Cost to revive a Triton?

[xroyal]

Was walking the docks at my local lake in Oregon last week, and very surprised to see a Triton for sale - $4000. Sadly, I'd guess she needs a total makeover. I suppose if she'd sell for $1000, it would still only be a small fraction of revival cost. I've converted a 17' fg express cruiser to a New England style, and know the love of doing it comes first. I can also guess that those who have done a skin out job on a Triton might not like to be reminded of the total cost. However, forgetting the cost of my labor (as usual), would anyone hazard a rough guess of a decent (not mint like Tim's, tho I'd Love it) cost to refit this classic? TIA for any responses!

P.S. My hobby in retirement has been building and tweaking computers. I anticipate the above project to be a load more challenging. Then too, perhaps my query comes under the heading of: if you doubt you can afford it , don't ask?

[Jason K]

1 arm + 1 leg + acquisition cost = Total restoration cost.

Actually, it (of course) depends totally on the boat and on the level of finish that you as the owner would find acceptable. If we're talking about a total gut job, then I have no idea.

Does it need a new engine? If so, then you?re looking at $5000 to $9000 right there.

When I bought Mojito, she needed (and needs) quite a bit of work. However, my interior is in pretty good shape. At least it was before I recored a side deck from below.

In order to do what I've done, which is bring to sailing condition and looking pretty good (hurricane damage excluded) I'd say I've spent about $3500 including tools, many of which I've had to replace. I bought the boat for $2500.

At the time of purchase, she had a wet foredeck and a wet side deck, deplorable decks, deck hardware, and woodwork. The topsides paint was fair, the bottom had about 2 seasons left, and the interior was pretty good - though very stock. It had a running Atomic 4, a good main, and tired headsails.

I hope that gives you some guide. However, it is truly impossible to even hazard a guess at the total cost. Things like the cost of repainting and repowering can be estimated, but so many things can't be generalized. The list of these expensive incidentals is endless; just browse this forum for the many repairs/upgrades have been done in the interests of restoration.

The good news is that you can tailor your restoration to your cost and budget. If you lack all self control when it comes to lavishing your boat, you could end up with your own Glissando. Or, if you start off with a good enough boat, you can enjoy a leisurely floating (and sailing) restoration like I am.

Apologies for the ramble. If you want a mathematical guide, triple your most outrageous estimate for cost and time and add $1000. And remember to have fun.

[bcooke]

The short answer is everything you have.

Really though, it all depends on what you want in the end. That $1000 Triton will probably continue to sail "as is" for quite a while. It is unlikely that you are going to fall through a mushy deck. Some people consider an engine optional or simply bolt an outboard bracket off the back or stern quarter. Sails will still continue to pull long after they have lost their shape.

You won't get many admiring glances but the basic boat will continue to float and move where you want in one way or another.

The Triton hull isn't going to fall apart anytime soon so it just depends on what else you want with it.

As for the cost of a Glissando type rebuild, just think of it as building an all new boat with a previously constructed hull. Seems pretty reasonable when you look at it that way.

But you want real numbers so:

I would make sure your rigging is in decent shape. Having a mast fall down can be a killer ~$1000.
Want a reliable inboard engine? ~ $0-1000.
Want a paint job that people won't laugh at from across the bay? ~ $1000-2000.
Want some decent though maybe used sails? ~ $500-2000 (depending on what comes with the boat).

Then let's just throw in a couple of thousand for random materials (epoxy, sandpaper, etc.) and those unexpected repairs.

I think you could keep a Triton going on little money if you could stand the shame and didn't want much beyond a floating, controllable boat.

For $10,000 you could have a safe and not-ugly boat.

For $50,000 you could have a very nice boat that could compete (in looks and function - not speed) with new boats that are much more expensive.

One last warning though. You might go into the boat thinking to do it on the cheap but somehow your original expectations morph into something totally different and much more expensive.

Those are my first thoughts anyway.

-Britton

[bcooke]

If you want a mathematical guide, triple your most outrageous estimate for cost and time and add $1000. And remember to have fun.

Very true. This guy obviously has this stuff figured out :-)

[dasein668]

Don't discount the amount of time required either.

The work that I did last winter on the exterior cost me about 750 hours, $4500 (much of that at wholesale prices), plus budget indoor storage, plus a generous helping of free labor from Tim.

That was just for a moderate exterior refit without a recore.

[Figment]

If you really want to know, I have this really gut-wrenching Excel file I can open.....

but make sure you REALLY want to know.

[dasein668]

Oh, I love gore. Bring it on!

[bcooke]

Oh, I love gore. Bring it on!

NNNNnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[bcooke]

Oh yes, we are assuming that labor is free. After all what else would you be doing with your time? Certainly not anything productive we hope!

$4500 for a single layer of glass and a quick paint job?!

I have a guy in the yard that will fair my hull and spray three coats of Awl-Grip on it for $2500. Now that includes labor so I assumed materials were in the $1000 ballpark. I am thinking about it. Seriously.

-Britton

[xroyal]

Thanks so much for the terrific replies in such short order!

Jason, can't speak to the engine, and think I'm afraid to ask given your estimate. Thanks so much for your contributions re your Katrina experience. Good, but scary photos.

Britton, floating it is, and not sure I could bear skippering such an eyesore. I do have an old Johnson 6hp LS which might nudge her when the wind is down.

Nathan, know it was a labor of love, but those are a lot of tough hours + $.

Figment, the Excel file sounds frightening!

Well fellows, sounds like maybe $5000 for a surface job and easily $10,000+ to go deeper. The more I consider the above, and the fact I'm 66 and want to be back on the water, it's the man hours (vs $ cost) that bothers me the most. Have to admit that something like the restored Commander (owner said almost $20,000 invested) and selling for $6500 sounds better and better.

Thanks again to all, and I'll keep lurking here for more of your wisdom. Like this salty site!

[dasein668]

$4500 for a single layer of glass and a quick paint job?

Wood, hardware, epoxy, sandpaper, epoxy, paint, primer, converter, reducer, epoxy, varnish, more hardware, various deck fittings, pulpit and stanchions, more sandpaper, lifelines... yeah, it adds up. It adds up fast. Fasteners, lexan, hatch hardware, vinyl graphics, 101 and 5200.

Don't underestimate how much fairing compound it takes to fill the weave on the decks of Triton.

That's a rough estimate, and includes the amount materials for the icebox, and some new hoses, clamps, control cables etc for the engine as well.

For just the "single layer of glass and quick paint job" I would estimate about 1750-2000 (sorry, no hard figures) if you include all the things that you don't think about. Tape! Oh, Tape! I forgot to mention Tape! I had probably 250 worth of tape costs.

[dasein668]

I have a guy in the yard that will fair my hull and spray three coats of Awl-Grip on it for $2500. Now that includes labor so I assumed materials were in the $1000 ballpark. I am thinking about it. Seriously.

Yeah, hull only? That's a cakewalk. Materials for a Triton with reasonable fairing requirements are probably in the 600 range.

[bcooke]

The more I consider the above, and the fact I'm 66 and want to be back on the water, it's the man hours (vs $ cost) that bothers me the most.

If sailing is what you want to do then ... IMHO... you are better off spending the money and getting a boat that is already in good condition. You have to really WANT to do the labor part to go the fix-it-up-myself route. Beyond routine maintenance or just one or two fix-up things the economics just don't work on an old boat. Unless, the customization is really worth a lot to you, you can probably find what you need by shopping around without going through all the work.

For others, it is the planning, obsessing, problem solving, the mistakes that you learn from, the ability to have a boat perfectly customized to your whims, and yes, the fun of grinding away, hour after hour that makes the big projects worth while.

-Britton

[xroyal]

Nathan and Britton: Uncle! I'm duly scared about getting into that old hole in the water.

I spent a year in the comfort of my garage just remodeling that much less complicated 17' fg express cruiser. I loved every dirty minute of it, always turning around over and over to witness what I'd done each day. I was proud as a peacock the day I launched her into SF Bay, which she rode like a champ. I tried not to bust my buttons when other boaters sent their compliments. But, I was 45 then, 66 now.

There is a story in my local paper today: "Very smart kids' brains mature later". I'm still waiting, but perhaps I learned a lesson today about fooling with such projects at my age. I'm now finishing remodeling my 6th home. It's time to play! Thanks!

Think Figment will release his bombshell budget?

[Figment]

though I update the spreadsheet fairly regularly, I keep the running-total on a separate sheet, so I only see it when I'm feeling adventurous.

[dasein668]

suffice to say that the last time I looked, the total was well over 10 times the amount I paid to purchase the boat in the first place.

I just hope you paid less for your boat than I did for mine! 80K... YIKES!

[Tim]

All of these reponses are spot-on, but in the end each individual will have their own desires, requirements, and expectations.

Some people might not care about anything, including looks, function, or safety. For these folks (none of whom probably populate this forum), the $1000 Triton represents a boat ready to go as is. Obviously I don't agree with this particular approach, so we'll leave it there.

Other people might wish to take an old boat and make her into something special, rationalizing that they will end up spending less in the end for a boat that is customized to their own personal tastes and needs than they could if they bought an existing, newer boat. This is my personal approach. I like the old boats in terms of looks, shape, and sailing qualities, but to me each old boat is only a blank canvas, awaiting the rebuilding and rebirth that would make her mine and mine alone.

While I admire the old designs, their interior and systems executions, particularly after 20-40 years, tend to lack charm, character, and quality. You can't buy a new boat that looks like the old boats (unless you're talking high-end semi-custom, of course), so to me, it makes sense to save a nice old hull and make the boat into something that I want.

This approach tends to lead to overabundant expenditures, but in the end the overall cost is still far, far lower than buying a new boat custom-outfitted to my standards. Spending $40,000 to completely rebuild and re-outfit an aging Pearson Triton may seem insane, but I challenge anyone to find a less expensive way to end up with a custom boat that meets my individual needs. Fact is, it doesn't exist. I comfort myself with the knowledge that I have yet to step aboard any boat--ANY boat--that I didn't feel could benefit from certain improvements to satisfy my taste and needs. So even if I were to spend $40,000 on a boat in good condition, I'd still find a need to reupholster the cushions, or add new canvas or sails, or repaint this or that, or what have you.

Then there is an in-between approach, one that has fewer expectations, less requirement for top-end equipment at all levels, and more willingness to reuse older hardware and equipment and so forth. This is a common approach, and an effective one for many people. This includes "sailing" restorations that take place over a number of years, rather than the all-out bare-hull type restoration that I favor myself. For this sort of restoration, the costs can be spread out over a longer period of time, and certain expenses can be avoided once one gets acquainted with the workings of the boat, thereby determining what works as is, and what might benefit from replacement.

One can spend as much, or as little, as one wants. There is a temptation among many to settle for substandard equipment and installation/construction practice in order to save money; this is a bad approach, and one that always ends up costing more in the end. I feel that doing jobs oneself should not be license to use subquality materials, or to do a shoddy job; rather, the free labor should encourage the use of the highest quality materials available, which ultimately leads to a better end product and greater personal satisfaction. One can have a budget, and stay within it, but that doesn't mean doing every job on the cheap. Search for value, but don't be cheap.

There's a saying that it's always less expensive to buy someone else's improvements. This is very true, as long as those improvements meet your own classification of quality and need. So in some cases, it surely makes sense to spend more up front for a boat that is ready to go, according to your own standards, with little or no additional expenditure required. This is particularly true if you just wish to go sailing, and don't seek the fun (and pain) of a project as part of the experience.

[Tim]

I have a guy in the yard that will fair my hull and spray three coats of Awl-Grip on it for $2500. Now that includes labor so I assumed materials were in the $1000 ballpark. I am thinking about it. Seriously.

That's a good price. The going rate for yard-produced Awlgrip jobs is anywhere from $125/lineal foot to $250/lineal foot. So he's going to do it for under $100/ft.

Before you jump into this, I would check some references, to make sure he will do a good job for you. $2500 is a good price if the job is good, but if he cuts corners, or does a poor job, it's not worth half that. I'd find out exactly what he promises to do, to. A quality finish paint job is all about the prep, so if he does a minimal prep job--or, worse, an insufficient one entirely--you could have a disaster on your hands. Improper surface preparation could lead to actual coating failure in a month, or a year, or in three years.

If you are satisfied with his bona fides, then you'll be hard pressed to beat the price. He may well be the guy for the job, but I'm always wary of this sort, myself. So be sure to check out his work first.

[xroyal]

suffice to say that the last time I looked, the total was well over 10 times the amount I paid to purchase the boat in the first place.

I just hope you paid less for your boat than I did for mine! 80K... YIKES!

10+:1 ex labor. Wow.

I was afraid I was treading in sensitive territory with this thread. Figment, sure sorry if I opened any $ wounds.

It's been quite some time since I was constantly running down to West Marine in Sausalito for teak, brass cleats, paint etc. Hence, I'm not totally naive about marine parts costs, just far out of date according to the above. Once again, I'll now be looking for that needle in a haystack that's already updated, with me doing some cosmetics/personal preferences.

Remain grateful for the input!

John

[bcooke]

10+:1 ex labor. Wow.

I am pretty sure Nathan is being hypothetical. I know he paid in the $8k ballpark (as did I) so if he had invested ten times that amount he would have hit the $80k mark. If he has indeed spent $80k on his boat then someone should slap him.

I think Mike (Figment) spent more like $1-2k to purchase his boat so that ten times formula seems about right. That is about what I have in my boat at this point too. ($10-20k) and I haven't started painting yet.

If you are satisfied with his bona fides, then you'll be hard pressed to beat the price. He may well be the guy for the job, but I'm always wary of this sort, myself. So be sure to check out his work first.

Oh yes, I am trying to get a look at some of his work but there hasn't been anything in the shop when I have been around yet. I wouldn't commit until I see what he can do first.

The $2500 was his opening negotiation price. He was trying to nail down some work during the slow winter season. My thinking is that the weather really impedes my progress in the winter so getting a second job at the local 7-11 and letting this guy paint during the winter (in his heated indoor shop) might be a better use of my time. Depending on what I see of his work I will likely do at least some of the hull prep over the summer and leave just the application for him. That means I can negotiate an even lower price. I would prefer to say that I did the whole paint job but I am just trying to avoid having the boat sitting for a couple of months with limited or no progress being made. I still have the deck to do so I won't avoid ALL the fun.

Britton

[xroyal]

Tim, we were evidently posting at the same time, so missed your post this AM. You sure summed it up well. I particularly liked the point about the older interiors. There's no accounting for each person's taste, and I don't like the dark feeling in some oldies, too much dark wood below. Might be more acceptable if more natural light available. I'll go for lighter bulkheads, cushions, etc and keep some nice wood trim.

Britton, I'm sure we'd all like to all of our own work, but, I agree, sometimes it helps to have qualified paid help which frees one to do the things he knows and enjoys doing best. I've finished off my attic, but I'd sure rather have a pro mud all that sheetrock fast while I'm building something else. Good luck with that job!

[dasein668]

If he has indeed spent $80k on his boat then someone should slap him.

Oh, I've been slapped. But not for that.

No, Britton is right. If I had to add up everything I've spent on projects I'd guess I'm at about 6.5K or so. Much of it last winter.

[Figment]

right, my total is for total cost of ownership, including mooring, storage, boat-specific tools, building a shed (twice) etc. If I were to break out what I've spent strictly on materials for improvement projects, I'd peg it somewhere around 5-6k.

[Tim]

I will likely do at least some of the hull prep over the summer and leave just the application for him. That means I can negotiate an even lower price. I would prefer to say that I did the whole paint job but I am just trying to avoid having the boat sitting for a couple of months with limited or no progress being made. I still have the deck to do so I won't avoid ALL the fun.

Just don't make the mistake of painting the hull too early in the process. Get your deck work and interior work done (at least the heavy and nasty stuff) first. It's no fun tiptoeing around a new paint job while you complete work with heavy or sharp tools, or lumber, or what have you. It's far better to wait till nearly the bitter end for the pretty stuff.

[xroyal]

It seems apparent that the $ cost of the revivals wasn't as high as one might have thought. Tho I'm not asking for same now, I probably should have also asked how many man hours folks invested. In any event that's a moot point for me as I've decided to look out for currently usable boats.

FWIW, I live very near Klamath Lake, biggest lake in Oregon, near 30 miles long. It is one of the shallowest too, much of the bottom only 6' away. There is a very active YC during a very short sailing season. Since my girlfriend of 12 years died last year, I'm a little torn between getting a boat here or returning to the SF Bay area where there are boats aplenty. I'm seriously considering living parttime with my sister in SF, and the balance on a boat in Sausalito, especially as the season is so much longer there, warmer too! Time will tell.

John

My signature derives from what my old SF sailing companion would say each time we cut the motor, and the wind kicked in - always a magical moment to me.

[bcooke]

Just don't make the mistake of painting the hull too early in the process. Get your deck work and interior work done

So are you saying that I will never get that far before next winter? Well, thanks for the confidence mister! Hehe.

Really though, I know.

I won't be finished with the interior this winter though I hope to be a good ways through it. The decks should be ready for paint if not painted this fall. I will probably have some paneling and galley work to complete next spring. Put it this way, I should be a little further along than Dasein was (interior wise) when she was painted by next winter. If I am still using the cockpit for an epoxy mixing station next fall then I won't schedule the paint job.

John, I lived in Grants Pass for five years before moving to Portland for another five. Cruel fate construed to drop me here in Massachusetts. I hear SF is a great place to sail but it is very different place from Klamath county!

It seems apparent that the $ cost of the revivals wasn't as high as one might have thought

Well, it is certainly a more expensive hobby than say knitting :-) My estimate of $10k+ includes a $3500 Monitor windvane still in the box and a few other big pricetag items that not everyone would duplicate. I think Nathan and Mike have a pretty reasonable materials estimate to go by.

-Britton

[xroyal]

Britton, I lived in Marin County (Greenbrae) for 15 years before I kicked the corporate habit, and escaped to a quieter lifestyle. A forest in SF is made out of telephone poles, and you and I know what it means in Oregon. Lake of The Woods is about as close to my old haunt in NH (Lake Newfound at Bristol) as I can find.

Forgive all my talk about $ cost for these essential toys. In the interim, I should probably tune up my Glaspar 12' sailing dinghy, hull #1. She's built like a fg tank with heavy mahogany trim, 70 lb daggerboard and a 17' fg mast. Believe she was used mostly in class races in San Diego.

John

Edit: The Glaspar title shows 1952 yr model. Out of curiosity I checked Google, and found that Owens-Corning built the first fg-reinforced plastic hull boat in 1944.

[windrose]

Interesting thread..... I admit to having a cigar box I put all the boat receipts in but I have never had the nerve to total them all up. Maybe after I sail her a few more years.

[Tim]

I admit to having a cigar box I put all the boat receipts in but I have never had the nerve to total them all up...

Nah, don't bother. Why detract from your fun? Keep them hidden where they belong, and live in a blissful state of denial--like me.

Besides, (repeat after me): What the boat wants, the boat gets!

[bcooke]

Interesting... yes.

Boy, was I over optimistic in my time plan :-) Deck and hull paint next year. How is that?

-Britton

[Rachel]

Boy, was I over optimistic in my time plan :-) Deck and hull paint next year. How is that?

-Britton

And you thought this thread was safely tucked away...

Can you edit the year on that post? ;-)

--- Rachel

(Who's not actually getting anything done, but thankfully posted no claims.)