Thinking of Downsizing

D. Fox · Post by **D. Fox** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 5:03 pm

Hi Tim,

Just discovered your new board...great idea! Since you've created the forum, thought I bend your ear (and others) about something that I've been thinking about.

This is my third season in my Bristol 27. I like the boat and have enjoyed her, but I'm thinking about getting something smaller. In the past two seasons, we've spent maybe 5 nights aboard, so the vast majority of our time on her is spent daysailing. I'd like to be able to single-hand, but she's not set up for it and seems like she'd be a handful even if she were. While she's in decent shape, she could use some work.

It seems like it might make more sense to get into something that is cheaper to own and slip, can be easily singlehanded, is more conducive to those one or two hour after-work daysails, but would still be usable for the occasional overnight. I'd also like it to be trailerable so I can store it in my garage over the winter where I could work on it. I'm thinking something along the lines of a Cape Dory Typhoon, or maybe as big as an Electra, Ensign, or Alberg 22.

What do you all think? Would I regret the lost bulk and volume of my B27? Considering the trend towards "upgrading" into ever bigger boats, it almost feels sacrilegious. Any thoughts are appreciated,

Dan

Geoff Adams Sr. · Post by **Geoff Adams Sr.** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:36 pm

Hello Dan, I've been there. The small boat I mean. I used to own an Alberg Seasprite 23 ('57 vintage) when I lived in Clinton, Ct. Kept it on the Thames across from the sub base. It was truly wondeful. I used to work 2nd shift so I would go out for a couple of hours in the morning. It was great. On the weekends (tuesday and wednesday for me, seniority you know) my brother-in-law and I would just hang out on the boat.

Peanutbutter and jelly never tasted so good washed down with cold iced tea! With the sub base in the background blowing taps at 5:00 pm to lower the flag, those were just terrific times.

You may be well rewarded with the move to a smaller boat.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Apr 17, 2003 10:34 am

Hi Dan,

Nothing can be more overbearing than a boat that is more than you really want!

If you have feelings like you should donwsize to something more basic and essential, then it is probably the way to go! I doubt you'd regret it. The difference in simplicity between something like an Ensign and your Bristol 27 is much more than most people think.

I loved my Ensign when I had her, and miss the boat. That said, I wouldn't trade my Triton for anything, since we do use and enjoy her cruising ability. However, rarely have I had more fun "just sailing" than I did on my Ensign.

If you want to overnight, probably the Ensign isn't the right choice--though, of the boats you mentioned, the Ensign is my favorite, and probably the most "essential". But if you don't really think you care about overnighting, it might be the right thing. The Electra and A22 have more in the way of accommodations, which might be good for you. The Sea Sprite 23 and Kittiwake 23, two other Alberg designs, are worth looking into as well.

I am a big fan of having the right boat for what you need, and no more. I think you are heading in a smart direction, and will be happy to offer more insight if you'd like. Don't waste your time and money on more boat than you want or need.

Tim

D. Fox · Post by **D. Fox** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:23 pm

Thanks to both of you for the thoughtful responses. Its a lot to think about...don't want to make a mistake. I think if I did get something smaller I might move back up in a few years as time and resources permit.

Tim, you didn't mention the Typhoon in your response...is that damning with faint (or no) praise? I think the A22 might be ideal, but they're fairly few and far between. I also live in a community where you can't store a boat in your yard or driveway, and don't think I could get something that big in my garage. Trailering could be a problem too. I'd like to be able to haul the boat to Annapolis for the GOB regatta and elsewhere for various events.

Anyway, thanks again for the input and any more advice is appreciated,

Dan

Post by **Tim** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:48 pm

Dan,

The Typhoon is a fine boat too. They're just so small! If I had my choice of the boats you initially posted, the Typhoon would not be at the top. Very little, and very tight--definitely less boat than the Ensign or A22, for example. (Note that the A22 shares a hull with the Cape Dory 22, often called the Typhoon Weekender, I believe.)

But if the storage concerns are a key factor, then you might need and want the smaller boat so you can fit in your garage. I think the main issue for you will be height, and the overall length of the boat when on a trailer. How big is your garage--standard 24x24? With 8' high doors? I bet any of these boats on a trailer would be a pretty tight squeeze.

Don't mind me, though. If the Typhoon fits the bill for you, then I think you'd be pleased with the performance--classic Alberg, after all. But it would be a major change from your 27. Typhoons just seem puny to me--somehow, the Ensign seemed a lot more than 3' bigger.

Just rambling...

Tim

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:39 pm

Tim,

The CD22 is the "typhoon weekender"?
I ask because I have a cash job on the line.... a guy wants his typhoon (which I assume to be the CD18) hauled from CT to Freeport sometime this summer. the 18 I can haul, the 22 might be a different story.

I thought the typhoon weekender and daysailor were both on the same hull, but with different cockpit/cabin compromise. I also remember something like one having a fractional rig and the other a masthead, but that may have just been an option on either model.

Either way, you're right about the smallish "feel" of the size. This is probably due to the narrow beam. But I suppose everything's relative. To someone coming off of the typical lightweight 18' centerboarder, the full-keeled typhoon must feel HUGE. Other than the Herreshoff 12 1/2 (aka "bullseye" aka "doughdish"), I can't think of a smaller keelboat.

Ain't it great how a boat can have more than one name?

Post by **Tim** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:25 am

OK...I guess I may have been a little off. But they have 27 different models all the same size, which is dumb and confusing! Who knew.

There's the regular (19') Typhoon, which apparently is officially called the "weekender". There's also a more open version built on the same hull, called the "daysailer" (Sorry...I like DAYSAILOR myself, but this is how they, and many others, spell it...why I don't know. Sailor is spelled with an "o"; how it ever became daysailer is beyond me. But I digress.)

From this, it appears that the "regular" Typhoon may be called, officially, the "weekender."

What I was confusing was the Typhoon Senior, which is 22' in length. It seems to have slightly different specifications than the CD 22, differing by an inch or two here or there, so it may not be the same hull--I'm really not sure. They look darn similar, for sure. The Typhoon Senior featured a fractional rig, while the CD 22 has a masthead rig.

In any case, I'm pretty sure that what we know as a Cape Dory 22 is the same hull as the Alberg 22.

I regret my earlier categorization...sheesh, there I go, blathering garbage off the cuff. That'll teach me. (Probably not)

In any case, I recommend you do a quickie measure of the boat you're supposed to haul to double check its length! But it sounds like it might be the "regular", or "weekender", Typhoon.

Tim

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:39 am

Tim wrote: (Sorry...I like DAYSAILOR myself, but this is how they, and many others, spell it...why I don't know. Sailor is spelled with an "o"; how it ever became daysailer is beyond me. But I digress.)

Digression extension:

Ok, I'll bite on this one. I like the look of "daysailor" better, however....

sailor (n) [alter. of sailer]: 1a. one that sails, esp: mariner; 1b. a member of a ship's crew; 2. traveler by water.

sailer (n): a ship or boat esp. having specified sailing qualities

definitions from: Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition

Sooooo, technically, I think daysailer is really more appropriate, however, by stretching the "traveler by water" definition a bit--a boat travels by water--I guess we could say "daysailor" and be covered...

Post by **Tim** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:52 am

Hmm. Interesting. Now why didn't I think of looking in the frigging dictionary?

I still prefer the "o". "Sailer" seems sort of an antiquated word, in definition and spelling. I'm traditional and all, but there are limits. It just looks wrong to me, and that's unacceptable.

For coming boldly out in disagreement of the forum host and moderator, I hereby reduce you (ala-kazaam) to lifetime "bottom sanding grunt". Let that be a lesson to ya, mistah!

(Just kidding, of course!)

Tim

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:56 am

Hey now! I didn't disagree. I merely pointed out accuracy! hehe. Plus, as I stated, by stretching the sailor definition, you are correct! Always look for the silver lining Mr. Moderater Sir! ;-P

Post by **Tim** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:19 am

A shining example of proper groveling. I hereby lift the burden of lifetime "grunt" from your shoulders and reinstate your appropriate party status.

Watch and learn, folks!

Hey, if we can't have fun, what's the point, right? All messages tinged with humor and biting wit.

Tim

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:43 am

(sigh) You Mainers sure are easily entertained.

<wink>

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:06 am

Its our long cold winters. Screws up the brain...

Post by **Tim** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:59 pm

Mostly, it's the fact that winter still hasn't left us!!!

Though they say it might be pretty nice tomorrow. Dare we hope? Work will be blown off in favor of working on the boat, to be sure.

Tim

D. Fox · Post by **D. Fox** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:33 am

Tim, thanks for the comments on the Typhoon. I haven't ever been on one so I don't have a good understanding of the dimensions, particularly inside. I'm trying to get out to see one that's for sale near here in the next week or so. I'll let you know what I find.

Dan

daysailor17 · Post by **daysailor17** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:25 am

Just wondering, I have always loved the Typhoon. A truly salty litle boat. I had considered one at one time. Having to pay slip fees in WI means all the same considerations you mentioned. I actually "raced" on one when I was a kid, it was a really WET boat as I recall. (The guy gave up and bought an S2 7.9. That is far more a proper raceboat, ugly as all get out of course.) Not bad if you like a little cocoon of cabin, I could sit uprght inside when I was 12.

wstokes · Post by **wstokes** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:09 pm

If you are seriously considering downsizing, then go for it. However, in saying that be carefull that you don't compromise too much comfort doing so and by that I mean does your better half agree with you. If so, then may I recommend a few boats to consider.

1. C&C 24, these are great little boats reasonably roomy, fun to sail and reasonably fast. Perfect for what you described.

2. Tanzer 22, another great little boat.

3. If you want to single hand a lot, then consider the Haman 20/21 (Nordic 20/21). These are semi full keel boats, normally found with trailers, and are very sturdy.

Here is a link to a site that gives an overview on sailboats specs and pricing: http://www.sailquest.com/market/models/index.htm

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