Bristol 27 bulkhead replacement.

[Jay]

Hello, this is my first post here at the Plastic Classic forum. I just bought a 1971 bristol 27 in need of new bulkheads (and more). Does anyone know if the 2 aft bulkheads are necessary? There are no chain plates attached and the forward bulkheads are beneath the mast step. My previous boat (bristol 24) was similar in size and sail area and only had one bulkhead.

I was curious since I'd like to modify the layout of the settee.

Tim, if your reading this it's the B27 on Rt 1 in Wiscasset. I'm a big fan of your NYR site. Your latest restoration of Circe is inspiring to say the least.

Thank You

Jay

[Case]

The aft bulkheads probably could be removed with minimal loss of strength for the boat. The forward ones likely are the most important bulkheads and be sure they are fine.

However, I gotta say this... if the bulkheads need replacing, the deck core often is in poor shape. They're often related though I am a tad mystified how the aft bulkheads needs to be replaced since there are no chainplates attached to it... Most times bulkheads go bad because of leaks thru the chainplates. Pictures would be nice...

Incredibly, I know which boat you are talking about, my warehouse is just 3 miles from that Bristol. I never did look at it (it wasn't for me) but do love the lines of the hull. Its similar to Fizz, my Sea Sprite 23. The Sea Sprite 23 was the first of a long line of similar fiberglass Alberg designs.

Congrats on your new Bristol!

- Case

[tomwatt]

The aft bulkheads... on my Bristol 24, dinette version, there is only the port aft bulkhead. Comparing floorplan layouts, it looks as if I can easily cut out the port one as long as I reinforce the step/hatch area. I don't know which floorplan your 27 has, but the dinette version of a B27 is similar. Quarterberth penetration into the area under the cockpit seats, etc. You should be able to pull the aft bulkheads as long as the area under the step/hatch is solid and reinforced (the dinette version's quarterberth has a partial wall that runs inboard of the berth that seems to reinforce the cockpit area. None of this is authoritative, just based on what I'm looking at.

[Ceasar Choppy]

I'm not that familiar with the intricacies of the Bristol 27. The layout, however, is similar to many 27s from that era including a Pearson Renegade 27, of which I know a thing or two.

If you are thinking of removing bulkheads at or near the companionway, you might reconsider as these are the main structural bulkheads. The reason these bulkheads get destroyed is because many times the bolts of the genoa track come in directly or nearly on top of them. When the bolts holding the track down leak, the bulkheads get wet and rotten.

Since I have no direct experience, I'm only speculating and so I might be way off base here, but that was my experience on a similar boat.

[Jay]

Thanks for the help everyone. The bulkheads I am considering leaving out to are forward of the companionway. They are the first two for the head (port) and hanging locker (starboard).

The decks seem solid (not spongey) but I'm sure they could use a good inspection. The boat was uncovered for the last two seasons and I noticed a lot of condensation a few weeks ago so that could of been causing most of the damage. The bulkheads with the chainplates are definitely worse off and rotted where the leaks water leaked in.

I have to pick my battles for spring 2010 to get her sailing. She may be bare as a J boat this year.

Jay

[Hulukupu]

Jay,
My bulkheads were heavily modified by the previous owner, who created many large cutouts in them. Having spent several hours watching ocean surge pressing a hull up against some rocks, I can say in my particular situation the bulkheads were serving well to protect the hull from more extensive damage. You'll have to ask others regarding how much you can remove without weakening them for important functions.

[Tim]

...it's the B27 on Rt 1 in Wiscasset...

Ah, yes. I actually just drove by that again on Monday, after passing by her a number of other times during her stay on the road there.

The bulkheads I am considering leaving out to are forward of the companionway. They are the first two for the head (port) and hanging locker (starboard).

Is the bulkhead layout similar to that of a Triton, with two sets of bulkheads closely spaced (and thereby defining the head)? And you're referring to the after set of bulkheads, which separate the saloon from the head?

I can't say for sure in your case whether or not they are structural. In Tritons, I determined that the second set of bulkheads--the set defining the aft end of the original head compartment--is not structural, and acted only as partitions. Yours may be/probably is similar, but I don't have enough information or intimate knowledge of the B-27 to definitively determine that at this time.

[Hulukupu]

Tim,
Out of curiousity, how did you make the determination that the second partition was not structural?
Thanks. D

[Rachel]

Jay,

Welcome to the forum! And congrats on Owl :)

From what I remember, the after/head/hanging locker bulkheads on the B-27 are similar in nature to the Triton's. A minor difference is that because the boat is shorter overall (and has a longer lazarette due to the motorwell) that bulkhead comes right at the downward curve where the upper doghouse joins the lower coachroof.

I would think (but of course I'm not looking at the boat) that they are non-specifically-structural, although of course every bulkhead is stiffening the boat somehow, assuming it is tabbed in or otherwise secured.

If you are thinking of lengthening the settees (I can see why you might want to as the stock arrangement has the foot end running under the galley counter, a la Ariel), you might be able to keep a decent amount of the support, by leaving the portion that would run under the settee flat, and even a "ring frame" of sorts at the outboard/upper edges.

Another idea would be to make one/both sides a trotter box, so that you are essentially keeping the bulkhead(s) (or the new ones, that is), but just cutting a hole.

That said, you may be fine going without it altogether - I'm not implying that it needs to be kept for sure.

Again, welcome!

Rachel

PS: Where do the after-shroud chainplates attach - to a separate knee?

[Jay]

Rachel,
Yes there are knee's forward and aft of the bulkhead. I think I have enough to go on now. I may construct smaller bulkheads supporting the deck and meeting up with the settee / sole like you explained. Support there couldn't hurt and it will give me some meat to join the settee and shelf or what ever else I decide.

I may look into using a lighter weight option that is resistant to water damage from condensation. The material I read about is called nida core. More research needs to be done. The main bulkheads will no doubt be the thickest mahogany ply I can find.

Thank You
Jay

[avd155]

I actually had the same question when re-designing my interior. I talked it over with a one of my boatyard buddies (who is much more advanced than me and really does his research about boat stuff) and he seemed to think it wasn't and I basically agree. Although this was already mentioned, if you compare the design to the Tritons of the same size, they actually don't have this bulkhead. Though, the Tritons do have a "mast-step reinforcement beam" (not sure on the technical name for it) and that might be worth adding if you decide to remove those bulkheads.

I also believe that I've seen the the "Dinette" and/or the "Weekender" Bristol 27 models missing these bulkheads by design. Here is one example of that design: http://users.rcn.com/rgroleau/wh5.html

You might also find htis link useful. It's a large collection collection of Bristol 27 images, which, might offer some inspiration: http://bristol27.com/photos/bristol_ima ... e_archive/ (one of the images on the last page of the gallery seems to show at least one of these bulkheads removed).

Personally, my interior design is focused on a stength, safety and blue water capability, so I have chosen not to remove the bulkheads. Instead, I am keeping all 4 bulkheads as they were and I'll be converting the hanging locker into an icebox and the head area will be the same. If I were building more of a coastal cruising/family boat, I would seriously consider removing them, but I might beef up the mast step if this were the case.

After my design process, I learned that the cockpit bulkhead can be scooted back a bit which will allow for larger berths, albeit at the cost of some sea locker space. But, this allowed a good size berth and storage inside the cabin, rather than the voluminous sea lockers. Just something to think about.

[moose]

Jay,

I just bought a '66 B-27 and the previous owner had ripped the salon-head bulk head out, well, all but 4" of it. He glassed it in. PM me if you want photos of what a blue water sailor with 50 years on the sea did to her (or was trying to do to her before he got sick).

Jason