New owner with questions 1959 #16

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Sailormanbigd
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Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

Hi everyone! Nice to have a resource like this for such an old sailboat. I just purchased 1959 #16 from a big guy who wanted a bigger boat. I’m bigger than him, but want a smaller boat. Anyway, the eBay listing suggested to replace the standing rigging and chain plates. What is the best source for this rigging? Is the 316 wire from Amazon (cheap) any good? Example 500 feet 1/8inch 1x19 for 85$. Is the crimp on collars good enough or do I need the big money swagged or swageless fitting? What size is recommended? 1/8”, 3/16”, or 1/4”. Back stay is split. The PO told me that the boat originally was a yawl but rear mast removed. The rigging has forestay with some galvanized chain and the split backstays has a few feet of rope on ends that attach to deck. I hope that’s because they swapped shorter mainmast of yawl rig with the taller sloop mast??? The boat is on the hard in Deltaville ,VA and I’m in central gulf coast of Florida so it’s a 13 hour drive to see/check boat. I plan a trip in March to work on it a bit and survey for needed repairs before heading south along Coastal Atlantic to end up somewhere closer and cheap to store/restore it before retirement cruising in 2 years.
The listing did mention foredeck softness so there is that. There is an A4 that was running 2 years ago when put up, and a 6hp Tohatsu sailpro new in the box with Mr Baldwin’s plans for creating outboard well, so I will have that as well. I think I would like to keep the A4 as the primary aux power source after sailing that is! The outboard for calm low wind where fuel economy is welcomed. I don’t like any motor at all period, but a back-up for the A4 is nice to have if it doesn’t create poor sailing performance or too much maintain experience keeping 2 motors running? The boat came with new in box electric auto pilot Simrad I think? The smaller one. I like the idea of wind vane autopilot but they are way too much$ for me. Never sailed a Triton but hear good things and not so good things? Points pretty good, can ghost along in light air, but has weather helm? The vids I have seen don’t appear to be using significant effort on tiller? Long winded post I know, sorry but I’m damned excited. I would like to change the ports from aftermarket plastic back to bronze if they are not too pricey? Anyone aware of original bronze or aftermarket bronze replacements that don’t cost a fortune. I think the bronze is sexy and salty and a much better fit for a 1959 classic! Well, thanks for being here and listening to my ranting. Feel free to give advice or comment as you like.
svMira
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Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by svMira »

Welcome here and congrats on joining the club. It is exciting to imagine one more of these boats getting and enthusiastic owner. Sounds like you got an oldie too, '59.
I'll let someone with more Triton knowledge and experience answer. I haven't touched my rigging yet, so I'll be interested in the info on this topic as well.
I completely understand the convenience and economics of the 'Baldwin Outboard' idea. But, I suffered for four years with an outboard on the back of my Tanzer 22 and I am so happy to have a thumping diesel with a prop way down low that never pops out of the water now. I'm guessing it will have to be a good pile of bills before get converted to putting a prop out at the end of my boat where it has a chance of jumping out. It is still a delight and surprise that I don't have to look backwards or hang off the back of the boat in order to get my engine going. It seems so 'civilized'.
I did some deck replacement under my mast step. It wasn't that bad a job. But, I'd done quite a bit of epoxy/glass work prior to that, so I was used to the process. In fact it seemed really easy to deal with a simple flat-ish area where I could just feather it out on all four sides. I think my only advice would be to not be chincy, just cut out the whole area back to good wood. don't make the smallest hole you need and then find that you have to keep making it bigger because it has seeped further than you thought. That way it is way easier to reuse the top layer, when you go to putting it all back together again.

And to note: Yes, my browser craps out every time I post or reply, but every time the post has actually been received and posted. I just need to reload the page by clicking on the question title. F5 just reloads my draft. So, I'm not sure if you or the one of the mods will pull down your duplicate threads.
Marvin - s/v Mira - 1971 Pearson Wanderer #174
svmira.ca
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atomvoyager
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Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by atomvoyager »

Welcome to the group and congratulations on your new boat. Once you get it rigged and launched and motor fixed
you can visit here in Brunswick on your way south and I can help you sort out a few things.

Rigging wire:
Everyone will tell you that you can't safely bend 1x19 stainless wire around a thimble and clamp with nicopress sleeve
because the wire could/will fail at the bend since it is not designed to bend that sharp under load or fail from
corrosion of the dissimilar metals in saltwater environment. But I've done it before on a jury rig during my first
circumnavigation and it never failed, probably because I used a very large thimble, oversized wire and three u-clamps.
My boat came with a 1960's era insulated backstay with 1x19 bent around large ceramic insulators and crimped with
nicopress type sleeves and it didn't fail either. I would not recommend you use the thimble/nicopress for anything
other than temporary rigging and it is going to look rough as hell if that matters to you. They make galvanized or
stainless wire of 7x7 for this type of attachment. Or splice the wire - but I doubt you are up for that at this point.

My Triton was originally fractional rig with 3/16" wire all around except 1/8" for jumper stays. I upsized to 7/32"
and converted to masthead. I use riggingonly.com for wire and fittings. Their prices seem better than most. I don't
know if amazon wire is crap or not but you don't want 1/8" anyway unless you need a small amount for jumpers.

Next time you visit bring a 100' tape measure and tell us the overall length of mast and if the headstay goes
all the way to the top or only 3/4 of the way in what's called a fractional rig. If the headstay goes to the top and mast
is not much shorter than 35' then you are good to go as sloop rig. Even if shorter, you can set it up as sloop and forget
installing a mizzen but light air performance will suffer. Don't worry about weather helm - if it gets hard to hold the
tiller in strong winds, just reef the main. You may already have a smaller main because of the original yawl rig so
probably won't have much weather helm without it anyway.

Ports:
I don't think you will find any "original" parts anywhere except from other Triton owners who have upgraded items and
want to give away or sell the old stuff. Tritons are cut up and scraped sometimes so you may find parts from them.

These may be close to the original portlights if not too large, though they are expensive and I haven't used any yet:

5" x 8" Oval Port P587

https://www.spartanmarine.com/all-produ ... ning-ports

I've used Newfound Metals ports of various sizes on other boats and they are good and maybe less pricey. You could
check dimensions on this one:

310B 3×10″ Rectangular Bronze Standard $249.95

https://newfoundmetals.com/product/rect ... ularbronze

I agree that plastic portlights aren't suitable. But for the large windows, or deadlights, I don't care for the
origanal bronze even though they look good, because they only have a 1/4" lip so are difficult to seal and keep
from leaking over time. They are also quite heavy and the coach roof would need some modification anyway to use
them with 3/8" acylic if you are not using original auto glass. 1/4" plexiglas is too thin and flexible to be
strong and its movement will break the seal on the narrow flange. Even though they may not look quite as good
I prefer to just bolt 3/8 tinted acrylic over the outside with no frames. I overlap them 1 1/8" so they
have strength and resist leaking. It's also the lowest cost option.

Motor:
Everyone will think having an A4 inboard and an outboard well is ridiculous, because of weight, space, labor, etc
but maybe it has some advantages at least for now. If you can't easily get the A4 running reliably you can leave it
in place and build the tilt-up well and use that. Then later you can decide to get the A4 running or remove it.
But the outboard well takes some skill and lots of labor to get it right so check with me for advice if not
sure how to proceed. Or temporarily add a retractable transom motor bracket and decide later on the A4 or
outboard well. I have a spare bracket here you can borrow or buy cheap if you want to pick it up on your next trip
north. You can send me a private message for my address and phone number. Marvin is right that the inboard will
perform much better than the awkward transom mount but as a temporary solution it will work and then just think
how happy you'll be to go back to inboard or outboard well after that haha. Actually, the outboard well with 25"
extra-long shaft is nothing like a transom mount in performance or ease of use. It has many advantages and
nearly as good performance as an inboard if designed right.
Sailormanbigd
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

Thanks for the good advice. Yes I had a 33ft Morgan outisland with a dead diesel and mounted an outboard bracket and 8HP high thrust Yamaha to it to bring it home. I know the pluses and minuses. The biggest for me was raising and lowering the tilt mechanism. It was hard to reach from cockpit. But surprisingly it pushed the boat at 3-4kn. I welcome an inboard as well but don’t want to be stuck due to motor probs. James, thanks for the offer of using or buying the outboard bracket. Such a great guy you are! Not many like you around I’m afraid (sad). But as my luck would have it the boat came with a brand new one never installed! The previous owner had planned all this and lost interest due to him needing a larger boat. I think smaller simpler is for me. Hell it took the better part of a day to scrub the deck of the 33! You think that the extra weight hanging from the stern will affect sailing ability greatly? I read somewhere that Pearson added extra weight/ballast to the later models? From7k to 8k? Or there about? I know loading the ends is not advisable due to hobby horsing? But a small outboard and fuel tanks? With internal engine still in place? The info on the rigging is exactly what I needed. Money is an issue for certain so I need all inputs to figure it out. Size of wire is first, thank you. I will likely perform jury rig repairs for the short term to get it south and to get to sail the old girl! He’ll probably most of the rig is original? So, it must not have been too bad or undersized right? What if the rope terminating the back stays is that new fancy dyneema stuff? Good to go then? Haha, so much speculation until I lay eyes/hands on her.
James you are a real peach offering to help me go over my new old boat in your home waters! Not at all familiar with your waters and area but I need the cheapest storage I can get! I jumped the gun buying this boat before retirement and can ill afford to pay hundreds a month for a boat only seldom used. Already I am feeling the pinch. I won this boat auction for$515 on eBay. Yes, I could actually make money selling the parts off it, but need, want a cruising part time livaboard bluewater capable sailboat, dam it. Lol. The cost to leave it on the hard is $465 for 3 months. Almost what I bought it for. I don’t know how long it’s gonna take to make ready for reliable delivery? Or when a good time to sail south would be from Deltaville? I’m thinking June? I would prefer free or very cheap Anchorage/storage lot tha I can get to reasonably easy. And safe. This is my biggest concern right now. The great deal can end up sucking the well dry before even getting a drink! So, even though I welcome your advise and offer
I need to get it to a cheap a place as possible. I have a tandem axle steel trailer with a 3500# 22ft sailboat on it and will research if it can handle 7k lbs of the Triton? Then I would have to sell the 22 and modify the trailer for the 2 more feet of extra draft? So. A lot going round my brain. Christmas don’t make it any easier, ha.
Hey, how do u post pics? Might help with ideas if u can see a bit of the subject at hand? I looked but don’t see any way to attach pics?
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atomvoyager
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Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by atomvoyager »

To attach a photo, when you are in the box where you compose the message click the "attachments" tab below and select the photo.

You don't need to worry about the slight decreased sailing performance from hanging the 6 hp outboard on the transom, at least in the short term.

When checking trailer specs, best to factor for 8,000lb displacement empty regardless of year.

IF you had a dyneema backstay you could use it but sounds like you are getting ahead of yourself. Hopefully you get to see the boat soon and begin sorting things out in person. You'll have to struggle with the winter weather up there for several months so don't know how much you can get done. June is OK but crazy hot in the SE including the Chesapeake. April may be a better time to sail if you happen to be ready. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Sailormanbigd
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

thanks again for sage advice. Sorry about the previous rant-I get that way sometimes-old and crotchety! I have taken some of the urgency out of the equation, signed up for 4 days overtime! That should cover storage for a while, and have some left over for repair materials.
SO, April it is then. Tentative of course. I figure I will not get to the boat until March as its just too cold for me to do much. Will mount the aux bracket and check everything over; standing and running rigging, hull integrity, rudder function, leaks, interior condition, look for treasures in the lockers-Would be nice to find a furler, the old port lights, etc. Oh, install batteries, and solar panel, charge controller, bilge pump, bimini, etc. Oh, not to forget new packing for prop stuffing box! Then if time allows launch and sail a bit? Otherwise will wait until April when I sail south. So now will try to post pics
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Sailormanbigd
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

try another?
s-l1600.jpg
Sailormanbigd
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

another? only will allow 1 at a time?
59 pearson triton 8.jpg
Sailormanbigd
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

more
59 pearson triton 2.jpg
Sailormanbigd
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

inside
59 pearson triton 7.jpg
Sailormanbigd
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

and more
59 pearson triton6.jpg
Sailormanbigd
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

still more
Attachments
59 pearson triton 3.jpg
Sailormanbigd
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

more
universal A4.jpg
Sailormanbigd
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

yet more
59 pearson triton 5.jpg
Sailormanbigd
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

so can the trained eyes of Triton owners detect anything amiss, unique, interesting, or suspect? I don't care for the pipe from the furnace where it is, covering the forward port? Does the rigging look cobbled? I know hard to see in pics. thanks for looking. To my eyes it looks pretty good? THe Atomic 4 looks better than others I have seen? etc
svMira
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:16 pm
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Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by svMira »

I like the engine cover as a heat shield, that's neat. I put a Dickenson diesel stove in my boat. It was quite a planning feat. You need to think about where to run the pipe inside, but also where it exits on the outside, both as far as wind/exhaust travel, and as far as working/moving about the boat with it hot and not. Also, the more pipe inside the boat, the more chance of collecting heat off of it. I used one of those laser thermometers in the boat to check the temperature of all the different surfaces as the stove was running and that gave me peace about the clearances I had around my stove and chimney. So, while it may not be the 'best' to run your chimney in front of the port, it might be about the best solution possible, all things considered. Having heat on the boat had made hanging out there a lot more fun early/late season. I've enjoyed it. But, I'm still getting to know mine.
Marvin - s/v Mira - 1971 Pearson Wanderer #174
svmira.ca
Sailormanbigd
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
Boat Type: Pearson Triton #16

Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

Marvin, thanks for the info regarding the solid fuel furnace. I never had one-Florida wouldn’t get a ton of use :D . Still, one old salt told me a long time ago to never remove something from a boat just add to it. So I stays. Besides as I get older I get cold easier. So the rest of the pics don’t garner more comments? How does it look? Any obvious problems?
svMira
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:16 pm
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Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by svMira »

Well, she's got character. A little TLC will bring a lot of life back. A clean, doing inventory, getting rid of the old stuff will tell you more than we will looking at pictures.

One tip: I use Evernote for recording notes. In there I have one called something like 'My boat', in which I have listed all the details I run across as I work on the boat. Part numbers, model numbers, measurements. It is really nice to be able to reference it when away from the boat. Everything from bilge pumps, line sizes, anchor chain type, etc. Anything that will help you when you are standing in front of a good deal in a shop... being able to check if it will actually fit is a real boon.

Obvious problems: If that boat was mine, I would make the same presumption of it that I've done with my Wanderer. All the wiring & electrical needs to be replaced. I had the same electrical 'panel' on my boat and it was scary (being nice). Between the wiring that had been added and edited over the years, I figured it was going to be better to just pull it all and start fresh. This increases my understanding of all the systems and reduces the number of places 'surprises' exist. And, as I was pulling stuff out of the boat there were more than a few. And mine was a freshwater boat.

Oh, there was one thing. Move your fire extinguisher from above your stove. That's the hottest place on your boat and above one of the three obvious places where a fire would break out (stove, galley, engine). I have yet to install my third fire extinguisher in the cockpit locker, but I plan to have three mounted... V-birth, opposite the galley and in a cockpit locker. I want one where I am, so I can take it to the fire. I don't want to reach through the fire to get to the extinguisher.
Marvin - s/v Mira - 1971 Pearson Wanderer #174
svmira.ca
Sailormanbigd
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:03 am
Boat Name: Panama Jane
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Re: New owner with questions 1959 #16

Post by Sailormanbigd »

good catch Marvin. Yes, if the furnace somehow flares up I wouldn't be able to get to the fire extinguisher! I am surprised no one has stated that a solid fuel furnace with a gasoline powered engine! Open flame is a good way to get a roaring fire if the fuel line leaks!? Yes, not real pretty or clean, but also not too bad for being on the hard for over 2 years either?
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