Triton shaft tubes

[bcooke]

Question: How far does the propeller shaft tube protrude into the hull on a Triton?

I ask because I have something under an inch of clear tube for the packing seal hose to grip onto. There definitely isn't enough room to get a second hose clamp around the hose at that end. Mine also has a goop of something on the bottom side that make it a little "un-round" and there is a chip on one side. Am I going to be replacing the tube?...

BTW, the hose clamp was frozen so I just pried the shaft seal hose off with a screwdriver. It came off pretty easy.

And rather than open a new thread... anyone got a source for a Triton propeller shaft? 22"x 7/8"

What is the tolerance in the cutless bearing? Should the shaft at the engine end be able to move 1/4" side to side?

Might as well pick up that Idigo 3-bladed prop while everything else is being changed...

Engineless sailing has its appeal today.

-Britton

[Tim]

Question: How far does the propeller shaft tube protrude into the hull on a Triton?

Not far enough, in many cases. I had a similar issue myself. The tube was so short that the taper of the hull interfered with properly securing a hose for the stuffing box. I ended up having to replace the heavy-wall, fabric-reinforced hose that came with the stuffing box with a length of thinner-walled wire-reinforced exhaust hose, which is OK but I'll need to change the hose more often to prevent rusting of the wire.

Please use AWAB all SS-316 hose clamps for this and all clamping chores. They feature a solid band and all stainless construction, and are stronger, longer lasting, and more gentle on the hose than the typical perforated-band hose clamps. These clamps are worth the price.

Even with the thinner-walled hose, I could still only get one clamp on the stern tube; there was simply no room for another. Eventually, I'll replace the stern tube; it's easy to do. When I do, I'll extend it further into the boat for better clearance; another inch of length would do the trick. 2" would be luxurious.

... anyone got a source for a Triton propeller shaft? 22"x 7/8" ...

Try H&H Propeller or New England Propeller. These are the first two that come to mind. They can supply you with the shaft, couplings, packing boxes...whatever you need. Be sure to have your coupling--whether old or new--turned in concert with the new shaft to ensure that the face is perfectly square to the center of the shaft.

Any other shafting/propeller suggestions would be appreciated, in case someone has a "secret" source. I used H&H in the past, and the quality of the result is good, but I had some hiccups along the way.

What is the tolerance in the cutless bearing? Should the shaft at the engine end be able to move 1/4" side to side?

The nature of the hose-type packing box allows this sort of movement, but the shaft shouldn't be moving inside the cutless bearing. The tolerance inside the bearing is very close. The movement you are seeing (as I envision it) is not necessarily a problem, though the shorter the shaft, the less of this you should see.

But be comforted by the knowledge that the cutless bearing will not hold the shaft rigid and steady when the coupling is unbolted. Some slop at this point is inevitable.

[bcooke]

Thanks for calming me down. I was about ready to rip that stern tube out :-) Next year I guess.

You are right, the shaft doesn't (didn't?) moved radially in the cutless bearing but the forward end can be displaced a bit. In other words there is no side-to-side clunking in the bearing. The shaft does have some significant grooves in it that I would probably be fighting forever, plus I was a little unsure how how much to tighten down the prop puller before whacking it per the instructions. Since a little had no effect I tightened it a little more. Since a little more had no effect I used the long wrench handle to good effect. I think I went a little too far. After whacking the end again, the of the shaft end got a bit deformed... oops. Bronze ain't steel gorilla boy!

-Britton

[Tim]

OOPS! hehe...

[Figment]

I've given up on even using brass hammers when impacting bronze. The stuff is simply too malleable. Rubber/plastic or wooden mallets rule the day.

ok, fine, you got me. I use whatever I have lying around. Hammers, wrenches, rocks, etc... but I've learned to find a hunk of oak or something to use as a sacrificial piece between the steel hammer and the bronze whatever.

[bcooke]

Hmm... okay well the instructions that came with the puller said to tighten the bolt down on the end of the shaft and then whack the head of the bolt - not to strong, not too soft, just right.

I haven't used a puller before so I was just following instructions, silly me.

This puller looks like a C-clamp sorta with a face on one end that sits against the prop and on the other end is a bolt with a point ground into it. Tightening the bolt on the end of the shaft pulls the prop off - in theory.

I still have the shaft and prop in my basement. I have soaked it in PB -Blaster, applied heat, applied various amounts of force via a two pound hammer, and just left it under tension for a couple of days. The bolt has tightened up some so the prop might have moved but I can't discern any movement visually. The shaft is pretty scored and the end is a little mushed up from my first attempt so I am already committed to a new shaft. I am thinking I will order an Indigo prop - everyone raves about them and I was undoubtedly going to get one sooner or later - and just hang the current shaft and prop on the shop wall as a momento.

Now that I have some experience under my belt (you gotta break a lot of stuff before you get good at something) I can agree that bronze is too maleable to be whacking with anything of substance.

-Britton

[bcooke]

Please use AWAB all SS-316 hose clamps for this and all clamping chores

Are these the same ones that West Marine sells for $4.59 a piece?!
You are killing me...

H&H quoted me a new shaft at $375 and another $50 for mating the coupler to the shaft. I am going to order an Indigo prop. I just bought my first 5 gallon jug of epoxy. I am breaking the $1000 mark for the week and it is only Wednesday <sigh>. Oh, yeah, the the bill for the two new anchors and rollers I bought last month are sitting in my Inbox staring at me.

Why couldn't I learn to knit instead?!

Just venting, don't mind me... I love this stuff.

-Britton

[dasein668]

Are these the same ones that West Marine sells for $4.59 a piece?!
You are killing me...

Please, please... at least go to Hamilton Marine or similar outfit, and buy 'em by the box. Price drops to about 2.50 (depending on size of course).

Like these ones here.

[Tim]

Are these the same ones that West Marine sells for $4.59 a piece?!

Well, disregarding the fact that WM is the most overpriced store in the boating business, yes, those are the ones.

Nathan is right: stop shopping at WM and order from Hamilton, or other good outfits. Full boxes of clamps almost always make sense (10 to a box). It's just like buying epoxy: you have a boat full of hoses, and the clamps you need for the stuffing box will be the same size, roughly, as those required for all the 1-1/2" hoses on the boat. Slightly larger clamps can be used, so you don't need the exact size for each application (within reason).

You'll probably never need to replace these clamps, or at least not for a very long time. And when you do, or you add a hose, or you run into a fellow boater in need, you'll have spares on hand. Spares=good.

Alternatively, choose the much less expensive 304 SS Ideal clamps with the perforated band and the non-stainless screw, and enjoy replacing it in a couple years, as well as the hose because the clamp will have damaged the end.

Or don't replace it, like most folks, and be amazed when the clamps and hose fail "suddenly". I'd put cheap materials and neglect at the top of the list of causes for boat and engine-related failures and sinkings.

You are killing me...

Sorry, man! hehe...

I am a firm believer in using only the highest quality materials available for boat-related jobs. It costs a lot, but in the end it's nice to feel you've done all you can to make your boat safe and ready for anything.

My boat's worth $1000 in expensive clamps, if that's what it took (fortunately, it doesn't take that much in clamps...). Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish. Clamps are all that stands between your boat and the evil muddy black bottom (there...more of that "black" imagery!). I can't even imagine why anyone would use anything but the finest.

You need a metric socket to install these clamps (sockets are so much easier than a screwdriver). It's the size just below 5/16"...I forget the exact size. I picked up a junky T-handle tool with a variety of little sockets from the bargain bin at the hardware store, and use this exclusively for tightening hose clamps. A good nut driver of the correct size would be the best choice.

AWAB has a specific tool sold for this purpose, but it's too silly and pricey even for me, he who will buy any tool if it looks like it might be more efficient and convenient.

[Tim]

By the way, perhaps this will ease your clamping pain a bit.

Please disregard the oft-repeated nonsense, perpetrated by low-end books and many surveyors, that you should apply double clamps to each hose connection. There are virtually no requirements for this in any statute or standard, beyond those listed below.

Most hose nipples are not long enough to properly support a pair of clamps; in many cases, given the shortness of the nipple, double clamps can cause more harm than good. One quality clamp, properly applied to each fitting, is ample. Only use double clamps when the nipple is clearly long enough for such use; most are not. I maintain that a single quality clamp in the middle of a short hose nipple is more resistant to failure than a pair of normal clamps on the same fitting.

Double clamping is necessary in the following locations, however:

• 1. All exhaust hose connections
  2. Both ends of your fuel fill hose
  3. Both ends of your stuffing box hose, unless you physically cannot (and then one should probably reconfigure things to allow that final clamp...I'm being hard on myself here, since I have this exact situation.

[dasein668]

Alternatively, choose the much less expensive 304 SS Ideal clamps with the perforated band and the non-stainless screw, and enjoy replacing it in a couple years, as well as the hose because the clamp will have damaged the end.

Yeah, enjoy! hehe. I love how the screw on those things welds to the band with rust. Lots of fun.

[JonnyBoats]

I am a firm believer in using only the highest quality materials available for boat-related jobs. It costs a lot, but in the end it's nice to feel you've done all you can to make your boat safe and ready for anything.

Having used the best marine surveyor in the business, I can assure you that it did not cost alot.

In fact if I had used him sooner, it would have _saved_ thousands of dollars.

[Figment]

I know a number of guys who double-clamp, but their method has nothing to do with improving the hose's grip on the nipple.

They gently snug the clamp to the hose a few inches up from the nipple. It's not applying any pressure to the connection. It's there simply to be a handy spare when the primary clamp fails.

It's an interesting school of thought, particularly when one notices that these guys can never stomach the cost of buying good clamps, so they buy twice as many crappy ones.

[Tim]

That's an...um...interesting methodology. To each their own!

[bcooke]

I was having a bad day yesterday. My finances are a wreck.

Actually I use West Marine for the catalog more than anything. Their catalog has more pictures than Hamilton. If I find what I am looking for there then I know it exists somewhere and I can begin the search in earnest. They are also the only marine store near me other than the one that insists 304 stainless is the best around.

I did find the Hamilton clamps afterwards. Then this morning the yard owner where I keep my boat told me that since I was doing work for them I could order whatever I needed through their account as well. 40% off in most cases. I wish I had known that a day sooner. Then he took me around to their "lost" boat parts shed". In it I found a virtually new six foot propeller shaft that could be cut down and machined for my boat.

So no double clamps on the cockpit drains or other below-the-waterline connections? Kind of a moot point in my case since I am putting in seacocks for all of those connections "any day now".

And while we are looking at that picture of a shaft tube hose attachment with only one clamp should I mention the wire reinforced exhaust hose too?

I'll need to change the hose more often to prevent rusting of the wire.

. Is the replacement on some sort of schedule or do you have an intuitive feel for when that wire is getting too rusty? Of course I am giving you a hard time here. On my boat, the hose that came off was quite thick, on the order of half an inch wall thickness and reinforced with twine or something. Is that kind of hose readily available?

I was thinking the spare clamp idea had some merit until I remembered that both are installed at the same time and if one is corroded enough to let go then the other can't be far behind.

-Britton[/quote]

[Tim]

And while we are looking at that picture of a shaft tube hose attachment with only one clamp should I mention the wire reinforced exhaust hose too?

I'll need to change the hose more often to prevent rusting of the wire.

. Is the replacement on some sort of schedule or do you have an intuitive feel for when that wire is getting too rusty? Of course I am giving you a hard time here. On my boat, the hose that came off was quite thick, on the order of half an inch wall thickness and reinforced with twine or something. Is that kind of hose readily available?

Touche...though I'm the first to admit (as I did in my post a few above) that my stuffing box situation is not ideal. It needs to be addressed, which will require replacing the stern tube, so I'll put that on my list for next off-season, when I want to dismantle the shaft, prop, and coupling again anyway. Meantime, as always, I will continue to check and inspect it regularly--something made easy by my big cockpit hatch. Frankly, it's generally obvious when a wire-reinforced hose is beginning to fail. It tends to happen first at any bends, and also at the ends where the helix wire is exposed by the cut.

The thick-walled stuffing box hose is available. All new stuffing boxes come with a length of this hose. It is fabric-reinforced, with heavy wall thickness and reinforcement, normally 5-ply; it does not bend significantely, which makes it the best choice for this application.

My Lewis Marine catalog shows this hose as a replacement item for stuffing boxes, in a variety of inner diameters. It's not something you can find lying around at any old store, but most suppliers can get it, certainly if they stock any stuffing boxes at all. What size hose ID do you need? (Probably 1.5"...)

[dasein668]

Hamilton Marine actually did have some of that stuffing box hose just lying around a few years back when I rebuilt the existing stuffing box. It'd be worth checking, if Tim wasn't going to order some for you! hehe

[bcooke]

Yep, 1.5 inch diameter.

If I could find a donor I would be willing to supply a dozen chocolate glazed donuts...

-Britton

[bcooke]

Touche...though I'm the first to admit (as I did in my post a few above) that my stuffing box situation is not ideal.

You will have to forgive me. I would never suggest that your maintenance is anything less than stellar (or obsessive depending on your point of view).

Somebody laughed at me today when they learned I was installing seacocks on my cockpit drains. I never realized what a lonely path we travel...

-Britton

[Tim]

Somebody laughed at me today when they learned I was installing seacocks on my cockpit drains. I never realized what a lonely path we travel...

Prevailing "wisdom" seems to be that because your cockpit drains are always open, there is no need for seacocks.

The drains may always be open when the boat is unattended, but there still may be a need someday to close one or both off. An easy way to close off large holes through the bottom just seems common sense...apparently not.

The overall carefree attitude towards essential boat maintenance among much of the boating public is stunning--and frightening. People overwhelmingly think no more about their boat's condition than they do their car's...sometimes less. I can count on one hand the number of boats I've been on professionally over the years where I said, "gee, this is a nice boat and really well-maintained". Sad.

There are so many unnecessary insurance claims, mostly caused by neglect and lack of proper knowledge of seamanship (which includes knowing how to maintain a boat), that boat insurance rates are skyrocketing for all the rest of us. I'm all for boating being widely accessible to all people, but there is a high level of irresponsibility out there too, and no education.

[Tim]

Yep, 1.5 inch diameter.

If I could find a donor I would be willing to supply a dozen chocolate glazed donuts...

Consider it done.

Hamilton Marine actually did have some of that stuffing box hose just lying around a few years back when I rebuilt the existing stuffing box.

Hamilton's would be the one place I might expect to find that, since they do deal in a lot of stuffing boxes and actual boat-construction necessities.