Winter boat cover - tarp/support

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Rachel
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Winter boat cover - tarp/support

Post by Rachel »

Tim,

I would love to hear a bit more on the tarp/support system you put on Kaholee. It looks so "doable."

One particular question I have is how the PVC pipes terminate at the ridge. If I understood correcly, you put line through the pipes and then somehow use it (them) to join two separate pipe sections where they meet at the ridge. Is this right? How exactly does the rope go from one pipe, across (through?) the ridge, and then to the pipe on the other side? Are there holes or fasteners where the pipes meet at the ridge, or is it just the line(s)? Then those same lines go under the boat to meet the overrun of the pipe on the other side and hold the whole works together?

For those not following the Kaholee project, here's a photo of the frame I'm talking about:

Image

Thank you,

Rachel
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Tim
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Post by Tim »

This is the same general system I've used on Glissando for years. Please visit the appropriate area of that site for more details on the inception of the original frame that Kaholee's is modeled after. (The site is still moving to its new server as of 11/16, so you may not find the page right now. It should all be up and running within the next day; I will try and get you the right link at that time.)

I like this system, but with several caveats:

1. You need a fairly high ridge so that the tarp forms its own pitch without needing framework to support it, and so that any snow will slide right off, not collect. Normally I'd envision the mast as the ridge, but in this case I had to build the ridge since the mast wasn't on the deck. I just use lots of line to secure the ridge. If you do it right, it works. Again, you need a pretty seep angle on the tarp. Paying attention to the boat and cover during the winter is also important.

2. The lifelines and stanchions have to be removed.

3. The plastic pipe here has no strength, and is really there only to keep the tarp away from the hull so it doesn't rub. The pipe doesn't do any real supporting of the cover here. Pulling the lines tight between the bottoms of the pipes does bend the pipes into a bit of a curve that provides a tiny modicum of support to the cover.

4. Success with this setup for me has also relied upon the lines run to tent stakes in the ground, which hold things firmly. If you don't mind if the tarp rubs against the hull, you can tie it pretty tightly beneath the hull and eliminate the stakes. Tarps and painted hulls don't go well together, though, so that's why I took the steps to keep the tarp away from the boat.

Details: the line between the top of the pipes drapes over the ridge. I use black tape to tape it all in place. Since the pipes don't really need structural strength, this works well. It sounds hokey, and it is, but it works. You need to tie the pipes in place where they cross over the toerail; on Kaholee, I located the three sets at each stanchion location, making this very easy.

It takes longer to build this the first time, but once it's done, I can set up and cover my boat in about 30 minutes, including taping chafe gear over the full length of the mast. The entire Kaholee materials collection, frame build, cover, and boat move took a total of 4 hours over 2 days.
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Post by Figment »

Tarps and painted hulls don't go well together.
I've been mulling this one over for weeks.

I built a dandy frame last week out of 3/4" conduit. I bought a big ol' green tarp. I just couldn't bring myself to actually cover the boat yet, partially because I haven't devised a good way to "float" the tarp away from the surface of the hull. Tim's tent-stakes approach would be considered unneighborly, but perhaps the use of plastic-pipe outriggers could work.

But then I just know that the wind will get under it and death will soon follow.

What's my alternative? Get it glove-tight? If so, how do I protect the paintjob?
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Post by Tim »

I suppose one could put a soft fabric between the hull and tarp for chafe protection. Tough to keep it where you need it, though. I'm not sure how you'd go about it.

The wind will get beneath any tarp that's not tightly secured; loose tarps are the death of many a winter cover. That's the beauty of the tent stakes--it allows a tight tarp without it being strapped tightly against the hull. The tent stakes won't work everywhere because of space and neighborly concerns, or paved yards, for example, but if you have the luxury of the space around the boat, they're hard to beat.

Another option is to install a sort of sill around the gunwale (such as to the lifeline stanchion bases), and secure the tarp directly to that (above the hull), and remove the excess. I did this to another boat this season; I'll get a photo later.
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Post by Figment »

Keeping a soft layer in place doesn't concern me so much. (have you tried staples?)

I'd be more concerned that a perpetually-wet cloth would do a whole other kind of damage to the paint.

Bubblewrap?
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Post by MikeD »

FWIW, I had good luck the last couple of seasons with the "filled milk jug anchors". I only had two to a side hanging about a foot or so off the ground, and one for the bow and another for the stern. You can hang a jug from a couple of grommets with an attached line. The weight keeps the tarp hanging down and the grommets away from your topsides. This setup stood up well to some pretty good storms. Of course, the boat was in the side yard, so I could continuously check on it and tweak it and clean snow off.

This year, I wrapped her up with lines down under the keel. My topsides need painting anyway...
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Post by Hirilondë »

I haven't covered my boat yet, so no pictures. I use a firrin' frame and a green poly tarp (a new one each year). My boat is about to endure its second winter since the paint job and there was no damage to the paint the first winter. I use a tarp large enough (35'x20') that the grommets overlap the bottom paint, and not the topsides. I lace the tarp at the aft end like a shoe as I go aboard quite a bit over the winter to do work. I have no stern pushpit, so aft access is easy. The rest of the tarp stays tightly lashed.
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Post by Tim »

I should add that my system isn't much good for working on the boat during the winter; not a lot of room to move around on deck. There's headroom in the cockpit, though, so it's fine for going to and from the cabin.

My concern with the tarp causing damage was always the poly fabric causing the paint damage, not the grommets specifically. I'm interested (and happy) to hear that the tarp doesn't seem to cause damage to the paint on Dave's boat.
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Post by bcooke »

I am tempted with the milk jug system but I worry about a good nor'easter (50kt +winds) getting under the tarp and sending it flying across town. Has the system been proven under these conditions?

A couple of years with tarps and strings against my gelcoat made a mess of the gelcoat too. It took a lot of sanding to clean it up.

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Post by Rachel »

Tim wrote:2. The lifelines and stanchions have to be removed.
Ah, right, of course. Maybe that's why it seemed different - I just couldn't put my finger on it.

I'll check on the Glissando build for details. I knew there had to be more on this somewhere, but I wasn't sure where to look. Thanks for the reference.

Britton, folks on Lake Superior use the frozen jug tarp weighters on a regular basis. I always had the same horrible thoughts you do, but I don't think I've heard of it happening. And there are some windy spots in boatyards on the lake there. Still not sure I'd use them, but then I'm chicken.

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Post by MikeD »

I'd have to say this setup held up admirably through the storms from last Fall and Spring. It could use some "ribs" to support the tarp when it snowed, but it was in the side yard so I could just step outside and shake the snow off.

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Post by Tim »

Just remember that some sites are less exposed to the wind than others. If your boat is in between trees, you'll see a lot less wind action on the tarp than if the boat is in the middle of an open boatyard.
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Post by Tim »

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Post by Rachel »

Thanks, Tim. I had somehow never read that section. Very good information. I know that the tarp folding description alone is going to prove very useful.

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Post by Figment »

Image

Image
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Post by Rachel »

Hee!
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Post by dasein668 »

Unique.
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Post by Tim Mertinooke »

Not to say we don't have our share as sailors, but that type of thing seems so "powerboat"...
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Post by Figment »

Sadly no, not unique, but it was the most easily photographed of those who'd taken that approach.

As far as the "powerboat" thing goes.... hey man at least it's keeping the snow off. A few sailboats in the yard have covers that leave you wondering why the owner even bothered.
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Post by Tim »

Is that blue masking tape, blue duct tape, tarp repair tape, or door #4?
Figment wrote:hey man at least it's keeping the snow off
I wouldn't tape all over everything like that, but as you say, at least for the moment it's a cover that's doing a good job at what it's supposed to do.
Figment wrote:Tarps and painted hulls don't go well together.
I've been mulling this one over for weeks.

I built a dandy frame last week out of 3/4" conduit. I bought a big ol' green tarp. I just couldn't bring myself to actually cover the boat yet, partially because I haven't devised a good way to "float" the tarp away from the surface of the hull. Tim's tent-stakes approach would be considered unneighborly, but perhaps the use of plastic-pipe outriggers could work.

But then I just know that the wind will get under it and death will soon follow.

What's my alternative? Get it glove-tight? If so, how do I protect the paintjob?
Speaking of which, what did you end up doing about this?
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Post by Figment »

I think it must be blue duct tape or possibly the blue shrink-wrap tape (which means he spent more on tape than on the tarps) because I really can't imagine that masking tape would last this long.

I decided to go with a glove tight split-tarp solution, to turn my 20x30 tarp sideways and "stitch" a smaller tarp to the end to make up for the shortfall in length. This worked a little too well. 30' is just too long of an up-and-over dimension. It's workable at the middle, but just WAAAAAY too much material to gather and control at the ends. So I unstitched and went the other way, still with two overlapping panels.

20' is juuuuuust not quite enough to go up-and-over from waterline to waterline. I'd need 23' at least to keep everything off the topsides.
But it's a slippery tarp, tied with slippery polypropylene rope, so my hope is that paint-chafe will be minimal. Of course I've been obsessing over it, stopping to check it over at least twice a week, all is well so far. I think the rock-solid frame helps to prevent things from getting too dynamic.
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