Keel fairing materials

[Figment]

The deadwood portion of my keel has always had these little weepy spots here and there. Last fall, I ground away a couple of the worst spots and opened a couple of cracks, figuring that the moisture would find its way out over the winter.
Here we are, roughly eight months later, and the weeping continues.

I had some time on my hands yesterday, so I went a little nuts with the grinder. Through a layer of whitish fairing compound, through a layer of creamy colored fairing compound, down into a heavy layer of that blue chalky stuff that Pearson used as an all-purpose goo. You know.... the stuff that smells like cow dung when you grind away at it.... lovely.

Beneath this blue chalky stuff, I discovered a layer of soft green foam, which turned out to be the source of the moisture. Completely saturated, yielding water under pressure like a sponge. A wide chisel removed much of this material with very little effort to reveal the solid 'glass construction beneath.

What the heck is this green spongy stuff? Anyone here familiar with "floral foam"? Very similar texture.
Have I undone a previous owner's botch, or an original-construction element?

[bcooke]

"When you peer too long into the Abyss, The Abyss begins to peer back at you..." (or something like that... Nathan?)

Mike, put that grinder down. You need to launch your boat soon and you really don't want to know what lurks in the deep dark portions of your boat.

I have heard rumors of foam in the deadwood but that is an early model detail so I am not more familiar with it. I think I remember Tim commenting on the foam before so I am sure he will give you a meaningful answer.

I guess this means your decks are finished?

-Britton

[jhenson]

This sounds like the same stuff that I ripped out of the inside of the false keel section on my boat to expose the keel bolts. Man, can this stuff hold water!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jrhenson2/si ... keel-1.jpg


After a year of being exposed to the gaping hole of the torn outer skin on this keel section, it still seems to hold water way back toward the gudgeons where I couldn't reach to remove it. The smell of it when I peeled back the side of the keel was nasty. I guess this was used to form the mold for this area.

Joe

[dasein668]

"When you peer too long into the Abyss, The Abyss begins to peer back at you..." (or something like that... Nathan?)

Me? No, I never said that. It was Nietzsche. I believe the quote begins with "If."

[Figment]

No, this means I ran out of dynel and Jamestown was backordered.

This foam may be the same material that was used to form the blank for the deadwood, but it's definitely not the blank itself. I didn't dig that deep. I stopped when I hit solid glass.

I forgot to mention: This existed only on one side of the keel, and then as an asymmetrically "swollen" area, that I presume was intended to fair the lead ballast back to the rudder. I basically ground/chiseled the starboard side down to the point that it roughly matched the port side.

I plan to visit other on-the-hard Tritons in the area to see if I can get a feel for what the proper shape should be. Until then, I'm wondering if this material was applied to the starboard side as some sort of half-assed "improvement", or if its absence on the portside indicates some likely past damage which was simply ground smooth instead of being filled/repaired.

[bcooke]

I forgot to mention: This existed only on one side of the keel, and then as an asymmetrically "swollen" area, that I presume was intended to fair the lead ballast back to the rudder

Now that is interesting... wierd actually. I guess it was the nearest material at hand when the supervisor started yelling (in Portugeese naturally) about the poor fairing job.

I am glad you are not digging into the true deadwood. That is the wrong road for this time of the season.

Me? No, I never said that. It was Nietzsche. I believe the quote begins with "If."

You are correct, it was Nietzsche (and undoubtedly begins with "If" as you say). I mentioned your name because I thought you, if anyone on this forum, would know it. By the way, I have been to your (Nathan's) website several times trying to understand the meaning of "Dasein". My eyes keep going blurry and my lips start trembling around the third sentence of your detailed explanation. It is me, not your explanation. I am afraid there is no hope for me. Not that it matters because the idea of my "being" is under serious question anyway...

After a year of being exposed to the gaping hole of the torn outer skin on this keel section, it still seems to hold water way back toward the gudgeons where I couldn't reach to remove it. The smell of it when I peeled back the side of the keel was nasty. ...

So what does one do with this predicament? Remove all the foam or just cover it back up? And speaking of covering it up... I am going to get in trouble for these wild tangents... Nathan, your website mentions your entire foredeck being wet and the re-core is being postponed. Then I read about laying dynel over the whole deck to repair the awful gelcoat. Does this mean your foredeck is still saturated? Sorry Mike, I am obliterating your thread. My entire life is about this disjointed these days as my own launch date approaches.

So, Mike, when is your launch date scheduled?

-Britton

[Tim]

Beneath this blue chalky stuff, I discovered a layer of soft green foam, which turned out to be the source of the moisture. Completely saturated, yielding water under pressure like a sponge. A wide chisel removed much of this material with very little effort to reveal the solid 'glass construction beneath.

I forgot to mention: This existed only on one side of the keel, and then as an asymmetrically "swollen" area, that I presume was intended to fair the lead ballast back to the rudder. I basically ground/chiseled the starboard side down to the point that it roughly matched the port side.

Very interesting. Given that you found the blue Pearson chalk stuff in your explorations, I have to say that it sounds like an original installation rather than a repair later on down the road.

It's sort of hard to picture the "swollen" area of which you speak, so maybe there is other evidence to support this being a repair rather than an original condition. Or perhaps it's an ill-fated attempt to deal with a failure/separation of the false keel glasswork (as seen in Joe Henson's boat) over the years?

The false keels fit quite poorly, from my experience, and tend to have a sort of concave shape, top to bottom. (In other words: they are total junk that, against all odds, manage to hold on for 40+ years.) Maybe this gunk was simply a fairing for that area.

I haven't run across anything similar in my travels, and have so far only seen the blue chalk stuff on the interiors. As we have seen, though, there is much evidence in various boats of the closest material at hand being slapped in place for one use or another. Got to get the boats through production and out the door, dontcha know.

I'm gonna stick with a production anomaly, given the similar nature of the materials you uncovered. The early production techniques left much to be desired, and this sort of thing is not out of character at all.

[Tim]

My eyes keep going blurry and my lips start trembling...

Britton, I warned you not to sleep next to open containers of acetone, but I guess you didn't listen. Typical.

I am afraid there is no hope for me.

Well, most of us came to that realization some time ago, but we didn't have the heart to tell you.

I am going to get in trouble for these wild tangents...

Careful, or I'll demote you back to "Bottom Sanding Grunt"!

[dasein668]

You are correct, it was Nietzsche (and undoubtedly begins with "If" as you say). I mentioned your name because I thought you, if anyone on this forum, would know it. By the way, I have been to your (Nathan's) website several times trying to understand the meaning of "Dasein". My eyes keep going blurry and my lips start trembling around the third sentence of your detailed explanation. It is me, not your explanation. I am afraid there is no hope for me. Not that it matters because the idea of my "being" is under serious question anyway...

Hehe. I have to admit that I did look the quote up before I posted?I was about 85% sure it was Nietzsche when I read it but... Didn't want to seem a complete fool... When I first read your post, though, I didn't connect the "hey you idiot you were a philosophy major" part of the subtext and was trying to figure out when I had looked too deep into the Abyss...

Don't answer that....

[dasein668]

I am going to get in trouble for these wild tangents...

Careful, or I'll demote you back to "Bottom Sanding Grunt"!

Tim, Tim... that's so petty! Better to just give the boy an avatar... I'm thinking something like this:



or if that's too harsh, maybe just this one:

[bcooke]

I will save you the trouble with the avatar. Considering my current credit card bills boosted to the stratosphere by my ever hungry boat, it seems appropriate.

Thankfully, with my roomate leaving (internet was on their dime) and the fact that I am trying very hard to spend 2-3 months downeast before getting a real job and re-entering society, my internet connection is being shut down and I will have to use public facilities to communicate in the future. That should reduce the number of unnecessary posts on this forum.

Admit it though. You are going to miss me a little bit :-)

And be warned, there is going to be a grungy looking Triton with a faded "seafoam" (aka "seasick") green hull lurking in a harbor near you. Don't feed the crew or he might never leave...

-Britton

[Tim]

Gee, Britton, I hope you still manage to check in from time to time! I'd hate to have to start giving Nathan an extra hard time to make up for your absence.

And be warned, there is going to be a grungy looking Triton with a faded "seafoam" (aka "seasick") green hull lurking in a harbor near you.

I am counting on it!

[Figment]

So, Mike, when is your launch date scheduled?

Now THAT'S a question for the ages. Nietzsche can bite me!

;p

[dasein668]

So, Mike, when is your launch date scheduled?

We might ask the same of someone else here, Britton... hehe

[bcooke]

July 1 or death!

Now THAT'S a question for the ages. Nietzsche can bite me!

Ouch!
Keep on peering into the abyss and you will learn...

Actually, I drilled some holes and ground out a section of my forekeel today. Luckily, the defect was minor and limited to a repair gone bad. It could have gone the other way though.

Just put a stick on Figment and go for a ride. If the lady wants the boat in the water who are you to deny her? Especially if she is happy with the bucket for a head. Any woman that can accept that is a keeper. Paint, smaint. Engine smengine. All those things are optional. If my A-4 didn't roar to life and then purr like a kitten after it's three year slumber and altogether too much tinkering, I was going to drag an aluminum skiff around with me as my yawl boat. Thankfully it didn't come to that but considering how the rest looks it really wouldn't have made it any worse.

Really, Mike, I am going up country where all the Tritons are freshly painted and varnished. It would be nice knowing that there are a few "working class" boats out there too.

-Britton

[Figment]

Okay, so I stopped by a few local yards to observe keel shape on other Tritons.

Oh
My
Gawd.

These keels all looked alike, and they looked NOTHING like mine. It really is absurd.

So I did some more chiseling and grinding. The best I can figure from the evidence at hand is that the false keel (deadwood) was installed kinda cock-eyed, skewed to port. Efforts to quickly resymmetrize (how's that for inventing a word!) things on the starboard side by adding some filler appear to have gone overboard.

The final remedy may wait until after (what's left of) this season, but at least I have a better understanding of the problem.