The perfect next sailboat

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George ( Triton #236 )

The perfect next sailboat

Post by George ( Triton #236 ) »

What is the boat you guys dream about cruising in. Here's my short list of six boats I think are "classic". Well built, offshore hull forms, fiberglass ( so I can fix things out in the boonies), and just good looking.

1. Shannon 37 or 43
2. Pacific Seacraft 40
3. Hinckley South Wester ( any size )
4. Southern Cross 35
5. Mason 43
6. Pearson Triton



I had to put the Triton on the list because it too is a true classic. Especially if you can't afford the $100,000 to $600,000 for the others. Also, all of the above boats look best as yawls, except maybe the Southern Cross. I think for extended cruising though, it's best just to set them up as cutters and the Triton as a sloop.

George
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Post by Tim »

I think my "perfect" cruising boat, beyond Glissando, would have to be another project boat that I built to my own specifications, frankly.

One reason for this is cost--all the wonderful cruising machines currently available tend to be well beyond any price range I would even dream of considering. There are any number of 40-50' machines that would be admittedly wonderful to cruise on, but let's get real here!

The only reason I would even want something other than my Triton would be for just a bit more storage space, tankage, and elbow room in the cabin. Glissando, as she is today, is outstanding in all ways for long cruises, and does everything we ask of her and more. With the addition of a trailer, our cruising horizons could be expanded even further.

Key requirements for a cruising boat (for me):

1. Good looks (got it)
2. Good looks (yes, this is important) (got it)
3. Draft 5' or under (got it)
4. Good sailing ability in a variety of conditions and apparent wind directions (got it)
5. Engine access that allows for easy repair and maintenance (got it)
6. Excellent galley (room for improvement now)
7. Desk or permanent table (dinette, perhaps?)
8. Substantial water and fuel tankage
9. Self-sufficiency
10. Affordable cost (to buy/build, and especially to operate)

Last fall, I tried to buy an Allied Seabreeze 35' yawl that had been in a fire, but the owner decided to keep her and bring her back himself. Rats. A bare-hull Seabreeze, reconstructed to match our own needs and desires, would be about perfect. Especially a yawl.

I learned some things while rebuilding Glissando, things that I would like to put to the test on another boat someday. It's a constant learning experience, and since I like projects and such, I think I would very much enjoy the opportunity to create my "ultimate" cruising boat from a bare hull, or close. So, a broad and loose search for candidates is always underway.

For me, cruising would be an escape from "real" life, and, as such, I favor the more simplistic approach--though not bare bones, either. But this is why the Triton suits so well. I could only see replacing her with something larger if we decided to make our home permanently aboard--something that probably won't happen for some time. More likely, we'll take frequent long cruises of a few months' duration, or longer as desired, and return to our home base in between.

Frankly, I don't want to work hard enough to afford a big fancy boat--I'm a slacker at heart, after all. If money were no object, then I would be more apt to go larger, more complex, etc. There are any number of new boats out there that I do like--but none of them are in my realm at the moment. That's a post for another day.

A little beyond the original topic, but what the heck--it's my forum! ha ha

Tim
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Post by Old Ben Gun »

MoonCaptain66

More on Sparkman & Stephens Classics

Post by MoonCaptain66 »

The boat the appeals to me is the Yankee 30. http://storm.prohosting.com/yankee30/ This boat has long overhangs but not quite the high ratio of lwl to lod that Carl Alberg designed. The Y30 is a good performing boat (read speed), goes to weather, is offshore capable, and some boats can be acquired for under 15K. Please don't buy up all the available ones before I get my $ together.

Enjoy!
George ( Triton #236 )

The one it turned out to be

Post by George ( Triton #236 ) »

Hi All,


It's been a little while since I first posted this topic but I was sent an "action" shot of my "C&C 40" from a Leukemia Cup regatta a couple of days ago and thought I might share my impressions of the boat. ( I'll have Tim post the picture ) Also, to let everyone know what I finally came up with as "The perfect next sailboat".

As some of you know I purchased and restored Pearson Triton #236 a few years ago and cruised and raced her on the Chesapeake Bay with my wife Denise. I loved that boat although my 6'3" body just didn't fit anywhere in the boat very well and she wasn't particularily well suited to PHRF racing in the spinnaker classes on the Chesapeake -- and I love flying the spinnaker.

The quest was then "on" to find the perfect next sailboat for what we do in our area. The main criateria being a boat I could fit into, that could sail to her PHRF rating in a spinnaker fleet, that could cruise in the shallow waters of the Chesapeake or the Bahamas, that would be able to compete in a Bermuda race, and would be comfortable and easy for my wife and I to handle cruising. After lots and lots of research I decided that, if I could find one, a "C&C 40" with a centerboard would be "the perfect next sailboat". These boats were built between 1979 and 1983.

To make it happen I had to look for a few months and open my search up to the whole of the North American continent but finally found my boat. -- As a side note I would say that opening up my search to such a huge area really paid off for me and the shipping from Sandusky Ohio was a grand total of $1,943 plus $300 packing and $200 unloading for an overall total of $2,443. Not bad at all to long distance truck a 40 foot boat.

Now, a few months later, I would have to say that I couldn't be happier with my choice. She's beautifully put together and there is not a single crack or broken piece of tabbing, anywhere on the whole boat. With the board up she only draws 4'10" and board down she draws a nice healthy 8' 6" for racing. ( I wasn't particularily looking for a centerboard boat at first but reviews of the "C&C" 40 kept mentioning that it had one of the best centerboard system they had ever seen )

The boat is extremely comfortable and has all the extra's - hot and cold running water, shower, TV, microwave, 3 burner stove and oven, etc. As a sailor I love the fact that she was built as a sailboat first and everything else came second to that. The rig is built like a tank. The chainplate system is just short of amazing. She has full hydraulics for the backstay and vang. Everything is extremely well balanced. The bunks are all fore-aft with lee boards and right on the boat's balance point. The interior is beautiful too, mine is one of only three centerboards built at the factory with the optional "teak ceilings package". Essentially, the whole interior is a light reddish hand rubbed teak - 3/4" thick, with a glossy teak and holly sole.

Most of all she is fast! I rarely see the underside of 7 knots and often race above 8 knots. Top speed on a beam reach in 20 knots of wind is 9.3 knots. This not only makes racing fun, but opens up whole new cruising grounds. She's even good in light airs and will do over 5 knots of boat speed in 5 knots of wind. All that and I get to fly a spinnaker that measures 55' on the luffs with a 30' foot. Cool!

Anyway, that is what turned out to be the perfect next sailboat for me here on the Chesapeake Bay. I think Tim will put the picture below.


George Jones
C&C 40 "Delphinus"
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Post by Tim »

Here's the great picture of George's C&C.
Image
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Post by Tony »

George, is the C&C 40 anything similar to a C&C 31 Corvette as far as hull shape?
Tony
George ( C&C 40 )

Post by George ( C&C 40 ) »

Hi Tony,


Tough to say. I looked at a few pictures of the Corvette on Yachtworld and the 31 seems to be drawn on lines similar to the Triton -- Modified fullish keel and narrow. The 40 is a bit wider relative to its length ( 39'7" and 12'8" ) and has more of a canoe underbody matched to a racing fin keel or a centerboard. It's also a much newer design than the Corvette 31.

The Corvette appears to have a more balanced rig whereas the C&C 40 is heavy on the Genoa. They are both masthead rigs though.


George Jones
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Tim
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Post by Tim »

Tony wrote:...is the C&C 40 anything similar to a C&C 31 Corvette as far as hull shape?...
This one's easy: No! They are extremely different. The C&C 40 was designed in 1979, at a time when the now-defunct IOR racing rules were the way of the world. As a result, her design is heavily influenced by these rating rules: wide beam, with maximum beam well aft; narrow stern with pinched buttocks and skeg; canoe hull with flat-ish midships sections; tall masthead rig with very high aspect mainsail and huge genoas; high aspect fin keel and spade rudder (or a somewhat lower-aspect fin keel with centerboard within, in the centerboard versions).
Image

The 40 is near and dear to my heart. I grew up sailing on one--my Dad bought one in 1980, and we raced and cruised her extensively for many years. He owned her for almost 20 years (she was sold in 1999). It was a great boat: fast and easy to sail, very forgiving, well-balanced, and a comfortable cruiser. I'm a big fan of them, and think that the design has aged extremely well. While it was thoroughly modern when designed in 1979, it now appears almost classic in appearance. Nicely done, C&C!

This is Kapalua, which was the boat I grew up on. Maybe someday I'll buy her back.
Image


The Corvette, a child of the '60s, features a full keel, attached rudder, and shallow draft with centerboard. Her design is one that was influenced by the CCA design rules, much as were the Triton and similar designs. She is narrower, with long overhangs and a "traditional" look.
Image
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Post by Tony »

Thanks guys, the reason I asked is I was looking at a corvette last night. I couldn't find any pics of the 40's bottom, and was hoping to find someone who had some experience on a similar boat. I thought that if the C&C 40 was also a centerboarder, maybe they were similar.
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Kapalua

Post by Shark »

Kapalua is a very handsome craft. It's my favourite colour scheme, dark blue with a white deck. We have many C&C boats around here as a lot of them were built here in Ontario.

Is the name Hawaiian? What does it mean?

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Post by Tim »

Kapalua is Hawaiian and means "arms outstretched to the sea".
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Dave, 397

Post by Dave, 397 »

Well, on a whole 'nother tack, I'd like the A30 a whole lot were it not for a couple objections/worries about the iron ballast. They could be resolved, but it would take a fair amount of messy work. Other than that, I really like the A30.

Of course, there is the A29 that one of the forum members has, looks real nice!

And...a grail of sorts to me, although not an Alberg...the Pearson Coaster. Looked real hard for one, in fact. Three months after I bought my POS Triton, I heard from a guy that bought a real cherry Coaster with all kinds of good gear, in real nice shape, out of a backyard about 100 miles from me for 3500.00! Ouch!

Truthfully, my personal holy grail...would have to be a Pearson Alberg 35 Yawl...with spruce booms...and (ssshhh!) a Vetus electric drive!

Dave
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Post by dasein668 »

Dave, 397 wrote:and (ssshhh!) a Vetus electric drive!

Dave
aaahgh! Dave, my world is coming crashing down! ;-D

That Vetus is a nice solution for a lot of boats. Would be a nice back-up for someone who is essentially engineless, but wanted an option other than the ole sculliing oar in a pinch...
Dave, 397

Post by Dave, 397 »

Well, remember my near miss at owning the Medalist?

Yes, I was going to carry sweeps...but I was aloso going to carry an outrigger bracket and the biggest trolling motor Minnekota makes, just in case. Either that or an old Silver Century.

Personally, I think anything over 12000 pounds laden...is getting a bit porky to handle on the sweeps. I'd not have wanted to do it in the Medalist if I were tired, sick, or hurt...and with Mary's pasted-together back, it would have been out of the question for her.

I know a fellow with a Columbia 36 who has a golf-cart motor in the boat, and it works fine for him...he got tired of sculling her and for his 45th birthday, gave himself the time to figure out the system (he's a Naval Architect by trade).

My one big hesitation...would be how much drag the aperture (and prop) represent that could otherwise NOT be there. One idea I had in my head was an electric drive motor running a hydraulic pump...which could couple vis-a-vis dry-connect couplers to a hydraulic motor which could mount over the side and swing a prop. I guess if I end up with my dream A35 someday, I might try it.

But I'll tell you...it would have to be one cherry A35. This keel-up job on the Triton is bad enough!

And you know...for the amount I have paid in yard fees and building rent alone on this project...my little Commander would have been fully fitted, fully found, and ready for anywhere! Man does that 3 feet overall, and that 3 inches on the beam translate into something exponentially larger, more costly, and more complicated!

Dave
Dave, 397

Post by Dave, 397 »

OK...I'll go one further step in describing my 'ideal next/bigger boat'...but it comes under the heading of the dream/wish list as opposed to the attainable.

Take an Ariel/Commander hull and scale it up to 31 feet or so, with a Commander house arrangement. At that size, you'd have standing room if you weren't over 5' 9" or so, I'd guess (Mary is 5' even and had standing room in DECISION. Actually, my friend Robb who is 6' 7" really loved that boat, too, he just went around below on his knees and was at a pretty ideal height!). Make the 9' cockpit into 10 or 11 feet to keep it all in scale...and there you go!

There is a good amount of lift in that hull! I mean, beam-reach, whaddaya-mean-bow/stern wave trap-lift! I'll send Tim a couple of pics to illustrate the point, maybe he'll post.

There is probably some good reason that Mr. A never did this, design-wise. Despite the old joke that Carl just made one boat and it was either a bit larger or a bit smaller depending, I've stood under enough now to see that each design is considerably different than another. I kinda see, from the instrument-maker point of view, what Alberg was getting to...and I admire the way he went about it, starting with a general design he liked and felt worked well (the Hinckley 21) and going from there making subtle and fairly small changes...but numbers of them...in each design, working towards some end result of development it seems. I hazard to guess that old Carl was my kinda guy in a lot of ways.

In all of it, I have a distinct loyalty to Alberg boats, just because I know what to expect...and because they work so well. I was scared to death with the Medalist I'd be disappointed if I got her.
At that rate, I have a sorta gut-level loyalty to old Pearson product. I am sure that there are plenty of other good boats...I just lean hard towards what I know and feel good with. My pal Jay has always made the distiction that old Pearsons are SOLIDLY built boats but not necessarily WELL BUILT boats...and I'd have to agree. Crude in places, hurriedly built, you bet. Nasty interiors, check! But...these things can change, right? I guess they do have a sort of industrial feel, but that suits me fine. Pearson boats, like Alberg's designs...have an inherently honest feel to them, and I like that.

I finally got most of the piled up crap off the top of my Triton the other day...and you know, I've even got used to the blockhead doghouse. Looks good to me! Then again, I've got it pretty bad...I'm not real big on Aeromarine Triton, but there is one in the harbor that I have been walking down to look at and actually admire every few days for inspiration!

I guess they grow on you. Have one long enough, and even a Commander is a beautiful little boat.

Dave
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Post by Tim »

Dave,397 wrote:Take an Ariel/Commander hull and scale it up to 31 feet ...
Hey, I need another project. Do they make Xerox machines for fiberglass?
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Dave, 397

Post by Dave, 397 »

Don't I wish!
Boy...the possibilities of that one boggle the mind, huh?

Just for grins, I gotta ask of our East Coast guys...does anyone know if there is ever going to be anything done out of that (appears to be) Triton mold outside the 'Triton Factory'? Is the deck mold with it? Just idle curiosity...but I can't help but drool at the thought of a vacuum bagged, epoxy-kevlar Triton! Hang on, Kids!

Given the bulk of a set of molds, it is a wonder if any ever survive anything, really. I figure that all the Alberg-era molds were long ago scrapped well before the decline and fall of the Pearson company...but I can't help but really drool at the thought of finding a set of Ariel/Commander molds in a field somehow and saving all my pennies for a year to get them trucked home! A super-light, super-strong, Super Commander sure sounds hot!

I realize I am ambling off-topic here, but just for curiosity I wonder if anyone knows whether the Pearson molds were pulled from actual wooden 'plug boats' or if they were pulled from lath-and-plaster plugs? I asked Mary's dad, but he worked in the Spar shop (and laminating sometimes) and had no idea...and when I had the chance to speak with Everett Pearson it just seemed too stupid and trivial a thing to ask. Just wondering. The wooden plug hull for the Buchan 37 ended up getting finished off as a boat eventually, and I have seen her actually sailing Puget Sound, a quirky piece of history.

Best,
Dave
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Perfect plastic cruising boat

Post by Jim Pendoley »

My Pearson Vanguard gets it done for me. In most respects I'd say its perfect except that my daughters are getting under foot as they get bigger (have to start cutting back on the rations.) Water tankage is low at 40 gallons. Next dream would be an alberg 37 or a rhodes reliant-but with increased size comes increased cost and complexity. Better the boat you own then the one tied to the bank, I guess...
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