Fundamentally, winter covers are a necessary evil, right? "Necessary" if you winter in a location that actually has Winter. "Evil" no matter what. This evil manifests itself in several forms;
#1 There are a number of canvas lofts around here that make extraordinary custom-fit covers. Vents all 'round, reinforcement and access panels in all the right places, built to last a decade or longer. I lust. I cannot afford, therefore, I lust.
#2 Both the technology and the application techniques of "shrinkwrap" have come a long way. Installing vents all 'round and having access panels where you need them drives up the cost pretty quickly, but if handled with care, a cover can be reused for a few years to ammortize those costs.
#3 I'll affectionately call this one "the Abyss". The ubiquitous big ol' tarp. Everyone seems to have their own system for support and tiedown, but I've yet to see anything that lasts through the second winter. By and large, I think it's good money thrown after bad, but at least it can be thrown from small pockets.
#4 No cover. Not a well advised option above latitude 40 in my opinion.
What's the right answer? As Regis used to say.... "Let's Poll the Audience!"
Winter covers
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Figment
- Damned Because It's All Connected
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
- Boat Name: Triton
- Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
- Location: L.I. Sound
Last winter I bought the cheapest tarp I could find, and cobbled together a frame with some 1x3 strapping lumber and duct tape. It kept the sun off, but the open ends allowed more rain than I liked, and the configuration of the frame made things pretty tough in terms of moving around on deck. I aspired to better.
This year I bought a heavyweight tarp that's probably about 20% larger than necessary in both directions. The heavier weight (the kind that's green on one side and black on the other) is proving to be worth the money. The large size is proving to be a big pain, as it's hard to manage the ends.
I had intended to make support frames of bent electrical conduit, but when I stopped by my father's place to borrow his bender, he talked me into using 1" PVC instead. Cheaper. easier to cut and join.
Bad move.
The pvc was reasonably easy to work with, and provided unobstructed deckspace. However, it just doesn't have the strength. It's collapsed under weight of snow twice so far. Today, I spent my morning crawling around under the tarp, heaving upward to unship huge chunks of ice. I have 2" of ice in the cockpit, and probably 6" in the bilge.
Heavy tarp gooooood.
PVC support frames baaaaaad.
Next year will see metal conduit frames, and (I hope) a shrinkwrap cover. Has anyone here had experience with shrinkwrapping a sailboat without unstepping the mast?
This year I bought a heavyweight tarp that's probably about 20% larger than necessary in both directions. The heavier weight (the kind that's green on one side and black on the other) is proving to be worth the money. The large size is proving to be a big pain, as it's hard to manage the ends.
I had intended to make support frames of bent electrical conduit, but when I stopped by my father's place to borrow his bender, he talked me into using 1" PVC instead. Cheaper. easier to cut and join.
Bad move.
The pvc was reasonably easy to work with, and provided unobstructed deckspace. However, it just doesn't have the strength. It's collapsed under weight of snow twice so far. Today, I spent my morning crawling around under the tarp, heaving upward to unship huge chunks of ice. I have 2" of ice in the cockpit, and probably 6" in the bilge.
Heavy tarp gooooood.
PVC support frames baaaaaad.
Next year will see metal conduit frames, and (I hope) a shrinkwrap cover. Has anyone here had experience with shrinkwrapping a sailboat without unstepping the mast?
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
I had reasonably good luck in the past with 1-1/2" PVC, which is much, much stronger than the 1". I used it on a couple powerboats that I owned. It needs lots of support on the ridge in order to prevent bending, collapse, etc. It tends to come apart at the joints. I used to glue as many joints as possible, which stayed together, but to maintain the potential for disassembly and reuse I was forced to tape some together. So-so. I don't know that I'd try to use it again.
I HATE shrinkwrap with a passion that is difficult to convey here. I can't tell you how many boats I have seen damaged by this crap, either from hull abrasion (it kills Awlgrip; obviously, ending the wrap at the rail eliminates this problem, but the applicators frequently don't do this), hull-related moisture/blistering problems caused by the trapping of heat and moisture beneath any overlap, severe mildew and condensation problems (yes, even with the stupid "vents"), peeling brightwork (from the moisture), etc. And don't even get me started on the expense and wastefulness of this stuff.
How can it be reused? I've never seen that, though I admit to not necessarily being "up" on any progress since I turn a disdainful and blind eye to the whole technology in the first place. Perhaps I'm missing something, but once it's shrunk down and tightly fitted, it's very difficult to remove it without damage, and I would think would be even more difficult to somehow refit. Is there more to this?
That said, shrinking doesn't always cause problems. But it sure can. And I can't ever imagine paying that kind of money for the junk. Add it all up and I can't see a good argument for it. Obviously lots of people disagree--it's about all you see in the boatyards around here now. They bring in special 30 yard dumpsters in the spring for its disposal (and supposed recycling, but who knows).
The canvas covers (often made by Fairclough) are good because they breathe, fit tightly, etc. I can only imagine how heavy and expensive they are, though. Definitely a serious investment, one to be saved for your Hinckley.
Tarps can work--and work very well. There are a couple important keys, however. First, forget about the el-cheapos. Buy a heavy duty silver tarp (or sometimes other colors) for twice or three times the price. Heavy duty is everything here. It's well worth the additional expense, and will get you a tarp that, if you do the rest of the job right, will last for years.
Second, a strong, well-supported, and tall ridge is a must. I found the unstepped mast to always be a good ridge, but this is not always an option depending on storage situations or, of course, if you leave the mast stepped during the winter. In place of a mast-ridge, nominal dimensional lumber (2x4s) are strong and inexpensive enough to do the job, and can be reused if assembled with forethought and care. If the ridge is tall enough, the need for a strong set of side frames is reduced. A steep pitch is always required, so if you want movability around the deck with the cover on, you have to raise the ridge so that your side supports end up still strongly pitched. Removing the lifelines makes a steep pitch easier, but reduces the space available on deck. My mast ridge was high enough that I didn't need any side supports at all to keep the tarp from holding snow, and needed only thin plastic electrical conduit to hold the tarps away from the hull. More on that here.
Also, use lots of padding on your supports and anywhere else the tarp hits. I used scrap foam and old sheets/towels to cover everything. Raw wood will badly abrade a tarp during a winter season, so it's worth covering it up with something softer. It takes more work initially, but is well worth it.
The third fundamental is that you need to prevent wind from getting beneath the cover, within reason. This is especially critical in most boatyards, which tend to be wide open to the winds. In a protected area, you can get away with a lot more, of course. The problem is keeping the tarp tight enough, while not so tight that the first wind rips out all the grommets. And oversize tarps are tough because it's very difficult to deal with all that excess fore and aft.
I like to use many of those mid-tarp connector things--they have a plastic disc, or sometimes a rubber ball, that you bunch the tarp around and then slide over a bracket which holds the tarp in place around the insert, and to which you tie your control line. These work very well when properly installed, but if there's not enough tension on the line they can come apart. I used to use these things often, not only to relieve the need to pull tightly on the cheapo (and weak) grommets in the tarp edges. (The grommets on HD tarps are better, but still not good enough to rely on.) Using these mid-tarp things meant that I could pull the slack out of the tarp wherever needed, and with good success.
To avoid the large tarp bunching problem at the ends, I had good luck with a 30' long heavy duty tarp, which covered the boat but left the ends exposed. During the early part of the season (October-November), I used to leave the ends open, making access and working inside more pleasant, but then as real winter approached I'd install a couple small, cheap hardware store blue tarps at the ends, just to fill in the holes. Because these small tarps were not trying to span large distances, securing them was never a problem. I put one at the bow and stern and secured accordingly. Worked well for me.
I tied my tarps away from the boat (as seen in the photos) because the tarps will abrade Awlgrip--plus I had the room. With gelcoat, there's little harm to come from tying the tarps inwards beneath the hull. In a tight boatyard with an Awlgrip or painted hull, where I would have to tie the tarp into the hull, I would have installed some soft padding/cloth between the hull and tarp. If room allows, driving tent stakes into the ground provides good holding for some or all of the control lines. They need monitoring until the ground freezes solid, and again in the spring when it turns to mush. But for the heart of the winter, they're solidly affixed.
To read about the evolution of my cover, click here. The first year I did it, it took a little adjustment over the first few weeks. The next two winters, it was a breeze to set up.
I used this cover for three winters, and the tarp is still in excellent condition (basically like new) ready for the next time the boat has to be stored outside.
Covering a boat with the mast stepped brings up additional issues. Shrinkwrap is commonly done around here on baots with masts up, and seems to work OK within the realm of the previously-ranted shortcomings of the stuff. Tarping a boat around a mast is much more difficult, but can be done successfully with some care and planning. I've never stored a boat with the mast up, so don't have any direct experience myself. The key would seem to be solidly attaching the two tarp sections at the seamage point in line with the mast.
I seem to be in a relative minority of locals who think that tarps work well. Well, the work well for me. No tarp/cover frame can be left the whole winter without frequent inspection and care. I'm also in the minority as far as not wanting to forget my boat for the whole winter, and used to enjoy my frequent inspection tours. Shrinkwrap caught on because it's a hands-off kind of thing for today's overly busy people. "Haul my boat and shrinkwrap it. I'll see you (and it) in seven months" seems to be the prevailing attitude. To each their own. I'll never be like that, and don't understand those who are.
I HATE shrinkwrap with a passion that is difficult to convey here. I can't tell you how many boats I have seen damaged by this crap, either from hull abrasion (it kills Awlgrip; obviously, ending the wrap at the rail eliminates this problem, but the applicators frequently don't do this), hull-related moisture/blistering problems caused by the trapping of heat and moisture beneath any overlap, severe mildew and condensation problems (yes, even with the stupid "vents"), peeling brightwork (from the moisture), etc. And don't even get me started on the expense and wastefulness of this stuff.
How can it be reused? I've never seen that, though I admit to not necessarily being "up" on any progress since I turn a disdainful and blind eye to the whole technology in the first place. Perhaps I'm missing something, but once it's shrunk down and tightly fitted, it's very difficult to remove it without damage, and I would think would be even more difficult to somehow refit. Is there more to this?
That said, shrinking doesn't always cause problems. But it sure can. And I can't ever imagine paying that kind of money for the junk. Add it all up and I can't see a good argument for it. Obviously lots of people disagree--it's about all you see in the boatyards around here now. They bring in special 30 yard dumpsters in the spring for its disposal (and supposed recycling, but who knows).
The canvas covers (often made by Fairclough) are good because they breathe, fit tightly, etc. I can only imagine how heavy and expensive they are, though. Definitely a serious investment, one to be saved for your Hinckley.
Tarps can work--and work very well. There are a couple important keys, however. First, forget about the el-cheapos. Buy a heavy duty silver tarp (or sometimes other colors) for twice or three times the price. Heavy duty is everything here. It's well worth the additional expense, and will get you a tarp that, if you do the rest of the job right, will last for years.
Second, a strong, well-supported, and tall ridge is a must. I found the unstepped mast to always be a good ridge, but this is not always an option depending on storage situations or, of course, if you leave the mast stepped during the winter. In place of a mast-ridge, nominal dimensional lumber (2x4s) are strong and inexpensive enough to do the job, and can be reused if assembled with forethought and care. If the ridge is tall enough, the need for a strong set of side frames is reduced. A steep pitch is always required, so if you want movability around the deck with the cover on, you have to raise the ridge so that your side supports end up still strongly pitched. Removing the lifelines makes a steep pitch easier, but reduces the space available on deck. My mast ridge was high enough that I didn't need any side supports at all to keep the tarp from holding snow, and needed only thin plastic electrical conduit to hold the tarps away from the hull. More on that here.
Also, use lots of padding on your supports and anywhere else the tarp hits. I used scrap foam and old sheets/towels to cover everything. Raw wood will badly abrade a tarp during a winter season, so it's worth covering it up with something softer. It takes more work initially, but is well worth it.
The third fundamental is that you need to prevent wind from getting beneath the cover, within reason. This is especially critical in most boatyards, which tend to be wide open to the winds. In a protected area, you can get away with a lot more, of course. The problem is keeping the tarp tight enough, while not so tight that the first wind rips out all the grommets. And oversize tarps are tough because it's very difficult to deal with all that excess fore and aft.
I like to use many of those mid-tarp connector things--they have a plastic disc, or sometimes a rubber ball, that you bunch the tarp around and then slide over a bracket which holds the tarp in place around the insert, and to which you tie your control line. These work very well when properly installed, but if there's not enough tension on the line they can come apart. I used to use these things often, not only to relieve the need to pull tightly on the cheapo (and weak) grommets in the tarp edges. (The grommets on HD tarps are better, but still not good enough to rely on.) Using these mid-tarp things meant that I could pull the slack out of the tarp wherever needed, and with good success.
To avoid the large tarp bunching problem at the ends, I had good luck with a 30' long heavy duty tarp, which covered the boat but left the ends exposed. During the early part of the season (October-November), I used to leave the ends open, making access and working inside more pleasant, but then as real winter approached I'd install a couple small, cheap hardware store blue tarps at the ends, just to fill in the holes. Because these small tarps were not trying to span large distances, securing them was never a problem. I put one at the bow and stern and secured accordingly. Worked well for me.
I tied my tarps away from the boat (as seen in the photos) because the tarps will abrade Awlgrip--plus I had the room. With gelcoat, there's little harm to come from tying the tarps inwards beneath the hull. In a tight boatyard with an Awlgrip or painted hull, where I would have to tie the tarp into the hull, I would have installed some soft padding/cloth between the hull and tarp. If room allows, driving tent stakes into the ground provides good holding for some or all of the control lines. They need monitoring until the ground freezes solid, and again in the spring when it turns to mush. But for the heart of the winter, they're solidly affixed.
To read about the evolution of my cover, click here. The first year I did it, it took a little adjustment over the first few weeks. The next two winters, it was a breeze to set up.
I used this cover for three winters, and the tarp is still in excellent condition (basically like new) ready for the next time the boat has to be stored outside.
Covering a boat with the mast stepped brings up additional issues. Shrinkwrap is commonly done around here on baots with masts up, and seems to work OK within the realm of the previously-ranted shortcomings of the stuff. Tarping a boat around a mast is much more difficult, but can be done successfully with some care and planning. I've never stored a boat with the mast up, so don't have any direct experience myself. The key would seem to be solidly attaching the two tarp sections at the seamage point in line with the mast.
I seem to be in a relative minority of locals who think that tarps work well. Well, the work well for me. No tarp/cover frame can be left the whole winter without frequent inspection and care. I'm also in the minority as far as not wanting to forget my boat for the whole winter, and used to enjoy my frequent inspection tours. Shrinkwrap caught on because it's a hands-off kind of thing for today's overly busy people. "Haul my boat and shrinkwrap it. I'll see you (and it) in seven months" seems to be the prevailing attitude. To each their own. I'll never be like that, and don't understand those who are.
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
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dasein668
- Boateg
- Posts: 1637
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:09 am
- Boat Name: Dasein
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton 668
- Location: Portland, Maine
- Contact:
I haven't had that bad of an experience with either PVC (supported in the center with a wooden ridge pole) or Just a strong ridge pole. The first two seasons I used an arched wooden ridge pole supported with 2x4s every 6 feet or so. Approx 6 feet headroom in the cockpit. Very nice. I didn't use any other supporting ribs, but the steep angle of the tarp shed virtually all of the snow as it was coming down. I occassionally had to push a small amount of snow off the side decks.
This year I used Tim's old system, which is also working well, but is giving me much less headroom, and makes it much harder to move around on deck. I also have had trouble getting it to remain as tightly tied down for some reason... I may go back to my old system (higher ridge pole) in the future. Though hopefully next season my boat will be indoors!
My tarp is one of the heavy green/black ones, 30 feet by 40 feet. It looks like it still has a couple years in it, this being its third. Not too bad for 60 bucks.
This year I used Tim's old system, which is also working well, but is giving me much less headroom, and makes it much harder to move around on deck. I also have had trouble getting it to remain as tightly tied down for some reason... I may go back to my old system (higher ridge pole) in the future. Though hopefully next season my boat will be indoors!
My tarp is one of the heavy green/black ones, 30 feet by 40 feet. It looks like it still has a couple years in it, this being its third. Not too bad for 60 bucks.
Nathan
dasein668.com
dasein668.com
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Figment
- Damned Because It's All Connected
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
- Boat Name: Triton
- Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
- Location: L.I. Sound
Fairclough-style canvas covers..... expensive to be sure, but I'd imagine that they've gotta be worth every penny. Heavy? ya, you betcha. At least Fairclough has the good sense to fabricate larger covers in sections. My father had a custom canvas cover (handmedown from PO) for his Luhrs 342. This was a FULL cover that reached down below the waterline, and all one piece. Manhandling this monster up and over the flybridge took at least 4 good men, as it weighed 800lbs when dry. Every spring we'd make the old man promise to have it cut into manageable sections that lace together, but every fall we'd get the same line "yeah, but I forgot about it over the summer. We're all here now, let's just get it done"
But it fit like a friggin glove. A thing of beauty. My fond and no-so-distant memory of this cover is probably the root of my admiration for the Fairclough covers.
Reusing shrinkwrap covers.... It ain't easy, but it's an art that's being perfected by a number of skinflints at my boatclub. The critical thing is to have it made a little large (farther down on the topsides than normal) in the first place. Cut, but do not lose the ends of, the perimeter strap, and then gently stretch one corner loose. it comes off pretty easily after that.
Carefully fold and store for the summer, and then choose a sunny day the next fall for re-covering. Lay the cover out on a sun-warmed piece of blacktop for a couple of hours (while you tape reinforcement to the well-worn spots) and it should stretch over the boat again without much fuss.
It won't have that sexy fresh-from-the-grocery-store vacuum sealed look anymore, but it does the job.
I speak of this practice with disdain, but after having lent a hand during various phases of the operation on a few different boats, actually I rather admire the ingenuity that goes into it. So far, the record is 5 winters on the same cover. This Miracle Man claims he's going to go for six, but we think he'll have so much patching and reinforcement to do that he'll come to his senses next fall. Three years seems to be the Threshold of Reason.
But it fit like a friggin glove. A thing of beauty. My fond and no-so-distant memory of this cover is probably the root of my admiration for the Fairclough covers.
Reusing shrinkwrap covers.... It ain't easy, but it's an art that's being perfected by a number of skinflints at my boatclub. The critical thing is to have it made a little large (farther down on the topsides than normal) in the first place. Cut, but do not lose the ends of, the perimeter strap, and then gently stretch one corner loose. it comes off pretty easily after that.
Carefully fold and store for the summer, and then choose a sunny day the next fall for re-covering. Lay the cover out on a sun-warmed piece of blacktop for a couple of hours (while you tape reinforcement to the well-worn spots) and it should stretch over the boat again without much fuss.
It won't have that sexy fresh-from-the-grocery-store vacuum sealed look anymore, but it does the job.
I speak of this practice with disdain, but after having lent a hand during various phases of the operation on a few different boats, actually I rather admire the ingenuity that goes into it. So far, the record is 5 winters on the same cover. This Miracle Man claims he's going to go for six, but we think he'll have so much patching and reinforcement to do that he'll come to his senses next fall. Three years seems to be the Threshold of Reason.
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tikvah59
- Master Varnisher
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:12 am
- Boat Name: Emily Hope
- Boat Type: Nimble 30' yawl
- Location: Milton, MA
- Contact:
To avoid the crushing weight of snow you do need a tall ridge and steep sides. My shelter is a variation on the 1x theme. The supports are 2 lengths of 1x3 with blocks of 1x between them. You can put a curve in them this way. The supports go all the way to the ground. This structure lets me move around easily, as there's probably 4 or 5 feet of clearance over the highest point of the cabin roof. I don't know if I'll put the time into erecting this again once the painting's done and the boat's in the water. Somewhere I have actual plans for making a similar structure, but I didn't use no stinkin' plans to build this one.
BTW, how did the guy's wife get him to stop reading her email? She put it all in a folder called, "Instruction Manual."
BTW, how did the guy's wife get him to stop reading her email? She put it all in a folder called, "Instruction Manual."
Emily Hope
Nimble 30' yawl
Nimble 30' yawl
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Robert The Gray
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:54 pm
- Location: Oakland California
- Contact: