Internal//external ballast

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trintella495
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Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:57 am
Boat Name: Journey Bird
Boat Type: Trintella 29

Internal//external ballast

Post by trintella495 »

Hi Group,

I am now the owner of Triton #130. According to the list of difference in the National Triton website, the East Coast Tritons had external ballast until around hull #381? Mine is hull number 130 (or so the plate in the cockpit says) but she has internal ballast. So, either the list is wrong and Pearson made #130 with internal ballast, or someone glassed over the external ballast at a later point. Trying to figure out which.

Larry - SF Bay area
EC Triton #130
WC Triton #165
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Rachel
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Internal//external ballast

Post by Rachel »

Hi Larry,

There do seem to have been variations galore in the Triton. That said, I've never seen or heard of the variation of an "early" east coast Triton with internal ballast. I believe the keel was widened slightly in the later boats to accommodate the shift to internal ballast, so it would seem that the mold was changed at that time (and that the early keel would be too narrow to house the later, internal-style pig).

Of course anything is possible, but...

Here is one thing you could check: The external ballast Tritons have a "false keel" aft of the area where the ballast pig is attached. In other words, the "boat" itself is only around as deep as the top of the external ballast, and the ballast is bolted on (see photos below). The "false keel" is so called because it was glassed on separately, and is not really a structural part of the boat (although it does provide rudder gudgeon support).

So, say you have an early east coast boat wherein someone has glassed over the external ballast... well, then I would think the bilge aft of the ballast pig would still be shallow (i.e. say a foot deep vs. three+ feet deep) because it would not have been molded as part of the original boat. Conversely, on the later (internal ballast) east coast boats, the after part of the bilge goes right down to the bottom of the boat.

Here are a couple of copies of a photo of a pre-#382 east coast Triton with external ballast. On the second one I've added annotation. The "false keel" area -- outlined in red -- will not exist "inside the boat," so that's why I'm thinking that checking the after bilge may give you some good information.
false keel.jpg
false keel annotated.jpg
I'll be curious to know what you find!

Rachel
trintella495
Bottom Sanding Grunt
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:57 am
Boat Name: Journey Bird
Boat Type: Trintella 29

Re: Internal//external ballast

Post by trintella495 »

Thanks Rachel for the reply. In looking at the bilge area of the boat, it seems to be the shallow "false keel" type of bilge, not the deep one. What is in the false keel area? Air? Evidently someone just glassed over the lead ballast. It is delaminating from the lead in places, and the glass is rather thin, and you can push in the sides quite easily and hear water on the other side. Doesn't look like the original thick hull of the Triton. Also, it is worn down to the lead on the leading edge, and seems quite thin. Must be just glassed over. There are bolts in the bilge, 4 or 5 dead center down the middle. Are these the bolts that hold the keel on the boat? Don't seem big enough to hold on 3000 lbs. of lead. These pictures were a big help. Thanks.

Larry
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Rachel
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Re: Internal//external ballast

Post by Rachel »

Larry,

I believe the false keel was originally foam-filled. It's a bit more fragile than the rest of the boat, and it is vulnerable to damage if the boat is blocked under it. Cracks lead to water-logged foam, weeping, etc. So, quite a few owners over the years have addressed issues with it. From what I have seen, it takes some labor to fix it up, but is not highly delicate or precise work.

My guess would be that your ballast was glassed over more because it "seemed like a good idea at the time" rather than any real need. (In fact you could argue that it's better to put a small dent in the lead than to possibly breach the fiberglass covering on internal ballast.)

I certainly have a healthy skepticism of any older hardware, but that said I have never heard of an instance of the Triton keelbolts failing. I don't know that I would say that means it has never or will never happen, but if it were common it seems it would have been mentioned here on the forum on on the Triton list. The ballast does not have much depth in relation to the chord, so that must help (say, as compared to a "fin" keel.)

[quote="trintella495" There are bolts in the bilge, 4 or 5 dead center down the middle. Are these the bolts that hold the keel on the boat? Don't seem big enough to hold on 3000 lbs. of lead.[/quote]

I think the original Triton keel bolts may have been glassed over in the bilge? I also thought they were in two rows (i.e. port and starboard), not a single-file one. Maybe some external-ballast Tritoneers will chime in. Are you seeing actual metal fasteners? If so, I wonder if they were added later? And if that's true, I wonder if the originals are also still there?

Here are photos I took of the three bilge compartments of Triton #295 (external ballast). I don't have any particular reason to believe it had been altered from original, but I don't know for sure.
DSCF0054.jpg
DSCF0053.jpg
DSCF0055.jpg
Back to the subject of the false keel and repairing it: There have been some write-ups over the years. Here are a few links:

Triton #381 false keel repair

Triton #15 false keel repair

About keel bolts and ballast

You'll like this one; it actually gapes ;)
Joe Henson's former Triton, false keel repair

Triton #215 false keel repair

Rachel
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