Sabre 30 (and Jason's boat shopping thread)

[Jason K]

I figured that with my luck, I need my own thread to document the tribulations of my boat shopping experience. I'm having fun, but it's more stressful than buying a house.

So, does anyone know much about the Sabre 30?

Here's what I know: They are built in Maine. They are sailboats.

I have heard that they are robustly constructed and sail well. They are not common on the Gulf Coast, but as they are built just north of Portland, I thought some of you would have some experience with the boats.

I've been aboard a Sabre 28 and it seemed very nice (though the sidedecks flexed quite a bit). One feature I did not care for was the aggressive slope on the cabin top. You had to brace your feet against the handrail to keep from sliding off. Do all Sabres have such a pronounced slope?

Click here for the Yachtworld listing

[Duncan]

Jason, I don't know much about Sabres, other than the general warm feeling that you seem to have picked up. I've (so far) never heard anyone say anything that would contradict that.

This is a bit "off the wall" as an alternative, but I think these boats are very under-rated: Paceship Chance 32/28. They have a dual character - full bore IOR ocean racer, and one of the best interior arrangements I think I've ever seen on a 32 footer (since you were attracted to the space of the Catalina). If you find one with the racing package, you get the works - baby stay, racing spar, recessed tracks in the deck, more winches than you can count, etc. Meanwhile, there's a dinette, pilot berth, quarterberth and a nav station, all executed very nicely, to my way of thinking. I think this is a very cruisable boat, despite the racing heritage. The only thing I don't like is the higher freeboard, but it's not that bad, it's actually quite a handsome boat.

I did hear a story of one on the way back from Bermuda that got beat up a bit, and suffered some bulkhead damage. Considering the waves they were falling off, though, and the weather they reported, I'd say it was more of a testimony to quality than an indication of major problems.

Anyway, this guy is way ready to sell - the price has dropped twice since I noticed her last fall, and if I didn't have two boats already...;

And, as Monty Python would say, now for something completely different:
Cape Dory 30 ketch. Considering the pedigree of the boat, the fact this one is well-equipped and that it has new sails and rigging, it certainly seems to offer quite a solid value?

[Tim]

Sabres enjoy a good reputation for good reason. They are solidly built and tend to age very well.

The "classic" Sabres from the 70s and 80s, like this Sabre 30, all share many of the same characteristics in terms of appearance, build technique and quality, and performance. My favorite is the Sabre 34 MK 1, which shares the same overall "Sabre look" as the 30, but is a bit more drawn out and with a nice sheerline and transom/counter profile.

These Sabres are built with traditional techniques--solid hull of polyester/mat/woven roving, Spartan seacocks, good quality hardware, balsa-cored deck, and a pretty straightforward teak interior. The craftsmanship is good. No boat is perfect, but there aren't any particular issues specific to these Sabres. They are built better than most boats of the day.

I think that they command a bit of a price premium for what they are, but that doesn't mean that they aren't really worth it. In general, you'll pay more for a used Sabre, but you also usually need not worry about any serious structural problems, at least not as a general rule.

Of course, each and any individual boat needs to be evaluated on its own merits, or lack thereof.

The interiors are simple, usually with oiled teak bulkheads and teak trim everywhere, but feature nice materials that can be restored if they're looking a bit tired. They're not overly "plastic-y" inside, though there are some molded components like on most production boats. Most 20 year-old Sabres may need typical upgrades, like upholstery and such.

Sabres of this age do have quite a bit of crown to the cabin trunk. The tradeoff is lower cabin trunk sides and topsides that are not overly high, both of which contribute to a generally sleek look; but the crown is required to acheive decent headroom, just like the arguably ugly doghouse-type bumpups on Tritons and other boats of the 60s.

The boat in the listing to which this all refers looks to have had some nice upgrades fairly recently--furling gear, Max Prop, ST-60 instruments, replaced diesel, etc. Assuming all of this is in good condition and that the workmanship was properly done, these can be nice features to have.

Overall, it's hard to beat 80s vintage Sabres for just general goodness. They're not flashy, but they're solid and sound, and decent performers. No Sabre really ever burned up the racecourse*, but they will return decent performance for their rating.

*The exception being one specific 1970s vintage Sabre 28 that used to be around here (in the 70s) that had been custom-fitted with a Sabre 34 keel and mast. Coupled with a skilled skipper, she was fast in the day.

[Al]

I used to own a Sabre (a 32) and one of the great advantages of owning a used Sabre is that there is a fellow at the factory whose job it is to help out the owners of boats no longer under warranty. He can tell you where the thingambob that just died was bought, and maybe even sell you one (at a reasonable price), or tell you what a good replacement might be. They can usually access the production records for your boat. There is a very active Sabre list on Yahoo groups. I now own a boat built by a company that no makes sailboats; it makes a huge difference.

[Jason K]

I just got off the phone with the broker. The boat doesn't sound too bad - I may go take a look at it.

In the meantime, I can dream: Click here (Bristol 40)

[Jason K]

Catalina 30 update.

The broker sent me the email thread below. My response is the last email. The arrogance and duplicity in the owner's email set me off. I thought I would share:

As I mentioned, the customer did his own Survey. Some of his findings
that appear below, may be arguable and although individual items as a
whole would not normally result in rejection, the totality of items
caused him to cancel his offer.

In the meantime, I have had another inquiry and am waiting for the
prospect to advise me if he is coming to see the boat.

Items in his findings:

1. The cockpit instrument indicating the battery charging (alternator)
was barely off the zero. So we were unable to determine if the batteries
were being charged. The battery condition meter at the chart table
indicated Battery #1 in the red and Battery #2 in the green. We set the
battery selector switch to #2. By the way, the fuel gauge started to
work
about a half hour into the cruise.

2. Autopilot not functioning. Unable to put belt on while motoring.
Located extension wire in lazerrette, but when plugged in, had no
power. Also, cannot close lazerette while wire is plugged into the
unit.

3. Speed and Depth instruments inoperable. (Knew about depth in
advance.)

4. Prospect complained that we had a spinnaker advertised, but no
spinnaker gear on board or installed.

5. Loran/GPS at chart table inoperable

6. Head not working properly. When thru hull was open, no matter which
setting is on the pump, water flowed into the bowl and overflowed.

7. Oil pan heavily corroded and needs to be replaced. (This statement
came from Dennis Mayhew, who inspected the engine.

8. Significant corrosion on engine. Fan belt was hitting a hose and
cutting it. Had to tie off the hose.

9. Manual indicated engine top of 3200 RPM. Could not get over 2200
RPM

10. Numerous large hard gelcoat blisters

11. Bottom edge of rudder separating, possible water intrusion

12. Wheel moves aggressively to port while under way. Necessary to
constantly keep pressure in order to hold coarse

13. Pedestal break non-operational. Kept pressure no matter which way
it was turned

Tim, Please advise if you are going to address any of these issues and
when, so we do not run into same problems with future buyers who will
probably have a surveyor look at the boat.

Alan
(The broker)

Greg and Alan,

Here is what I have to say about the "survey":

1-The batteries are brandnew and in great shape. Chances are that you started on shore power so there was no major drain on the batteries.
Secondly, if you had loaded up the electrical system by turning on all the lights and the cabin fan you would have seen that the needle would not go below zero. Added to that the tach gets its rpm from the alternator so if it is not putting out then the tach would read zero with the motor running.
Not sure about the battery monitors and why they read incorrectly but they are worthless anyway as they read voltage and even a nearly dead battery will show in the green but will not have enough amps to do anything.
Regardless, next chance I get I'll head down there and put a meter on the alternator and verify.

2-To power up the A/P you have to throw the switch on the engine panel.
After that it works fine. I used it to come up the narrow BWB marina channel 3 days ago. Also if you lead the power cable through the drain channel and out the front of the laz. it will close fine. Since you have to take the wheel off to mount the belt I strongly suggest that if the A/P is to be used, plan on doing that before you leave the slip.

3-Speed and depth. Known and factored into the price.

4-The spinnaker comes with the top of the line sock and ATN tacker (goes around the rolled up jib and clips onto the spin. tack). The brand new sheets with there brand new top of the line blocks and the brand new down haul with it's top of the line snatch block are all located on the quarter berth. They are even color coded to avoid confusion.

5-Loran does not have and antenna. Elected not to replace after Ivan since the Coast Guard plans on decommissioning the network.

6-I do not leave the head sea cock open so was unaware of the problem. Easy fix with $5.00 kit.

7 & 8. 22 year old boat in salt water. Personally I think the engine is in great shape.

9. Had a tech look at that when I bought the boat 7 years ago. He verified that the engine is making rated power and that the tach reads somewhat low.
Bottom line is with a clean prop and clean hull I'll wager you where making hull speed with power to spare. If someone wants more rpm they can mount the 2-bladed prop that comes with the boat.

10- 22 year old boat. They are a fact of life. Catalina actually has fewer issues with these that other boats this age because they don't core the hull below the waterline. Bottom line there were 12 the last time I had the boat hauled and the marina folks repaired them even though they said I did not need to. Did not add much to the price of the haul out.

11-Rudder was damaged during Dennis (from another boat's anchor rode I'm guessing). Chances are the rudder could be repaired but I would get a new rudder from Catalina ($1300) that comes in a higher aspect configuration for better downwind handling. The worst case senerio was factored into the price of the boat by compensating with the $1400 dollars of new ground tackle I'm including with the boat. If you don't think that will fly let me know and I'll pull the anchors from the sale and sell them at the marina flea market.

12-This boat has what is called a left hand prop. Thus the stern moves to port in reverse and to starboard while going ahead. Power boats compensate this with trim tabs but this is not feasable on a sailboat as when under sail the tabs would cause the boat to turn to starboard. Not sure I can change the laws of physics on this one. If you want less pull mount the two bladed prop.

13-The pedestal brake works as intended although it is a bit stiff. Rotate to the left to release and to the right to engage. The brake functions as intended and that is keep the rudder from banging around while at the slip.
Engaging under way is not a safe practice.

Hope this answers some questions. I think the majority of these would have been resolve positively by a true survey. The bottom line is that this is a
22 year old $25000 boat. For the age and the price it will not be perfect but I have factored in the boats problems and faults in pricing the boat.
Please call with questions (home 897-XXXX or work 882-XXXX as I cannot take my cell phone into my work building). I am leaving the country for a week starting Saturday and will be out of contact with everyone (including my
wife) until I return.

Tim

Hi Alan,

Thanks for forwarding that to me. I'll be frank: regardless of what the owner thinks of my "survey" there is one fact that is inescapable: the condition of the bottom was grossly and deliberately misrepresented. He even said that he had a diver out the boat in the week before I hauled it.

I understand that boats of this vintage are likely to have some blisters.
However, the condition of the bottom of this boat goes well beyond "some blisters."

First, the blisters are pandemic. There are a tremendous amount of blisters on the bottom of the boat and there is no way that quantity manifested in only 24 months. In fact, there is ample evidence of far more than the represented half dozen repaired blisters - there are many "repaired"
blisters as evidenced by the unfaired depressions.

Also, the rudder is completely compromised - the rudder casings are split wide open; that's more than gouging. There are oysters living inside the rudder!

Also, the keel/hull joint has a very poor repair job that is failing on the port side of the keel. A similarly awful repair job is evident where the strut meets the hull. The strut is also weeping corrosion.

The bottom paint is also in terrible shape. I have seen 5 and 6 year bottom jobs that look much, much better than what was evident on the bottom of this boat.

Also, if the owner was aware of the boats tendency to head violently to port under power, then that was another gross misrepresentation. That is not a function of Catalinas and it is certainly not prop walk.

The rest of the deficiencies would, by themselves, be surmountable. It is curious that there is now a disclosure and detailed explanation of non-operative items that were represented as operational in the listing.

The cavalier response that the issues stated above are somehow par for the course or that auxiliary ground tackle somehow makes up for the gross deficiencies and the non-disclosure is absurd.

I put up a $2200 good faith deposit and spent a significant amount of funds on two trips to Florida to view and inspect this boat. I am not happy about money that was wasted. I understand that the reason for the cost and hassle of a survey is to uncover deficiencies. However, these deficiencies could AND SHOULD have been disclosed prior to the cost and time spent to discover them on my own.

The owner stated in his email "For the age and the price it will not be perfect but I have factored in the boats problems and faults in pricing the boat." Perhaps he did factor it into the price; too bad he did not factor it into the disclosures. I could have used to my money towards a better boat.

I also do not know what he means by "I think the majority of these would have been resolve positively by a true survey."

A "true survey" would have likely disclosed far more deficiencies than I did. It's also worth noting that I stopped inspecting all of the systems after seeing the bottom. Who knows what's wrong with the plumbing, electrical, and LPG systems.

I have extensive sailing experience. This is also not my first boat and I have waded deeply into sailboat maintenance and repair. Do not discount my observations. If this boat is surveyed by another unsuspecting buyer, the result will be same: an immediate rejection. I strongly encourage the owner to improve the quality of his disclosures. In fact, I plan to monitor the Yachtworld listing for signs of honest representation of the quality of the boat.

For what it's worth, I did enjoy meeting you and appreciate your time and effort. Please communicate to the owner my concerns. If you would like, I'll forward my typed inspection checklist for your review.



Thank you,

Jason King

[dasein668]

Hohboy. That's a pretty typical response from boat owners, it seems. I've seen it before. Somehow when someone is selling, they see only the roses of their boat, even though they would run screaming from same if they were purchasing...

Sorry that things worked out that way. I like your idea of going for a Sabre, though. Heather and I were looking for a Sabre when we got Dasein, but unfortunately, the were a bit out of our price range at the time. Generally, nice boats, imo.

Good luck!

[Case]

Ouch! Sorry for the letdown, Jason.

I bet that owner haven't really used his Catalina 30 since he bought it. So his mind is stuck on what he paid for it without accounting for the deterioration of his lack of care for it into the price. Some people simply are not honest. For its worth, I suspect the broker will not work with the owner again.

That Sabre 30 looks nice. Hopefully the description is honest...

Several other models that you might want to look at that seems to be your type... Ericson 30 + (sometimes called Plus), C&C 30, Tartan 30, and the Pearson 30. There is an Ericson 30 + nearby (for you, not me) in Dallas, Texas. This one is a fractional rig, double spreader. A 1983 boat. Draft on this one is 5'10 so that might be a problem. Search for it in Yachtworld. There is also a C&C 30 in your neck of the woods but its grossly overpriced. Nice but overpriced. If you can knock off 5 - 10 grand off the price, it would be a good buy.

Good luck with the Sabre!

- Case

[Figment]

the tach gets its rpm from the alternator so if it is not putting out then the tach would read zero with the motor running.

Is that true?

[Hirilondë]

We have several Sabres of varying lengths and ages at the boatyard and all seem to be holding up very well. On an older 36 there was one design flaw (as I see it anyway). The mast step sits on a bilge stringer at sole level. So when rain water comes down the inside of the mast, instead of just landing in the bilge it runs out along the bottom of the plywood. I spent a week this winter repairing the most rotted portion of the sole to make it look respectable and to keep people from failing through. More needs to be done really, but that is all the owner wanted to pay for at this point. Inspect the sole carefully is my advice, especially around the mast step.

[Tim]

Fun stuff. Why does it seem that so many sellers end up being just like this one? Everyone's an expert when they sell their neglected boats.

And what does coring below the waterline have to do with blisters, as defended by the owner in #10? Nothing, nothing at all.

Good riddance. Clearly, you wouldn't have gotten far into the purchase process if you'd found discrepancies that you wanted to work through and still buy the boat, as this owner would have stonewalled you every step of the way.

Buying a good used boat is frequently very difficult. Sellers frequently don't know the true condition of their boats; sometimes they deliberately misrepresent them. Becoming defensive and offering lame explanations for items uncovered by a potential buyer is the same as misrepresentation, whether the seller knew about the issues beforehand or not.

Even good used boats have problems, and most are worth less than their asking prices when all is said and done. It's one thing to deal with minor issues or overpricing on a boat in good condition, but when the boat is falling apart and the seller shows no indication of being understanding or willing to accept responsibility for the issues, the whole process just becomes unwelcome.

This problem is often compounded by brokers who frequently don't even look at the boats when they're listing them, so they either don't know the true condition and represent only what the sellers tell them. Some brokers do a good job, but it's rare to find brokers that are truly well versed in many of the boats that they have in their listings. To me, not visiting and at least performing a cursory inspection of the newly-listed boat is the same as misrepresenting its condition.

All it takes is a little honesty and realism to make the selling/buying process easier. Sellers want top dollar for junk, but when they're the buyers they demand perfection for below market value. Brokers could help by counseling their clients to price the boats realistically based on the individual boat's condition, but brokers tend to be full of fluff and bluster and usually promise selling prices that sound good to the seller, but are wholly out of line with the actual boat in question.

[Noah]

My Hinckley pulled pretty hard to starboard when under power. It had a 3 bladed prop and a full keel hung rudder. If you let the tiller go it would turn fairly hard.

Otherwise it sounds like the boat is a POS.

[Figment]

Is there also a correlation between the degree to which a propellor is fouled and the amount of propwalk generated?

(purely academic question)

[bcooke]

More fouling = less thrust = less differential thrust = less prop walk.

:-P

and to answer your first question about the alternator pickup for the tach,

... actually, after I posted a response, I re-read the original quote and realized the owner is just nuts. If he were right then 90% of the time every alternator based tach (virtually every boat with a diesel engine) would be reading zero. That is just plain silly.

Oh, and the owner's idea of switching to a 2-bladed prop would increase prop walk, not decrease it.

Now that I am seriously reading the owner's response I guess I could go point by point and discredit every line. I hope he doesn't mind paying marina fees. His boat isn't going anywhere soon.

[Jason K]

OK, the hunt continues.

I've moved completely away from Catalina 30's and given serious thought to how I plan to use the next boat.

It will be about half racing and half day sailing. I anticipate about 6 weekend trips and perhaps one longer cruise a year (about 5 days). Also, one 100 mile offshore race each year (Gulfport-Pensacola).

The MAX budget for the boat and first year improvements is less than $30,000 (for the right boat). The target is about $25,000.

I want a clean interior, but it does not need to be fancy (more than a Laser 28 less than a Catalina 30). Stoves, AC, large bunks, U-Shaped dinettes, etc. are not needed.

I also want a fairly quick boat - faster than the Catalina 30.

So, I'm thinking J30 is the way to go. The interior is nice, the boat is fast enough (138 PHRF), there is a lot of local interest (was a great OD fleet and it looks like it will be a good one in the future).

The negatives are that the boats are getting older (they were built from 1979 to 1985) and many of them have core issues. They are cored in the deck and in the hull to below the waterline. They are also prone to issues with the main bulkhead and the floor pan where it bonds to the hull (they used vermiculite).

I'm having a hard time finding a decent boat within a decent range.

I called on a local boat and the owner said he would like to sell it. It looks clean, but it has sat for a long time and there may be core issues. It desperately needs a bottom job and, I'm sure sails, along with the more standard items (brightwork, motor tune-up, etc.). I have not seen the interior and the owner has not come up with a price yet. There are a few photos at the web album below:

http://picasaweb.google.com/ejking80/J30Atalanta

Any tips, comments, advice or leads are appreciated.

[Figment]

Aw man you're killing me! Just this morning on the train I read TWO ads for 1983 catalina 30s. Standard rig A4 $20k, tall rig diesel $27k, both with full-batten main and better than usual cruising amenities!

sigh.

Yes of course the J30 is the boat that suits you best. This particular one is in dire need of rescue. Someone must buy this boat immediately if only to put the name on the quarter where it belongs instead of always half-hidden by the rudder.

(no, I've nothing productive to offer. Welcome to the world of me.)

[Ceasar Choppy]

Catalina 30s are a dime a dozen, at least down here on the Chesapeake, so if you are paying that much for one, it better be a really good one!

J30s are nice and fast, but the cored hull issue is nothing to take lightly IMHO. Needs to be inspected carefully. I also am not fond of the angles in the cockpit. I've raced on them before and would get banged up pretty good in an afternoon. That said, they are fast!

Pearson 30s are good if you are racing PHRF or one design. Pearson Flyers are good racers too.

Re the prop walk... I suspect it had a lot to do with the prop being in front of the spade rudder. My Renegade used to have this issue. I turned this design flaw into a feature when I figured out I could tie off the tiller very easily to counteract it and I had a very cheap autopilot while under power.

[Case]

J30s... Many of them have core issues in the hull.

I recall that one common area of hull core rot was at the stern, starboard. I am not 100% sure about this. If it was me checking out that boat, I would knock on the stern and feel/hear the resonances. If its dull... I would keep looking.

Good luck with the hunt!

- Case

[Tim]

All J-Boats--but particularly J-30s--of late 70s and 80s vintage tend to suffer significant core problems resulting from poorly-prepared and -installed through hulls, deck penetrations, and other hardware installations. The backstay chainplates at the transom corners also tend to have been sources for leakage, often affecting the entire transom core.

While not all suffer these problems, and many have been repaired over the years, any J-Boat under consideration requires a very careful inspection. When this leakage occurs, the water usually is able to migrate far from the point of origin. It's shockingly common on J-30s and 29s. Of course this is a costly repair...do-able, but costly.

J-30s are what they are, and they serve their intended purpose very well. They sail well, which means they're fun to race too--particularly with a OD fleet around--and they are quite comfortable for cruising as well. They have flaws, but so do all old boats. As long as you are aware of the potential areas of concern (which you are), there's no reason not to consider one. It sounds like it would fit your needs perfectly. The only challenge may be finding one that doesn't suffer from the known problems.

[Case]

Tongue in Cheek...

But for the hell of it, I'll post this one. It sure is a nice looking racer, perhaps too huge for Jason but its actually somewhere in his price range! Its been on the market for quite a while so it probably could be bought at a price even lower than shown.

42' Dobroth Wiggers

Go and Wig yourself out!

- Case

[Al]

There's an interesting article by Herb McCormick, former editor of Cruising World, about his J30 in the current issue of Good Old Boat.

[Jason K]

Someone must buy this boat immediately if only to put the name on the quarter where it belongs instead of always half-hidden by the rudder.

In this case it's not such a bad thing. The boat's name is Atalanta. Uggh. If I buy the boat, a proper name will go in the proper place.

J30s are nice and fast, but the cored hull issue is nothing to take lightly IMHO. Needs to be inspected carefully. I also am not fond of the angles in the cockpit. I've raced on them before and would get banged up pretty good in an afternoon. That said, they are fast!

Pearson 30s are good if you are racing PHRF or one design. Pearson Flyers are good racers too.

Re the prop walk... I suspect it had a lot to do with the prop being in front of the spade rudder.

The core and bulkhead issues are the biggies. I don't know if I will be able to find a dry boat. If not, I don't know what I'll buy. The cockpit is not ideal for cruising I know, but I like it for racing. It's easy to get way up on the windward side and still drive and trim - that's important on the J30 which needs meat on the rail to sail flat. For cruising - oh well.

I've looked at three Pearson 30's and can't get excited about them. Like Tim, I find them a bit plain and they just don't fit the bill. I've never been a fan of the Flyer and I have sailed one. **A friend of mine had a Flyer that survived the storm mostly intact. It was pulled off of the pile with a crane and, as it was being moved towards a waiting truck, it slipped from the slings onto the ground - total destruction. The owner was right there wathcing the whole thing. His wife was thrilled they would be able to get a more comfortable boat.

The prop walk on the Catalina 30 was definitely a steering system issue.

J30s... Many of them have core issues in the hull.

I recall that one common area of hull core rot was at the stern, starboard. I am not 100% sure about this. If it was me checking out that boat, I would knock on the stern and feel/hear the resonances. If its dull... I would keep looking.

The J30's weren't built with enough consideration for the core and with its racing pedigree, many owners have not been careful enough either. The backstay chainplates and (particularly) the engine exhaust in the transom are the biggest sources of water intrusion into the hull. The stanchions are also not adequately supported, leading to ingress in the deck. Also, the chainplates are problem areas. The coachroof usually fails as a result of hardware upgrades that are installed without isolating the core.

[Jason K]

J-30s are what they are, and they serve their intended purpose very well. They sail well, which means they're fun to race too--particularly with a OD fleet around--and they are quite comfortable for cruising as well. They have flaws, but so do all old boats. As long as you are aware of the potential areas of concern (which you are), there's no reason not to consider one. It sounds like it would fit your needs perfectly. The only challenge may be finding one that doesn't suffer from the known problems.

I think I have a good feel for what the flaws are and a realistic perception of what is and is not acceptable for my time and budget. I am not certain that I will be able to find an acceptable J30, but I'll certainly exhaust all options. I'm meeting tonight with a former part owner of Zephyr - the boat and team that won five consecutive National Championships - to see if we can find a boat together. He's huge within the J30 fleet and has been a driving force in rebuilding a Gulf Coast OD fleet.

Go and Wig yourself out!

Cool boat - but too big!

There's an interesting article by Herb McCormick, former editor of Cruising World, about his J30 in the current issue of Good Old Boat.

Yes, I read that. A good article and a great magazine.

[Jason K]

Update:

I just took a very close look at the J30 mentioned above (photos are at: http://picasaweb.google.com/ejking80/J30Atalanta ).

We have a purchase agreement pending haulout, inspection and sea trial, but I am optimistic. It will need some work, but it should me manageable.

The negatives are some minor issues like a crack in the Tuff Luff headstay, very dated electronics, and a fair sail inventory (ok for club racing and cruising but I'll need some regatta sails).

The major negative is one area on deck that might have a core issue. There are also some blisters above the waterline around the exhaust in the transom. This is very common in J30's, but it's still alarming.

However, the price reflects these things and the boat has some positives:

The deck looks great - the nonskid molding is not worn and the gelcoat looks very good. The interior is very, very nice for a J boat. There is teak and holly throughout and it's very clean.

The hull is oxidized but aside from a few docking dings, looks fine. It does not have a crazy paint job like some J30's have (no two-tone nonsense or huge red/blue stripes).

The bottom is a big question mark, so we'll have to wait for the haul out to see. It has quite a bit of soft growth on it as this boat has been very lightly used and has not been out of the slip since 2005.

[Tim]

Better luck this time! Hope it goes well at the survey.

[Mark.Wilme]

Good luck Jason, if the delam isn't to bad you may be able to fix from the inside so as not to have to mess with your finish topsides.

[Jason K]

The haulout is Tuesday at 10:00. I don't know if I'm going to make it - I'm very excited about this boat. I'm telling myself to be calm and rational, but I'm doing a poor job of that. If the boat passes, it will stay out for a new Baltoplate bottom and we'll do a 100 mile offshore race in the beginning of June.

Frankly, the bottom or core of this boat will have to be a disaster for me to pass on it.

Where is my self-control?

[Ceasar Choppy]

Where is my self-control?

It was behind the couch the whole time!
;)

[Mark.Wilme]

The haulout is Tuesday at 10:00. ..................... Where is my self-control?

So Jason, going to get a good nights sleep tonight ?

I'll bet you are as excited as a 5 year old on Christmas Eve

Fun isn't it ?

[Jason K]

So Jason, going to get a good nights sleep tonight ?

I'll bet you are as excited as a 5 year old on Christmas Eve

Fun isn't it ?

Oh, I've got it bad. I just got back from taking another look at the boat from the dock. I did the same last night.

I'll still be rational during the inspection, but I'll be seriously disappointed if it doesn't work out.

Details and photos to follow tomorrow...

[Jason K]

Well, we hauled the boat out a few hours ago. The owner did not want to leave his dog in his truck, so he had me bring the boat down to the boatyard without him. I thought that was interesting - there's no way some one would take my boat until he paid for it.

Anyway, I made it down the bayou without running aground or getting the mast stuck in a tree. The boat motors very well. I can spin it around almost within its own length and it really responds to the big, transom hung rudder.

The bottom of the boat was not as nice as I had hoped. There were quite a few very small blisters - the yard guy thought they were just in the bottom paint and that the majority would just sand out. If I get the boat, I'll probably just have to resign myself to dealing with blisters every time it comes out for a new bottom.

There was quite a bit of soft growth and there were a lot of barnacles. Baltoplate may be fast but it's a poor antifouling if it isn't kept clean - that really showed on this boat.

There are three areas of delamination that we found by sounding the hull. They are all about 8"x8" around the below-the-waterline throughhulls. That is very common on J30's around here. They are literally all wet. We don't haul our boats out every year and it shows in boats that are inherently susceptible to moisture.

I'm still very interested in the boat, but the owner and I disagree on the value. We're about $3000 apart (he says 15, I say 12). A consideration though is that this boat comes with a great slip and is already less than 5 minutes away from my house. By the time I find another boat, pay food, gas, hotel, haulout, inspection, and delivery costs, I might not be doing myself any favors by trying to save the $3000.

We're scheduled to talk again tomorrow evening. The owner wants to discuss it with his son. So, I still don't know what will happen and the anticipation is keeping me up late. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

[Hirilondë]

I'm still very interested in the boat, but the owner and I disagree on the value. We're about $3000 apart (he says 15, I say 12). A consideration though is that this boat comes with a great slip and is already less than 5 minutes away from my house. By the time I find another boat, pay food, gas, hotel, haulout, inspection, and delivery costs, I might not be doing myself any favors by trying to save the $3000.

There's a lot more to the price of buying or selling a boat than the price of the boat. I have seen people be stubborn about a difference in price far less than the impact of stalling or causing a deal to fold. I'm not saying you should give in yet, but don't lose sight of the end.

[Jason K]

We've reached an agreement!

The boat should be mine by the front end of next week.

Here we go again!

[bcooke]

Congrats!

-Britton

[Tim]

Excellent. Congratulations!

We'll be happy to review some pictures anytime...

[dasein668]

Congrats! So, where are those pictures? I mean, it's been like 10 minutes, at least!

[Figment]

If I hafta see one more photo of an old boat I'm gonna barf.

[Mark.Wilme]

We've reached an agreement!

The boat should be mine by the front end of next week.

Here we go again!

Heap Big Congrats Jason. Now, about those pictures ????

[Jason K]

Thanks!

Pictures will follow (sorry Mike).

Pictures will follow. I'm having some technical difficulties, but they are on the way.

About the boat: It is a 1981 J30. It has been very, very lightly used for the last ten years. However, it is a nice boat.

The bad:
-There are a couple wet spots in the deck, but access is good and I'll be able to get at it from underneath.
-The instruments/electronics are worthless. They're all coming out.
-There are a lot of small blisters but it looks like many are just in the paint. The boat was barrier coated.
- Running rigging is shot.
- Hardware is dated. Blocks, clutches and other items will be replaced. The winches will be serviced.
-Sail inventory is fair. There is a nearly new class main, #1 and spinnaker, but I'll need to get a decent used #2 and #3. Brand new sails are not in the budget this year. In truth, it will take me that long to learn how to be competive in the boat. Until then, it probably won't be the sails holding me back.
- THE BIGGIE: Like all J30's in the south, there is moisture in the hull. On this boat, there are three areas. The yard (a good one) will repair it for $1000 an area. It's a lot, but I'm leaning towards letting them do it and replacing the culpable through-hulls at the same time. I was going to replace the through-hulls and monitor the dampness, but I think the smart thing is to jump on it while it's manageable.

The Good:
- The boat is immaculate. It is the cleanest J30 I've seen. The deck has no crazing and is two-tone (white and beige nonskid). Many of the J30 decks are a solid cream color, which doesn't look as nice.
-It has teak and holly throughout and the cushions are light-colored and in great shape. There is no evidence of leaks into the interior. To make up for my inexcusable lack of photos, the boat looks identical to this one in New York.
- The topsides are oxidized, but will polish up nicely. The name is currently on the transom but I will be renaming the boat and moving the name to each stern quarter. The boat will be called Rambunctious.
-The motor appears to be great. The owner says he made an effort to keep it in top shape and I believe him. He didn't know much about the boat, but he really knew his way around the motor. It is a 2GM Yanmar. I will replace the belts, hoses, clamps, fluids and filters anyway, though, just to be sure. This boat will see heavy use as soon as she comes out of the yard.

It's funny that I've been looking and calling on boats hundreds of miles away and I end up buying one that is literally around the corner. The boat was not listed for sale. It looked like it wasn't being used and I called the owner to see if he would like to sell it. A big benefit of getting a boat close to home is that it comes with a very nice slip in a marina with a 3 to 5 year waiting list. It is up the same bayou as the Triton was and it should serve as a good hurricane hole.

I can't wait to finish this deal.

[Figment]

This is the bayou that's home to your reptilian avatar?

Is a baltoplate bottom really a good idea? A slick bottom may not be worth going for a swim in that dude's backyard!

Congratulations on being found by the right boat. Can't wait to read tales of all the action.

[Rachel]

Great news, Jason! Can't wait to see the boat.

Rachel

[dasein668]

Sounds like a great boat for you Jason! Looking forward to seeing her.

I was going to replace the through-hulls and monitor the dampness, but I think the smart thing is to jump on it while it's manageable.

I think you are right about jumping on this problem while it's still small. Just out of curiosity, why are you planning to have the yard do the repair instead of doing it yourself? I know you're up to recoring...

At any rate I'd make sure that the yard lays up solid material in-way of the actual through hull to prevent any possible intrusion in the future.

Congrats again on the boat!

[FloatingMoneyPit]

the boat looks identical to this one in New York.

Hey, I've sailed and drank (mostly the latter) on that boat! Looks like the current owner removed the television that was installed by the P.O. Season Jets tickets and no sailing Sundays...or flat screen on the bulkhead and sailing Sundays...that was his dilemma. I remember being shocked at how nice it was below -- didn't expect it from such a fast boat. The cabin sole was rotting in and around the head from a leaky shower fitting, so there's something else for your work list.
Congratulations on a cool boat, with "dreamy engine access" to boot.

[Figment]

or flat screen on the bulkhead and sailing Sundays....

See, Nathan, we're not alone!

[George ( C&C 40 )]

Congratulations Jason!


As I believe I mentioned before, I'm a big fan of the J30. We have a few in the York River Yacht Club and all the owners are happy with them. They are one of the very rare boats that do a really good job at both racing and cruising.

If you race in a competitive fleet make sure you get the rig tuning right. The J30 is very very touchy when it comes to tuning. I watched one J30 owner go from 15'th to 4'th in the fleet after just two weeks of very minor adjustments to the rig.


Have Fun,

George

[dasein668]

or flat screen on the bulkhead and sailing Sundays....

See, Nathan, we're not alone!

Sundays are sacrosanct.

Fortunately they don't start for real 'til September.

[Jason K]

A slick bottom may not be worth going for a swim in that dude's backyard!

Alligators aren't aggressive. It's the alligator snapping turtles that scare me...males get over 200 lbs. I don't know if any are in Bayou Castine or not. I used to deal with a 70 lbs. one when I worked at the zoo.

I think you are right about jumping on this problem while it's still small. Just out of curiosity, why are you planning to have the yard do the repair instead of doing it yourself? I know you're up to recoring...

I have the same problem with J as I did with the Triton - the nearest yard that will allow DIY work is an hour away (by car) and expensive. By the time I get the job done myself and pay the associated costs, I'm not saving enough to justify the effort. Plus, I want a fair hull and I think this yard will be able to do a better job than I can.

The below the waterline through-hulls and the exhaust port will have a solid glass barrier.

I will fix a soft spot in the deck myself.

The cabin sole was rotting in and around the head from a leaky shower fitting, so there's something else for your work list.

Fortunately, the interior of this boat is in great shape - no rots, leaks or corrosion.

The sale is scheduled for Tuesday. Once the boat is actually mine, I'll post the photos and the work/upgrade list. There will be a whole lot happening with the boat in a fairly short time. It ought to be exciting.

[dasein668]

I have the same problem with J as I did with the Triton - the nearest yard that will allow DIY work is an hour away (by car) and expensive.

Oh right! I forgot about that. Makes sense.

[Figment]

The yard will also probably have you in the water a month earlier than if you were to tackle the repair yourself. Spring's a-wastin!

[MikeD]

If you want my advice, I say hire it out to a competent outfit and go sailing sooner! ;)