Stimson shed

This is the place for information on various types of permanent and temporary boat shops and other project shelters.
A30_John
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Post by A30_John »

I'm curious about the extra framework you built to give your ridgepole tarp more clearance on the sides. How was that set up?
Basically, I stood 2 x 4s on edge and put them up against the side of the boat. I used nylon cable ties to fasten them to the stanchion bases. Then I built a pitched roof support structure out of 2 x 4s and connected them with 1 x 3 strapping. I also put a line of strapping around the frame level with the cove stripe on the boat and another even with the boot stripe. It is this strapping that protects the Awlgrip from tarp damage and provides the space between the tarp and the boat.

This picture, taken during assembly, will show you what I'm talking about.

http://www.roundthecorner.com/blueteal/Frame.jpg

After this picture was taken I added vertical supports under the pitched roof supports (one at the mast step and another in the cockpit) and I also added braces under the boat to connect the vertical 2 x 4s. In addition, I also ran lines through the tarps from the winches and attached them to screw-in mobile home tie-downs as additional support against the wind.

I will use the same structure this winter, but I'll be increasing the angle of pitch on the roof. Increasing the pitch will cut down some of the work space under the cover, but will help shed the snow better. To be safe, last winter I went out and knocked the snow and ice off. I'll do the same this winter, but I still think the additional pitch is important.

The cost for materials was about $250. The tarps were another $150.00. This winter I'm thinking about covering the frame with shrink wrap instead of tarps. It would be more expensive, but an improvement.

I built this cover late last fall as a disposable, cheap and quick solution to the impending winter. It's far from being the last word in boat shelters, and I'm not sure whether I'd recommend it to others. But it protected the boat, provided very good ventilation, and made a decent shelter for working during the rainy spring weather. But some day I hope to have a boat barn!
John
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Post by Rachel »

John,
Thanks for the information on your structure. The photo link really helped me to visualize it. I guess it wouldn't be fully appreciated by a marina/yard that didn't want "structures" due to the verticals touching the ground, but I appreciate the input anyway - and I'm not sure where I'll end up yet.

Reading Britton's post about the yard actually trying to "sell" him on coming there made me want to bring my boat right straight to Massachusetts! It sure does get tiring calling up places that don't seem to want you and your project boat, and then hoping you can convince them that you're worthy... How nice to be wanted :-)

--- Rachel
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Post by bcooke »

Reading Britton's post about the yard actually trying to "sell" him on coming
Well, I must say I was pretty surprised myself. I just wrote out a check today so I guess I will find out if they are good at their word.

As for moving to Massachusetts?... Coming from the midwest, the culture shock might kill you. Warm, friendly, and welcoming are not adjectives I think of when describing my ancestral home. I have left before and I will leave again... soon enough.

Thanks for the input. I am not sure if I am going to get a structure up this fall or wait until next spring. After two months on the boat my metabolism slowed to a crawl. Picking back up to Massachusetts speed has been painful. I want to go sailing...

-Britton
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Post by dasein668 »

Yeah, Britton, it sounds like you need to move on from the good ol' commonwealth...
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Tim
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Post by Tim »

bcooke wrote:I want to go sailing...
Geez, Britton...the last time I talked to you, you couldn't wait to get home and start ripping the boat apart again! hehe
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Post by bcooke »

Funny how that is. When I sail I want to rip and tear. When my hull is dry I want to sail. I guess that about sums me up. I am never satisfied. I am looking forward to firing up my grinder and mixing my first batch of epoxy in several months. Sitting in a fog bound boat writing lists of upgrades and staring at crazed gelcoat and funky rigging was driving me crazy.

I hauled out today at a new yard. The good news is that they are shed friendly. The bad news is that they like to keep them to a maximum width of 12 feet. Not nearly enough but I think I can keep busy for a year or so before I really need the width. By then I will have won the yard manager over to my cause.

I have definitely been grumpy the past week. I apologize to the entire board and thank you all for your forebearance. I will be better now.

-Britton
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Post by A30_John »

Britton, congrats on finding a yard!

I'm interested to see what you do re: shed with a 12' width.

What will your first project be?
John
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Post by bcooke »

What will your first project be?
Clean. Then strip her to the bare essentials. Then everything else.
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Post by Figment »

Skip the cleaning. Just start stripping. There will be plenty of cleaning to do later.
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Post by bcooke »

When the cruise ended I tied off to a mooring and rowed ashore with only a quick backward glance. I hadn't had a shower in a week or so after all. All my dirty laundry is on the boat as is various food stuffs. To haul the boat I had to sail through some pretty sloppy conditions yesterday which scrambled things a bit and then I had to anchor just off the ramp and take down the sails, boom and misc. stuff before the trailer arrived. That is the stuff I need to clean up.

I want as much as possible out of the boat before I move inside with a grinder. I already learned that lesson.

That was a rather flippant answer to a reasonable question about first projects. My list is about five pages (single spaced) long. If Tim's bad influence convinces me to buy an all new rig that will save me half a page but... Grind off crazing gelcoat, prep and paint deck. Replace toerail. Insulate interior and install all new plumbing and electrical systems before installing cabinetry and galley systems. Replace engine controls and instruments. Prep and paint hull. I think that about covers it.

First projects... I think it is very unladylike for a boat to spew bilge water out of the middle of the transom in a crowded harbor. The images that come to my mind are unacceptable. I need to take care of that. I will probably grind a little at a time from the decks, how about insulate interior and when it gets too cold I will work on replacing all my rigging and reworking my spars in my basement. That should keep me busy for a few weeks.

-Britton
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Tim
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Post by Tim »

bcooke wrote:If Tim's bad influence convinces me to buy an all new rig...
I highly doubt there's a need for a new rig, but if, after researching, you find that your rig improvement list (not counting running and standing rigging replacement) is approaching several thousand dollars somehow, perhaps full replacement is worth exploring. You'd have to need to replace an awful lot on your existing spar to approach that figure. I don't know what's needed, and many of the desirable upgrades cost the same whether you're working with an old or a new spar.

Of course, once you start talking about a complete rig overhaul, including new lighting, internal halyards (and associated hardware), replacement of various bits of hardware and the like, it can come criminally close to the cost of an all-new spar. So much depends on your expectations.
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A30_John
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Post by A30_John »

Britton, I'm rewiring my boat too. Maybe we can compare notes. In preparation, I've been busy studying the ins and outs of how to build an electrical system. I bought Charlie Wing's boat wiring book. Any other references to good practical sources of information, examples on Web, etc. would be very helpful. I've found Tim and Nathan's sites to be very helpful - thank you for sharing this information gentlemen.
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Post by Tim »

There's always the old standby, Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual--a technical but informative tome on these and other subjects. It's worth having in your repertoire for sure.

For a kindergarten approach, there's Don Casey's Sailboat Electrics Simplified, a decent companion to Charlie Wing's textbook-like book.

A description of a more basic system (compared to Glissando's overly complex one) can be found on the Daysailor site:
http://www.thedaysailor.com/rebuilding/ ... rical1.htm

It's tough to find sources that describe exactly what you're trying to do yourself. It's best to absorb lots of information from a variety of sources, and then use that to determine your own plan of attack for your specialized needs and wants aboard.

Some basics, though:

1. Don't skimp on quality of connectors or wiring. Quality is worth whatever it costs here.

2. Don't run wires through the bilge, except to the bilge pump--and then keep them as high as possible except for the drop to the pump. For that matter, with a deep bilge, the best pump to use is an impeller or diaphragm pump located remotely from the bilge, with only a suction hose extending into the depths. These will also draw more of the water out and don't backflow like the junky centrifugal pumps.

3. Consider 12 ga. for all your primary wiring, rather than 14. Some of your longer circuits will likely require the 12, so why not just use it everywhere? Then at least you can buy in bulk.

4. Keep it neat and organized. Use lots of wire clamps and supports. Label the wires at each end.

5. I used the self-stick wire tie holders on the Daysailor electrical (you stick them on, then secure with a single screw), and am forever converted. The price they get for these things is absurd, but they make life easier since the base stays where you want it while you screw it in place--great for blind areas and one-handed stuff (which is common in places where you run wiring).

6. Get some decent crimping tools, assuming you're using crimped connectors. You'll never regret spending more for the right tool for the job. This goes for cutters and other related tools too.

7. The little chef's propane torches are great to have aboard for general wiring use, but if you're ashore with AC power a heat gun works well for heat shrink and adhesive-lined waterproof butt connectors. The torch works well ashore too, of course.

Obviously there's a lot more to it than this, but a few basics never hurt.

Wiring from scratch is great fun and one of my favorite jobs. I go overboard with straight leads, auxiliary fuse blocks and bus bars, and the like because it's so fun to organize everything so. (OK, I'm a wiring geek, I guess.)
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Post by bcooke »

What was this thread about again?...

No, I don't need a new spar. As long as you don't use your (Tim's) evil influence on me I don't plan on upgrading the mast. Even the boom can wait even though there is more justification for it.

I think Tim summed up an electrical primer better than I ever could. I haven't done too much research myself other than write a wish list of what I want installed. Buy a large connector, kit several spools of wire and go to town. That was my plan.

-Britton
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Post by A30_John »

What was this thread about again?...
It's about the Stimson shed (and all the things you can do with your boat once it's in the Stimson shed)!

Thanks for the wiring tips, Tim. I've printed out your post, and I'll be referring to it frequently. And, thanks for the tip on 12 gauge wire. I was hoping to standardize on one size of wire, and I couldn't decide whether to use 12 or 14. 12 it will be. Stand by for more questions once I've roughed out my plan.

Sorry about hijacking the thread, Britton... I'll start a new one next time! ;-)
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Post by bcooke »

No, no, I hijacked it first and continue as per my modus operandi Why my registration hasn't been revoked before now is a mystery to me :-)

-Britton
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Post by dasein668 »

Tim wrote:3. Consider 12 ga. for all your primary wiring, rather than 14. Some of your longer circuits will likely require the 12, so why not just use it everywhere? Then at least you can buy in bulk.
My math came out with 14 gauge being ample for all my runs (except where I used cable), fwiw. But it doesn't hurt to go larger either.
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Post by Tim »

I also used mostly 14 ga. when I rewired Glissando, but I chose 12 ga. for the mast wiring and the longer run to the sidelights at the bow pulpit. I just used all 12 ga. when I wired the Daysailor. If you're running a 5-amp current draw at the top of your mast, say 40' one way from the panel, then the round-trip 80' run at that amperage does justify the 12 ga. wire when using the 3% voltage drop rule.

The basic graph for voltage drop that you can find in the WM catalog is as good a source as any for choosing your wire size. I always used the chart for the smallest voltage drop (they have charts tor 10% and 3% drop).

http://www.westmarine.com/pdf/0660_ETRIC_MC04.pdf

If there's no clear need for 12 ga., then one could certainly standardize with 14, which is more than adequate for most situations, particularly given the low current draw of most fixtures we might put on a small sailboat. I chose the slight overkill of 12 ga. for the longest runs aboard, figuring it wouldn't hurt, but 14 surely would have done the job too.

Note than when I wired my mast originally, I had a larger masthead light with a larger current draw. My current Davis Megalight is a power miser and draws only fractions of an amp, so the choice of fixture at the end of a longer run is of course very important to your wire size choice. I might not have come to the conclusion that I needed 12 ga. if I had been installing the low-draw light initially.
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Post by dasein668 »

Ah, right. I was only running an LED all-around at the mast head, so for me I could have gotten away with 22gauge for that run. But if you are using a standard halogen or incandescent, then I can see that the voltage drop would be an issue. And my sidelights, at the time, were still on the side of the house.

Also, every current draw on my boat has its own complete circuit (red and yellow) so no circuit is ever carrying more than about 5 amps and most are carrying much less. If you wire your boat with all of your cabin lights run in parallel (or heaven forbid, series) on a single wire run than you'll want to use 12 guage at least.

The price difference?once everything included in a complete electrical system is added up?between 14 and 12 just isn't that much. Doing it again, I would have probably gone with 12 standard.
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