Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

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Triton106
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Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by Triton106 »

Recently I sailed Blossom (Triton 106) with a borrowed main from a friend and observed noticeable improvements in both its pointing ability and weatherhelm. The baggieness in the old mainsail is also noticeable by comparison. I sent it away today to Sailcare to clean and re-resin. I also plan to discuss with them about ways to reduce the baggy shape. What is your experience with recutting an older sail to improve its performance? Is it worth the money? Does anyone have any direct or indirect experience with Sailcare?

P.S. should have grab Tim's lightly used full batten main when it was up for sale.
Ray D. Chang
Triton 106 in Berkeley, CA
ILikeRust
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:22 pm
Boat Name: Grizabella
Boat Type: Pearson Wanderer 30
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by ILikeRust »

I wholeheartedly endorse Sailcare. The previous owner of my boat had the head sail cleaned and treated by them, and he told me it made a huge difference. He recommended I send the main sail for the same treatment.

Jerry, who is the guy that typically answers the phone, clearly has a hell of a lot of experience and knows what he's doing. And he seems like a decent guy, too - he's spent some time on the phone with me, advising me. The first thing they do with a sail is Jerry and another person or two lay the sail out and go over it closely to identify what it needs. Jerry advised me that the main sail was pretty far gone (it probably was 30 years old - I knew it had some damage, but it was worse than I knew) and by the time he fixed all the things it needed, it was only about $300-400 shy of him just making me a brand new sail. So I took him up on that and had him make me a whole new sail. Because of all the work I'm still doing on my boat, I have yet to put the sail on, but it looks pretty damn good in the box.

But yes, their laundering and chemical treatment process can indeed make a big difference, as long as your sail isn't too beat up and aged to benefit from it.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
CapnK
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Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by CapnK »

I know several people personally who've had work done by Sailcare, and will second the recommendation.

In one case, Sailcare did make a blunder - they sent us back a brand-new, but wrong, jib for my clients H23 (I'd installed a roller snarler & lines led aft, during a rerig of the boat). They were to have conditioned his main and jib, and modified the jib for the roller (recut and sun cover on the leech).

In this case, Sailcare made good by 1) paying for return shipping, 2) altered the new jib so that it fit properly, 3) returned it via Express shipping in 3 days, 4) for no charge for the work on the jib (client paid for main cleaning/reconditioning only, in the end).

Anecdotal: I have had one other client who at some time in the past had an unhappy experience with them and the sails for his IP31. I am not familiar with the particulars, but he had found another company that did similar work, and was very happy with what they were able to do. As I recall, the issue stemmed from the fact that he'd sent his sail(s) in during April, and it took quite a while to get them back.

With that said, I do know that when I have spoken with Sailcare, they've told me that mid- to late spring is their busiest time of year, and if you want fast turnaround, fall/winter is the time to send your sails in.
Kurt and Barque, the CrewDog.
Sundance, '71 A-30, #429
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ILikeRust
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:22 pm
Boat Name: Grizabella
Boat Type: Pearson Wanderer 30
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by ILikeRust »

That is a good point, and one that Jerry emphasized to me. I sent him my main sail just before Christmas - he told me not to wait, because they do get crazy busy in Spring. As I recall, the brand new sail (with my old one in the box with it) showed up right at the end of March/early April.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
Triton106
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Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:51 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by Triton106 »

Thanks guys for your feedback on Sailcare.

Bill, if you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for the new mainsail for your Pearson Wanderer (assuming that the sail you made is for your Wanderer).
Ray D. Chang
Triton 106 in Berkeley, CA
ILikeRust
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:22 pm
Boat Name: Grizabella
Boat Type: Pearson Wanderer 30
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by ILikeRust »

Yes, it was for my Wanderer.

You know, right now I'm not recalling the exact amount. I'll need to lay my hands on the receipt.

But I do know that I had him add two sets of reef points, which cost a little extra. And as I recall, there are four battens. And I had him apply the Wanderer logo (a stylized "W") and the hull number, which cost a little extra.

The number that is springing to mind is that it was something between $1,600 and $1,800. I think it was around $1,800.

I was going to have him apply a big custom graphic to the sail - I have a really cool graphic that I would love to put on the sail. But it was going to be another $600 - 800, and with everything I'm already doing to the boat (i.e., money I'm spending on it), it really just seemed like an indulgence, so I decided not to spend the extra money.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
Triton106
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by Triton106 »

Thanks Bill! That's a little out of my reach for the time being. In any case I will need to talk to them about my specific sail. Hope it can be recut to improve the shape.
Ray D. Chang
Triton 106 in Berkeley, CA
Triton106
Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:51 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by Triton106 »

A quick update...

Jerry called me this morning and said that they have received my sail. The cause of the baggy shape is the nylon boltrope which has shrunk badly. The cost of replacing the boltrope, including strengthening the luff and foot edges, replacing the grommets is $8.50 per foot. On Triton the total luff and foot is 43 feet. The cleaning cost is $185. The total bill, including restiching the batten pockets and replacing the leather patch near the clew is going to be about $600.

The good news is that the sail still has about 5/6 years live left according to Jerry (I assuming he is talking about daysailing). He rated the sail 7 on a scale of 10.
Ray D. Chang
Triton 106 in Berkeley, CA
ILikeRust
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:22 pm
Boat Name: Grizabella
Boat Type: Pearson Wanderer 30
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by ILikeRust »

By the way, if you decide to look for a "new" sail, don't forget about used, reconditions sails.

I think Sailcare sells some, but as far as shopping for used sails, I've always seen Bacon Sails recommended. I've never done any business with them myself, though. But from what I've heard, they have a very good selection and good pricing. So if you decide to get a spare or replace a sail, give them a call and see what they've got.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
Triton106
Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:51 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by Triton106 »

Thanks Bill, I am fortunate that my main still has some life left so I don't have to deal with the issues of buying an used vs. a new sail. Like buying most things used purchasing an old sail, especially sight unseen as one orders from online stores, is fraught with potential problems. Most of them are not exact match for the size. Often cloth weight, attachments (slides, boltrope, etc), reefing points, and other more minor aspects are all potential areas for compromise. Some of them would have to be altered to fit one's sailing needs. At the end of the day one can end up paying 50~80% of the cost of a new sail. My dock neighbor brought a new Northsail main for his Cal 27 at a boat show with a promotional discount for only $1300. I have scoured both local and online sail warehouses (including Bacon, Minneys, Sail Warehouse, and others) and could not find anything that is close enough to what I need. Once in a while one does get lucky and find a perfect fit for a song. But that never seems to happen to me...
Ray D. Chang
Triton 106 in Berkeley, CA
captphil416
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Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by captphil416 »

Ray; If you are not racing, you might consider a battenless, loose footed main for your Triton. Mack or Somerset can provide one and at a good price. I have been very happy with mine, and the price was only slightly more than an excellent used main from a broker. Just a thought Phil
Triton106
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Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:51 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by Triton106 »

Got my old main sail back from Sailcare yesterday. Wow, it looks like new and crisp (I guess from the re-resining process). Not only are the stains gone they also replaced all of the boltrope along the luff and foot (the main reason for the baggie shape). All of the cringles (including the small ones along the luff for installing slides and 3 sets of reefing) replaced. Batten pockets resewn, leathter patches along the tack and clew resewn, telltales resewn. The whole thing, including shipping from MI to CA, cost me $780. I will take some pictures once I get a chance to bend it on. Jerry, the owner/manager, rated the sail 7/10. Hope that I can get 5 more years of day sailing out of it.
Ray D. Chang
Triton 106 in Berkeley, CA
Triton106
Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:51 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Improving an older mainsail by Sailcare

Post by Triton106 »

Well, I took the renewed mainsail back to the boat today and fully intended to test it and take some pictures. Unfortunately the camera batteries died on me. But testing the sail I did. After I bent on the sail I took Blossom (Triton106) out to the Oakland estuary and tacked back and forth from Coast Guard Island to Jack London Square and back in about 5-15 knot wind. The sail set very well and felt good. I noticed that Sailcare not only replaced the boltrope but also resewed the bottom panel to apperantly take out baggie shape. For the first time I felt like a good sailor who took care of his boat and sails. Is it worth $780? I don't know. If I could find a good used sail that fits the Tritons for less I would buy it. That's why I still kick myself for not grabbing Tim's old main when it was up for sail.

BTW, while I was out in the estuary I sailed past Alaska Eagle, the former America's Cup winner and now an OCC School of Seamanship training ship. I guess they just finished their Hawaii to San Francisco leg and will be on the way back to Newport Beach soon. I heard that they will be selling it after they complete this last leg. Got a couple million clams? It can be your newest toy.

Image
Ray D. Chang
Triton 106 in Berkeley, CA
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