Cabinet Saws

[Tim]

I'm soon (within a year, anyway) to be in the market for a new cabinet saw (tablesaw), and have just begun researching the choices. Frankly, there are too many products in each manufacturer's line; I have trouble telling the differences between some of them.

Anyway, there are pretty much three brand choices: Jet, Powermatic, and Delta. All three seem to share very similar characteristics. I wonder if anyone with some experience with any or all of these might have some insight as to the performance, or any must-have features.

Note that these are the full-blown cabinet saws, not the contractor saws.

Some specific areas on which I would enjoy some input:

1. My current saw, and most contractor saws, have left-tilting blades. While you can get any cabinet saw with a left-tilt blade, most are also offered with a right-tilting blade. My question is: why would one want a right tilt blade? What performance difference might this make?

2. I will have a 50" fence and full outfeed table. Most of the saws are offered with either the "house" fence, or an optional (usually same or similarly priced) Biesemeyer. While I lean towards the Biesemeyer fence, I honstly doubt there's a big performance difference between the Delta Unifence, Jet/Powermatic Xacta-fence, and the old standby Biesemeyer. Anyone have any specific comments here?

3. These saws are all minimum 3HP 230V, single phase, which is likely where I will end up. Still, some of the saws are offered with 5 HP and 3-phase electric. I don't think I truly need the 5 HP saw for what I do. However, I don't know what the difference between single phase and 3-phase is. Can anyone explain this in laymans terms?

4. I know that many feel the industrial Powermatic saw is the best performer. But how much, if any, tangible difference is there between any of these three brands, when comparing similar price points and features? All of these cabinet saws featured finely ground, heavy tables, precise fences, and so forth. Any real negatives to any of these three saws?

5. I know there are some great old saws, but I'm not going to be searching for a used tool. I will be buying new, and pretty much expect it to be one of the three brands mentioned here, unless anyone has another suggestion that I have overlooked. I'm steering clear of Craftsman, as I think I can do better, and also will steer clear of the imported tools.

Thanks everyone. I'm interested in any and all opinions and thoughts.

[CharlieJ]

Tim- I won't even try to advise you on which saw, although the Powermatic is considered by some to be the Rolls of cabinet saws. I have a 1946 model Delta that still runs just fine. It's all a matter of tune and blades for the most part when you get to that level.

On the blade tilt. I used a left tilt for a long time, my Delta has a right tilt. I can't see much difference at all once I got used to the set ups for a right tilt. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other far as I'm concerned.

I think if I got the Powermatic I'd use their fence, otherwise I'd get the Biesemeyer fence. I still use the old standard Delta fence and sometimes it's a pain. If I wasn't just almost to retirement I'd think about the Biesemeyer fence myself. Too old to change now though.

My Delta runs with a 3 HP 220v Baldor with triple belts. I've NEVER bogged the saw even cutting full depth cuts on 100 year old heart yellow pine. It just walks on through.

Three phase power was quoted to me to cost $3000 to set up into the shop. I passed. My brother has a phase shifter of some sort in his machine shop for his huge lathe ( he turns gun barrels). It fools the motor into thinking it's getting 3 phase and seems to work fine. For me, in my shop I see no reason for anything past the standard 220 volts though. The machines just don't work hard enough in a one man shop to require 3 phase. PLus I would find it hard to justify the need for a 5 hp motor until you were doing long production runs of some sort..

Steering clear of Craftsman machine tools isn't a bad idea these days. I have a few OLD Craftsman tools in my shop and they are fine- but the newer ones just don't have it compared to other brands.

Hope this helps a bit.

[The Good Goose]

Tim
I think the biggest issue with the tilt is that you want it away form the wide side of the table and fence. To avoid kickback you need to tilt away from the fence. If the blade tilts away from the fence when iti s on the wide side of the table it gives you the ability to rip angles on sheet goods more easily. I'm not aware of any other issue other then that.

A friend had both a unisaw and a powermatic in his shop and he much prefered the powermatic. Don't know if he was comparing apples with apples but he said the unisaw would bog down quicker then the powermatic. He used a power feed a lot and he said he couldn't use it as well on the unisaw.

If there is one machine you want the best you can afford it is your tablesaw. Unless the price difference was huge I would opt for the powermatic .

Brock

[heartofgold]

Tim,

Charlie and Brock both give excellent advice. The easiest way to evaluate a saw is to first ask, "What do you want your saw to do?" Another angle of the same issue is to decide what your current saw does not do that you would like it to do. Does it bog down? Does it cut deep enough? Do you feel safe operating it? Is it easy to set cut width? Are you inclined to attach a jig to your fence?

When I asked myself these questions, I wanted a more powerful saw with a superior fence, capable of handling a variety jigs and other attachments. For me that would mean the Powermatic with the Biesemeyer fence, or possibly another, more elaborate fence system (if I had the money to invest in such a mythical tool). But I can't say how you would answer that question.

I remember a couple of years ago, American Woodworker had an excellent comparison of cabinet saws. Very enlightening, if I recall, but I can't seem to locate the issue (I'll keep looking and keep you posted).

[catamount]

Tim,

Just in terms of brands, another that you may want to look at in addition to Delta, Powermatic (both made in USA), and JET (made elsewhere, i think), is General (made in Canada): http://www.general.ca/

Regards,

Tim

[Tim]

Thanks for all the good advice, everyone!

Doug, if you turn up that article, let me know.

[heartofgold]

I'm still looking. No joy as of yet, but many of those mags are burried in a little accessible area of the shop.....

[Tim]

Having never really looked closely at any of these saws, my next step is to check them out in person somewhere.

FWIW, further research indicates that the Powermatic 66 is probably the way to go, but the Delta saws are close contenders. The price difference is about $400, with Powermatic being more expensive. Honestly, I don't think it would make much practical difference either way, but we'll see what a close inspection reveals.

Yes, of course, I lean towards the Powermatic, despite all that.

For anyone interested, I ran across this page during my research. What is most useful is the links at the bottom to the independent reviews of several of the saws.

Selecting a Tablesaw

Jets are imported, so they're out of consideration for me in this case.

[Tim]

Well, as of today, I'm the proud new owner of a Delta X5 3HP cabinet saw, with left tilt and 52" Biesemeyer fence. I picked it up today from Bath Industrial Sales in Bath, ME, and assembled the saw and fence at the new shop. It came with a free mobile base, which I wouldn't have purchased separately for my needs, but since it came with, I decided to go ahead and use it. It might just come in handy.



I researched online as much as I could, reading reviews of both the Powermatic and Delta saws. Neither ever emerged as a clear favorite, as there were negative reviews of both tools, evenly dispersed amongst the positives. In the end, I went with the Delta because it looked like a nice saw, and I never could find a local dealer with a Powermatic on hand to have a look at.

I haven't run any stock through the new saw yet, but I did fire it up today, and just the way the saw started and ran was worlds different from the old Craftsman contractor saw that I've been using for 10 years. Setup and assembly wasn't too bad at all.

Now all I need to do is build a huge outfeed table.

[Summersdawn]

You're killin' me Tim ;-)

[dkall]

The only thing your missing is the new gizzmo (don't actually know if it on any saws yet) that when the blad touches any part of the body it stop dead. My brother inlaw said he watched a guy demonstrate it at a show by turning the saw on and grabbing the blade. Heard only that it would add $100 to the price but seems like excellent insurance. Also as I said don't know if it's available yet.

[Figment]

I think we actually had a thread on the Saw Stop thing, but as I recall the cost was in the thousands.

Nice looking machine, Tim. Go make some sawdust!

[dasein668]

we actually had a thread on the Saw Stop thing

Thread here.

[Tim]

If Saw Stop markets the safety device separately, as a retrofit for other brands of table saws, I will likely buy one.

I chose not to go with the Saw Stop saw because of its very high price compared to the others, as well as no local dealerships (there are actually no dealers at all; it's all manufacturer direct). But I have suspected all along that the technology for their revolutionary safety device would probably end up being offered to other saw manufacturers, and also to users for retrofit. For $100, I'd grab it in a pair of seconds. An extra $1000 or more, as it would have been to choose their nice-looking cabinet saw, was enough to make me say no.

[heartofgold]

Now all I need to do is build a huge outfeed table.

Yea, one big enough to handle a full sheet of plywood!

Happy cutting. (I'm so jealous!)

[Tim]

I fired this saw up yesterday and ran some material through for the first time. Wow, what a tool! I cut some MDF to use for my new bench tops, and the saw cut it like butter, never even slowing down. The difference is incredible. (OK, so MDF isn't the toughest stuff to cut, but my old saw would have balked.) I have only had the pleasure of using such an excellent saw once or twice in my life previous to this (and quite a while ago), so I was unprepared for how nice this saw truly is.

While this isn't permanent, I threw together a temporary outfeed table out of an old door, some sawhorses, and a sheet of plywood, which allowed me to easily cut the large sheets of MDF. I hope I never need to use my old Craftsman contractor's saw (at my "old" shop) again. Now it will seem intolerable.



For a permanent table, I plan on an outfeed table made from at least 1-1/2 sheets of either MDF or possibly Melamine: one full sheet, oriented lengthwise, running off the lefthand (main table) side of the saw, and a 4x4' section off the righthand (extension table) side of the saw. I don't think two full sheets are necessary, since only cutting sheet goods will require the widest settings on the fence, so the 4' depth of the righthand section of the table should be adequate. We'll see. But it sure is nice to have the space available to contemplate such large outfeed tables. Combined with a freestanding workbench several feet behind the saw, this should all make cutting sheet goods and long stock almost easy.