System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:25 am

I'm working on deciding what to paint the new boat with once I get to that stage - what colour, and what product. I found that I really liked Britton's very dark purple, for colour, and am enamoured of the results that Tim gets with Alexseal (of course there are a lot more reasons for his good results than just paint selection, and I don't expect to duplicate it - but I'd like to stack the deck in my favour if I can).

So I thought my choice was made, and have been in touch with Alexseal who assure me that they can duplicate the purple colour and supply me with what I need when the time comes - at reasonable prices, even.

Great.

But - I've since noticed the System Three WR-LPU, and have to say that the idea of a paint that stands up like the big names but doesn't require nasty thinners and cleaning solvents does appeal a lot! So I've also been in touch with System Three, who tell me that they can also make me up the colour (although only in a gallon size, which is a bit extreme for my use) and that the only real difference I'll see between their product and AwlGrip (they weren't familiar enough with Alexseal to compare to them) is that it won't be as glossy. And that's even if I put on three or more coats of their glossy clear coat, which is the solution for people who want to shine. On the other hand, it can be buffed, which is something they say not to do with the regular LPUs, and it can be touched up, which is another thing they say can't be done (especially with dark colours) with the regular LPUs. It also is less toxic, which when you're painting on your own property is very appealing (very appealing anywhere, but it's more in your face in your backyard), and doesn't require as much personal safety coverage for the applicator (me). Apparently it lasts well in the can, also, so touching up without having to buy more is probably possible.

I've searched fairly extensively here and elsewhere for opinions, and come up with the usual praising and cursing, but universal admittance that it's not as glossy. I wish there was some way to quantify how much less glossy, but I may have to live with that.

I know that David has used it on his mast, sea-hood and some woodwork and is pleased - does anyone know of anyone that's used it on a hull, and posted pictures? The only pictures I could find were quite low-res of a homebuilt wooden boat in white. I'm looking for a well-prepped fiberglass boat in a dark colour, really.

Any thoughts encouraged!

Ronin120 · Post by **Ronin120** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:32 am

I'll very interested in the opinions on this question too.

Let me preface by saying I know NOTHING about these paints and painting. At this stage in the rebuild I've settled on using Alexseal after observing the results and reading about the process of using it that Tim has provided us.

I have a friend who owns a small boatyard and does some of the painting himself. He uses Awlcraft 2000 a fair amount for customers because it can be buffed out. I watched him sand and buff out a section of transom that had a lot of orange-peel because of the conditions. It came out quite nicely.

That said, I have this notion that Alexseal and Awlcraft 2000 provide the one benefit that I need: the ability to repair damage. I know going in that I am going to have areas in my paint job that will need attention. More importantly, even though I think I'm a pretty good boat-handler (don't we all...) the reality is that I bump into things. Scratch and gouge repair will be high on my list of requirements.

Prior to painting my boat I'm going to do a test run by painting the Snipe. This will allow me to work on my technique and experiment with the materials. I'll be more than happy to post pictures of and describe the results of that effort. I hope to have that done by mid-June this coming summer.

Cheers

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:41 am

But - I've since noticed the System Three WR-LPU, and have to say that the idea of a paint that stands up like the big names but doesn't require nasty thinners and cleaning solvents does appeal a lot! ... the only real difference I'll see between their product and AwlGrip ... is that it won't be as glossy.

and there is the rub. If you want the look of an LPU you need to deal with the nasty parts too. You can come close but there is no substitute.

So I've also been in touch with System Three, who tell me that they can also make me up the colour (although only in a gallon size, which is a bit extreme for my use)

Me too. I had to buy a gallon. About $350 if I remember right. I think I have 3 quarts left. Or rather, Tim has it in deep storage for the next time.

For the record, I used Awlcraft 2000 which is an acrylic and is buffable. I haven't tried buffing so I can't say how it works yet. It can't be rolled and tipped. It can only be sprayed.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:54 pm

Ronin120 wrote:That said, I have this notion that Alexseal and Awlcraft 2000 provide the one benefit that I need: the ability to repair damage.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Alexseal and Awlgrip have the same "repairability" limitations, since they're both LPUs? I didn't think either of them were in the category with Awlcraft 2000 (which I understand is slightly softer, and hence more repairable).

I can understand where the "non-repairability" of an LPU would be a concern with a dark color, although, assuming I would paint with a lighter color, I've actually changed my (theoretical, future) mind 180º on paint. Before I bought the Alberg, I had been thinking I'd use something like a Toplac (one-part), for ease of application and repairability, but now that I have it, I've changed my mind.

The reason is that the Alberg was painted with Awlgrip in ~1985, and although it has its share of scratches and dings (touched up by hand, it looks like -- just a dab of paint) it still looks amazingly good. You just don't really "see" the problems because it's overall clean and still has shine. This is in the color "Empress Blue." To visualize it, you can think of how I jokingly call it "Blue-Tape Blue" (although that sells it a bit short).

I guess after seeing that, I place a little less importance on the "repairability" of a paint. If it's going to look that good after nearly 25 years, I can live with that. Granted, it's not a dark color like a Flag Blue or a Britton's Mystery, so that might make a difference.

Rachel

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:02 pm

I haven't used the it, but many professional and amateur small boat builders love the stuff. No, it isn't quite as shiny, so if a mirror is your goal forget it. But if you can live with a bright semi-gloss it appears that the stuff holds up at least close to as well as Awlgrip and Alexaseal. Isocyanates are what give those 2 their superb gloss. It is probably the most dangerous material in a boatyard. Semi-gloss is also more forgiving of minor blemishes, is more easily rolled and tipped, and can be sprayed wearing a good cartridge respirator, and roll/tipped with no protection. It will take a long time to catch on in boatyards. Many people just have to see their faces in the topsides to be happy. And when paying someone to spray it they don't need any protection.

You weigh the pros and cons yourself. My next paint job will be System 3. The environment and I can both breath easier with it.

Post by **Tim** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:17 pm

I think the repair ability notion is overrated and overstated. All paints can be "repaired"; in most cases, you will see the repair if you look closely. If you don't look closely, a repair in one looks as good as the repair in another, and will always get you through till the next paint job. Whatever the paint, it takes an extremely skilled individual to provide an invisible repair; this is virtually unheard of, though not completely so.

This is a repair in regular Awlgrip. It was not a good repair by any means, and was visible up close. From any distance, it was invisible; the invisibility wouldn't have been enhanced by any other paint, only by the skill of the repairer. I was happy to repaint my boat to hide this, but I lived with it for 7 years and never noticed it except when I was really looking (and I knew it was there). It was my first-ever repair of Awlgrip, and I didn't know what I was doing. I made this repair when the Awlgrip on the boat was 2 years old.

The real point is this: for the average person, choosing one paint over another for the supposed repair ability of the product probably isn't a good enough reason on its own.

In the end, what paint to choose will come down to each individual person's choices regarding the balance of durability, reputation, overall system quality, scratch-resistance qualities, price, one's own ability to work with the chosen product, health hazards associated with the system, and convenience of supply.

The hard-shell finish of a traditional-type LPU like Awlgrip and Alexseal will outperform and outlast the others (in terms of overall paint and surface appearance and color/gloss retention). To me that makes using them worthwhile. They are nasty and dangerous and challenging to apply well, but the results are worth it.

LPUs are not to be trifled with; most "home" users will probably be better off with something more user-friendly, frankly. I don't know anything specifically about the System Three water-based LPU, having never used it myself, but being a safer product to work with has a lot going for it for the normal user.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:54 pm

...or a Britton's Mystery...

I am pretty sure I ended the mystery on the blog but just in case.

Awlcraft 2000 #F7350 "Aubergine"

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:18 pm

I know, I know... Aubergine. I liked my name better :)

Post by **Tim** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:20 pm

Regarding buffing of painted boats:

It's true that one shouldn't buff traditional LPUs. But one doesn't need to, either. That gloss and color stays in good shape for many years with only water and soap. You can buff it, like any paint, but doing this will eventually affect that "hard shell" outer surface that gives solvent-based LPU paints their depth of shine and durability. The beauty is that you don't have to do this just to make the paint shine and hold up; it will do this all on its own.

Once you start buffing, you can't really stop. This is why the final step in any surface repair to LPU like Awlgrip and Alexseal is to apply Awl-Care polymer sealant, as it helps ameliorate the issues with removing that hard outer shell.

Buffing is a way to improve the appearance of a surface that has begun to degrade. The softer acrylic and water-based paints are more amenable to buffing for those so inclined.

There are good reasons to use one of any number of paints out there; just be sure you are choosing the right reasons as you make your decision.

Ronin120 · Post by **Ronin120** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:14 pm

Rachel,

I'm not the go-to guy for technical details regarding repairing differing types of paint. I'm going to take Alexseal's word on their product:

ALEXSEAL® not only outshines all of its competitors, it is formulated to be repaired in case the unexpected scratch may occur

Although given what I've done to some of my hulls in the past, "scratch" might not be the proper term. ;-)

I think Tim puts it well, there are multiple factors to be taken into account when choosing the right paint for each person. I know in my case that I have never owned a boat with gelcoat that was less that 20 years old. And since I'm am sooo over grunting my way around my hull with an 8lb Milwaukee buffer and 3M Fiberglass Restorer and Wax just to have it wear off half-way through the season I am going with a paint the produces the shiniest finish possible. Hell, I figure the cost of materials is a good bit cheaper that rotator-cuff surgery.

I thought long and hard about the System Three products but decided that despite the health and environment concerns I will only be doing this once, well, one-and-a-half times if you count the Snipe so I chose the Alexseal paint. Basically because it was a newer product to Awlgrip.

Cheers
Alexseal - "Jade Mist Green"

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:03 pm

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful advice! While it doesn't make up my mind with any certainty, since there are obviously upsides to either route, it helps to solidify my suspicions and bring me closer to a decision. Which - at this juncture would be to go with the System Three WR-LPU, mostly due to the less toxic nature. It won't be as glossy, which won't look as good - but chances are pretty good that it'll still look really good - just not superyacht good, and that tradeoff seems alright to me. I also won't worry as much about my health as I apply it - I've been notorious in the past for skimping on the safety measures, so going with a paint that doesn't require as many makes sense.

And I'll either get a gallon of the colour I want, or decide that black, blue or green is the colour I want. We'll see.

Thanks again!

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:35 pm

Chris Campbell wrote: It won't be as glossy, which won't look as good - but chances are pretty good that it'll still look really good - just not superyacht good, and that tradeoff seems alright to me.

Lots of "superyachts" were done in what today would be called semi-gloss. I personally think semi-gloss looks better than gloss in many applications. I get the point you are trying to make, but keep in mind not everyone agrees with it. Your statement proclaims it as universal.

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:22 pm

Your statement proclaims it as universal.

Good point, and thanks for making it. That is one of my bad habits - to express my opinion as a universal truth. And the problem is of course compounded by it being in type, on a computer - inflection is lost and it can seem heavy-handed. Sorry!

And who knows? Maybe I, too, will find that I like the semi-gloss look better!

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:22 am

Hi Chris, Is anyone in Canada (or even better- Nova Scotia) carrying the System 3 paint. I've used the Perfection 2 part with some degree of success in the past. It's pretty simple and safe if rolled and tipped and widely available ( The Binnacle and others) which is a big plus when you need an extra litre in a hurry. Best regards, David

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:44 am

Hi David - the System Three tech told me that it was available from Stright-Mackay. I didn't see it in their catalogue, though, so I'm not sure if it's an in-stock or special order item. Either way, the Binnacle will be able to get it for me through them with a little notice.

I rolled-and-tipped Swallow with Interlux Interthane Plus (the predecessor to Perfection) and had reasonable results. If I'd practiced on something else they would have been better, of course, but there you go. She was gorgeous from 6 feet. Weatherbird was sprayed with Perfection after her collision, by a professional, but I was never happy with the results, somehow. The result just wasn't as good as the 9 year old Awlgrip that had been there before. Of course that could easily have been an issue with preparation or application - I don't know. It appeared that they did a good job preparing, and the guy who did the painting is good at it - but they were in a time crunch, so who knows.

I do plan to spray this one, and will be able to take my time, I think, but I still do like the idea of a paint I can buff with impunity in case I muff it and have runs and sags (likely!).

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:40 am

Thanks Chris, it's tough to decide which way to go at times. There is a lot of different opinions. I'll have to investigate the System 3 a bit.
David
PS Nice progress on the shed, it'll be a big help.

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:37 pm

I'm at the point of starting to think about paint. Thanks for the info and keep us informed as to the the process. I'm a horrible painter and would love to find an easier way without having to come up with right consitancy even if it means less than glossy.

Currently I have brightsides Largo Blue that came with the boat. No shine, easily scrached but oddly enough I like the no gloss look to it.

Cheers,

Maine Sail · Post by **Maine Sail** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:16 pm

Tim et.al,

I was under the impression that AlexSeal was a polyester LPU with similar characteristics to AwlGrip only using better quality resins and pigments. How is AlexSeal buffable/repairable?

I chose AwlCraft 2000 when I painted my boat becuase I have worked a lot with Imron in the past which is another two part Acrylic Urethane. I like the repair/buffability of an Acrylic Urethane vs. a polyester LPU.

While not quite as durable I have consistently seen Imron finishes restored via buffing/polishing at 15+ years and they continue to go for quite a few more. When you buff an LPU you run the risk of burning through a very thin protective layer exposing the pigment layer. Is AlexSeal different from AwlGrip in this fashion??

This boat was Imron and I buffed it two seasons ago at the 18 year mark. It still looks very good today and will go another season this summer. You can't effectively restore AwlGrip to this level via buffing/polishing at that age without compromising the integrity of the finish.

Two years ago at 18 years old:

This past November nearly 20 year old red Imron (Acrylic Urethane):

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:29 pm

LPU=linear polyurethane

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:11 pm

I was asking the same question, Maine Sail. To my mind, also, Alexseal and Awlgrip were about the same product, in terms of basic makeup (Ronin 120 mentioned that Alexseal had the "repairable" quality that Awlgrip lacks).

Tim: I'm with you on the fact that Awlgrip lasts so long that the repairability factor is not an issue (for me); but I'm still interested in straightening out in my mind what Ronin 120 said about Alexseal being more repairable than Awlgrip.

Thanks,

Rachel

Maine Sail · Post by **Maine Sail** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:01 pm

From AlexSeal web site:

"Occasionally light buffing may be needed to restore the finish. Buffing must be done by an experienced applicator either by hand or slow speed buffing machine using a compound / polish and a pad recommended by the product’s manufacturer. Use a protective wax or polymer sealer to help maintain the gloss in the buffed areas."

and

"Avoid aggressive buffing which could remove too much coating from the surface and reduce the durability of the paint."

This sounds an awful lot like trying to buff or polish AwlGrip. You must use a sealer after you buff it to keep the shine and don't over buff or you will ruin the finish....

Essentially the linear polyester resins can not be re-melted easily. Re-melting is what actually happens when you compound or buff a painted surface. Because the window time of time between melt & disintegrate is so narrow with polyester LPU's it's nearly impossible, and totally impossible for a novice who has not had serious specialty training or lots of experience working with LPU's, to keep an LPU at the right temp to re-melt/polish without destroying it in the process. It sort of goes like this when buffing Awlgrip.

To cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, to cool, right temp for a split second, destroyed.......

Acrylic urethane two part paints such as Imron or AwlCraft 2000 can be buffed because the re-melt temp window is much wider and they don't cure the same as an LPU. The pigment on an acrylic LPU is the full thickness of the paint not sitting under the thin hard shell clear solids of an LPU..

This photo illustrates a destroyed Awlgrip finish. Note the shine on the majority of the hull even after many years. Now look at the center of the photo and you'll notice a large dull area. This is what happens when you chew through Awlgrips "protective shell". It is destroyed...

Post by **Tim** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:17 am

That's probably why I said this a few posts above. Note the highlighted text.

I wrote:It's true that one shouldn't buff traditional LPUs. But one doesn't need to, either. That gloss and color stays in good shape for many years with only water and soap. You can buff it, like any paint, but doing this will eventually affect that "hard shell" outer surface that gives solvent-based LPU paints their depth of shine and durability. The beauty is that you don't have to do this just to make the paint shine and hold up; it will do this all on its own.

Once you start buffing, you can't really stop. This is why the final step in any surface repair to LPU like Awlgrip and Alexseal is to apply Awl-Care polymer sealant, as it helps ameliorate the issues with removing that hard outer shell.

Maine Sail · Post by **Maine Sail** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:33 am

Tim wrote:That's probably why I said this a few posts above. Note the highlighted text.

I wrote:It's true that one shouldn't buff traditional LPUs. But one doesn't need to, either. That gloss and color stays in good shape for many years with only water and soap. You can buff it, like any paint, but doing this will eventually affect that "hard shell" outer surface that gives solvent-based LPU paints their depth of shine and durability. The beauty is that you don't have to do this just to make the paint shine and hold up; it will do this all on its own.

Once you start buffing, you can't really stop. This is why the final step in any surface repair to LPU like Awlgrip and Alexseal is to apply Awl-Care polymer sealant, as it helps ameliorate the issues with removing that hard outer shell.

Tim,

My questions were more pertaining to the quote by Ronin..

ALEXSEAL® not only outshines all of its competitors, it is formulated to be repaired in case the unexpected scratch may occur

I did not really understand how they could say that when the product is so similar to regular Awlgrip.

I guess the answer is; anything can be repaired, but at what cost??

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:12 pm

Here's my personal experience with repairing AwlGrip - offered up not so much as expert testimony, of course, but as one more person's experience... Weatherbird came with a well-executed AwlGrip job (Wayfarer Marine in Camden) that had a few scratches in it. No places (that I noticed) where the shine had been worn off, but scratches through the paint, showing white. The first thing I did (she was already in the water) was to cover them with electrical tape - which was surprisingly invisible on her black hull at any distance. The following spring before launch I touched up with black Interlux Brightsides (a one part paint) - after which I had to look really hard to find them - they easily passed the three-foot test. That doesn't solve the problem of an area having its shine abraded off, but for the odd scratch, it worked like a charm.

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:04 pm

I just spoke with a good sailor/builder friend of mine about paints. He built a Corsair 24 trimaran back some years ago and used System Three's LPU. After 3 years he said the paint started to chalk off. Has anyone else heard of this issue? He did mention that the issue could have been fixed since then by System Three but he didn't care to try it again.

He has since sold the boat and built another, larger Corsair 38 and said he used Alexseal instead. He is defiantly pushing me this way. And although I want to take his advice I don't see where I can get a satin finish with Alexseal, of course I haven't contacted the company yet. I don't like the idea of a mirror finish on my boat. I would much rather have satin.

So many options!

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:40 pm

There are flattening agents available for the glossy paints, that would probably give you what you're looking for - but you'd certainly want to try it out on something other than your hull first. Got a car you want painted, or a dinghy?

Interesting about the System Three not holding up - anecdotally I've heard good things about its longevity so far. I wonder if something went wrong with his application? No way to know, I suppose.

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:33 pm

Yea that is the problem, no way to ever know. Until speaking with him on Tues. I was 100% for the System Three, even had my colors picked out. Shaw Blue, Orca White for the decks and Bainbridge white for the non skid...

Of course he did say that "it's been a long time, if there were problems they probably figured them out by now." Then he went on about the Alexseal.

Hopefully some others will chime in about long term effects. He uses his boats hard, some 2-3 times a week all year long for racing. It is stored dry in the middle of downtown Olympia. But I can't see that or the frequency of use having any effect on paint chalking. Maybe I'll try to talk to someone with System Three to see if they have any info.

[img][img]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj14 ... trider.jpg[/img][/img] This is the boat painted with System Three LPU

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:34 pm

Gonna get a small batch of System Three LPU for testing on my fatty knees. Just because.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:36 pm

A5023 is the flattening agent for Alexseal.

Link: Technical Data Sheet A5023

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:37 pm

Thanks Tim.

David · Post by **David** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:42 pm

It's difficult to say why his boat started chalking with S3 LPU. It could have been user error; he could have not mixed the cross linker in the correct amount--or he might have left out the cross linker all together which is quite acceptable, just makes the finish less resistant to abrasion, chemicals and UV. He might not have put down enough paint. It's just very difficult to say. My boat was professionally sprayed with Awlgrip in 1995 and within 3 years it was fading, chalking and had lost most of its luster. I attribute the problems to not having a thick enough layer of paint over the primer. I sprayed my spars with System Three LPU in early 2005. The mast has been outdoors, subject to birds, sun, rain, etc. It still looks as good as when I sprayed it. Time will tell and no paint lasts forever.

David

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:36 pm

I agree. I've been looking for anything bad about the stuff online. Seems all I can find are people complaining that it's not glossy enough... That works perfect for me. I'm still leaning that way, especially after reading your blog. I'm not painting right away but I will be fairing, barrier coating and priming and want to be sure to use compatible materials.

I'm gonna get a small batch of the stuff and paint my dinghy with it.

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:54 am

I'm really liking the idea of a less toxic paint, and figure that since I'm learning how to do all of this I'm unlikely to get it perfect the first time around, and may find myself painting again sooner than I would if I had the technique down pat. Which means: if I try it and it is disappointing, I won't use it the second time when I repaint to fix up the problems that I had the first time around in about 5 years!

So if anyone who is interested can just hold off for five years or so I'll be able to tell you more...

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:18 pm

I'm going to go with the System Three for sure... Nothing last forever right? Besides I the non toxic part of it is EXTREMELY inviting. I'll be sure to follow the instructions to the T to be sure I did everything I possibly could. Plenty of coats and the cross-linker on the final coat, or where ever they suggest. Only time will tell for sure!

Thanks for all of the info as always!

David · Post by **David** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:13 pm

S3 LPU has nice self leveling properties and is very forgiving as to how much you wish to reduce with water. In the link below, this afternoon I put two coats of System Three LPU clear gloss on my dorades--over three coats of epoxy wet sanded to 320 grade. The mix was reduced about 50 percent with tap water making 2 ounces of material and I added 16 drops of cross linker. I applied it with a good foam brush. The LPU is dry to the touch but has a very wet look as you can see.

http://bristol29.com/Projects/Exterior% ... hape16.jpg

David

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:30 am

That's gorgeous, David - if that holds up like it ought to, you'll have found the way to have beautiful brightwork in the Florida sun! Keep us posted, please.

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:43 pm

That looks great!

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:03 am

Chris & Dave,

You both mentioned that you would be using this system about a year ago. Any additional thoughts, comments, opinions?

This is the year for me and I have to make a final decision.

Cheers,

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:17 am

I haven't gotten to the painting stage yet - depending on a few other factors, I should be doing it this spring or this fall, or next spring - but I'm still planning on using System 3. I expect it to be duller than the more toxic paints, but am willing to accept that compromise. And of course will post too many pictures and share my opinion of it once I'm done...

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:43 pm

Great! Thanks Chris. I'm in the same boat this year so I guess we'll both have something to show.

bigd14 · Post by **bigd14** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:40 am

Be careful with System 3 LPU. I used it and had major trouble- the paint peeled up in many spots and I ended up taking it all back off. You can check my Ericson 27 Project for more details. The final conclusion I think was that there were some areas where the paint went on a little heavier than it should have, and did not dry enough before I put the next layer on, which trapped moisture underneath and never allowed it to cure. I was working at the lower end of the temperature range, so that didn't help.

I have used the remaining LPU on some other projects at home in a more climate-controlled area and they turned out fine.

I would recommend using it when temps around 70-75. Put a coat on the in the morning and let it dry while its warm (but not too long). Check the areas where paint tends to collect (base of toe rails or cabin tops) and make sure its not still soft. And put it on THIN- thinner than you think it should be.

I'll be using Perfection, despite the toxicity.

Oh, and make sure you use sandpaper that is NOT stearate coated to sand the primer. The WRLPU doesn't like the coating and may not adhere.

Good luck,

Doug

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:12 pm

Thanks Doug for the input.

Seems like I can find several others who have said the same thing. I'm trying to determine wether or not I should continue being very careful to follow the directions and to a "T" but I'm still a little uneasy about a few things.

1. I have seen very little in the way of longevity tests with the stuff. A few like yourself mention the peal while the others say it looked like crap after only a few seasons.

2. I've used the resin disks already. Granted I've already ordered the AO disks from McMaster Carr but I will need to completely wash the hull and start using the AO disks, could this still create issues?... Possibly.

I guess what it came down for me was the fact that it is water based and looked easy enough for me to paint myself. But the more I think about it the more I think I need to go with something that has a track record and more history.

Thanks again.

preserved_killick · Post by **preserved_killick** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:05 am

I'll step into the discussion a little late with a vote for System Three LPU. I painted by boat May 2008, was very happy with the results and with two seasons it has held up great. I've dropped tools, dragged chain, even had a screwdriver slip and auger in.. and the finish does seem very durable. Looks very much like the day I painted it. No peeling anywhere.

I did however try to cheat varnish on a my toe rails by using a couple of coats of epoxy and just two coats of System Three's clear LPU and that did not hold up well. Or specifically, the epoxy has actually delaminated from the teak while the LPU seems shiny and sound. I don't think the clear LPU has much UV protection.

http://picasaweb.google.com/fongemie/Pu ... directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/fongemie/Pa ... directlink

Jeff Fongemie

Plastic Classic Forum

System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other

System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other

Tim et. al

From AlexSeal

Re: System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other

Re: System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other

Re: System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other

Re: System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other

Re: System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other

Re: System Three WR-LPU vs. Alexseal or other