Bristol 29 mast step rebuild help needed

[ddsailor25]

I need to rebuild the deck step on our B29 this fall. Does anybody know how these deck step mast carry the load down through the boat. It looks like most of the load is picked up my the 4x4 post in the head and into the bulk head. The boat is in the water now and I'm going to try and rig up a compression post to get through the summer. Any sugestions would be greatly appriciated.

Dave

[David]

The mast step itself is composed of a wood beam and a steel plate glassed into the deck (what the aluminum step attaches to). The load that this beam distributes is carried down thru the two vertical uprights of the head doorway, creating an arch. The head entrance is framed in mahogany 4x4 posts that pass thru the sole pan and to a fiberglass stucture on the keel. This is the design of virtually all older Bristols and works very well.

If you are experiencing sag, it is most likely from getting rain water down the inside of the mast over the years and that water eventually seeping past the electical wire plug inside the maststep. I have not heard of many instances with the mast support system failing, but it would be very straight fowrard to repair or replace it. I would consider sistering the uprights, rather than removing them. The most difficult tast (from a cosmetic point of view) would be removing that area of the fiberglass overhead. I have removed the overhead in my boat entirely and I have a few lessons leaarned on my site regarding this step. I have not had an issue with the mastdtep (tg).

Good luck,

David

[ddsailor25]

Dave,

Thanks for the respose. I am going to sister up the supports this weekend with 3x3 mahogany of ether side of the head post. With the head post supporting most of the weight where does the sage come from? Is that post most likely not making good contact or is it the balsa core sagging and being squished? I'll post Monday and let people know how the sistering goes.

Dave

[David]

There isn't any balsa coring betwen the posts (and keep in mid there are two posts that provide support, not just one--both uprights for the door frame are the compression posts) and the horizontal step. What Bristol did was the to lay down the bottom layer of glass over the area where the horizontal step is located, then add the layers of wood and steel that make up the step itself, then add balsa to the rest of the cabin top except that area and the dorade boxes, then add the top layer of glass which covers the step and creates the dorade boxes. The sag if not from the uprights, is from the horizontal step itself--but if that is the case you would see crazing and cracks in the exterior layer of glass covering the step.

How much sag is there and how do you know the mast support system is sagging?

David

[David]

<<What Bristol did was the to lay down the bottom layer of glass over the area where the horizontal step is located, then add the layers of wood and steel that make up the step itself, then add balsa to the rest of the cabin top except that area and the dorade boxes, then add the top layer of glass which covers the step and creates the dorade boxes. The sag if not from the uprights, is from the horizontal step itself>>

Actually the reverse of those steps of course was done, but the point I'm making is there is no balsa core between the compression posts and the maststep.

[ddsailor25]

That would make sense that there isn't any balsa coring under the mast step. What it looks like to me is the forward section of the mast step is compressing. If I look at the contour of the deck you can visually see it compressing. The rigging is slightly tighter then last year, but that is because I had too much forward rack in the mast, so I took the furler apart this last spring and adjusted the turnbuckle out. The previous owner also had a spacer in the aft stay, so I took that out. The mast is center better this year and i wanted to tighten up the back stay more so I don't get as much deflection in my furler. Over the past 4 season of owning the boat i really haven't had any problems with the rigging. I would center the mast and tighten her up. Then go out for a good sail and recheck the mast. After final adjustments she would stay tentioned pretty well. This year I noticed when we tentioned her up that after the week the rigging was looser. Are classic boat not suppose to be rigged tight. For example, when we are over 25 to 30 degrees the lee side stays just start to go slack.
Looking at the mast step there are some stress cracks at the base, but the interior I don't really notice anything. The head door still opens and closes without jamming. Maybe, I'm over looking into things. I do know that i need to rebed the sail hatch because they leak into the head.

Thanks for your resonses and sorry for not answering back sooner.

Dave

[David]

That would make sense that there isn't any balsa coring under the mast step. What it looks like to me is the forward section of the mast step is compressing. If I look at the contour of the deck you can visually see it compressing. The rigging is slightly tighter then last year, but that is because I had too much forward rack in the mast, so I took the furler apart this last spring and adjusted the turnbuckle out. The previous owner also had a spacer in the aft stay, so I took that out. The mast is center better this year and i wanted to tighten up the back stay more so I don't get as much deflection in my furler. Over the past 4 season of owning the boat i really haven't had any problems with the rigging. I would center the mast and tighten her up. Then go out for a good sail and recheck the mast. After final adjustments she would stay tentioned pretty well. This year I noticed when we tentioned her up that after the week the rigging was looser. Are classic boat not suppose to be rigged tight. For example, when we are over 25 to 30 degrees the lee side stays just start to go slack.
Looking at the mast step there are some stress cracks at the base, but the interior I don't really notice anything. The head door still opens and closes without jamming. Maybe, I'm over looking into things. I do know that i need to rebed the sail hatch because they leak into the head.

Thanks for your resonses and sorry for not answering back sooner.

Dave

Dave,

You can tighten the shrouds and stays pretty tight on this boat, I certainly do and I sail mine very hard in lots of wind. The lee shrouds will always go slack when the B29 is hard on the wind. That is no indication of the step sagging. Stress cracks around the mast step can be. I would definitely drill a drain hole in the rear of the mast about a half inch up from the base. I would also pull out the trim screws for the mahogany trim pieces that are next to and adjoining the head doorway. Look for rust on the screws, brown staining, or an indication of wetness.

David

[ddsailor25]

I did pull out those screws and everything looked fine. Maybe I'm just over analizing it. Would you recomend in the fall drilling some test holes in the area of the mast step to see if there is rot in the wood support? We are leaving on a weeks vacation on the boat tomorrow so we'll see how things go. Thanks for all your input. You have put my mind at ease a little.

Dave

[David]

Dave,

Yes, when you get to the point that you want to invest some work on the boat, drill some test holes with a 1/2 bit and see what you get. Assuming everything is ok, just saturate with some unthickened epoxy and then before it kicks completely fill with thickened epoxy to repair the inspection holes.

Good luck,

David

[christopher]

Hi there,

I was reading through this post as I've recently purchased a 1970 Bristol 29. There is a leak in the mast step which drips into the head. I haven't had the boat in the water yet as I just purchased it within the last few weeks. It is on the hard and has the mast up. The previous owner only had the boat a couple of years and never took the mast down. I have to sail about 100 miles home.

From what I've read, water gets into the mast and runs through the holes for the wiring. Is it worth having them unstep the mast before I head for home this spring? If so, what is the best approach to sealing up this leak?

For background, I'm pretty handy, and not afraid of work, but have no experience with boat repair... although I'm expecting to have a whole lot in the coming years :)

Thanks in advance. I'll be up at the boat in two weeks to do what work I can on her and to clean her out. I'm in Wisconsin so the boat will be frozen for the next 4 or 5 months.

[bcooke]

Water can get in by any number of ways. There is no way to tell without more info and pictures.

Did you have the boat surveyed before you bought it? That probably would have highlighted any truly bad problems.

Personally, I think leaving the mast up for long is just a bad idea unless someone goes up to inspect the masthead now and then. Wire rigging doesn't last forever and needs to be replaced before it fails and kills someone.

A couple of years in WI can be pretty tough on a neglected boat.

Feel free to start new threads if you have new topics to discuss. Hijacking old threads just makes the information on the forum muddled and harder to search through. We are all guilty of hijacking though. It's just too easy to click that 'reply' button and throw a new question on the old pile.

[christopher]

Okay --

I'll create a separate thread. I just wanted to get the attention of the other B29 owners and thought this thread was relevant, but it is older.

Wisconsin winters are equally rough on its residents they are on old boats :)

[bcooke]

Note: I am not telling you what to do; just suggesting. I was King of the highjackers back in the day.

New threads are free and 100% on topic :)

[ddsailor25]

If you repost this as a new question you'll get alot more responses back. When you get the boat home I would have the mast unstepped for for the ease of winter storage and then you can seal up the leak. Ours didn't leak on our b29 but there also wasn't any caulking around the areas where the wires went through the deck, so i just put some in. Your repair might just be as simple as that. Taking that mast step off could be a problem if it hasn't been off in 40 years. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. We have done alot of work to our B29 and planning on alot more.

Dave

[Rachel]

Hi Christopher, and welcome to the forum! :)

I'm of the opposite mind, in that I like to keep themes together and so I don't see it as a problem to add on to old threads (the opposite, in fact). But on the other hand, although this thread was about B-29s, and even mast steps, it was more about the structural concerns, and not really about your type of leak, and/or your debate about whether or not to unstep on a new boat. So I can see where a new thread would be better here.

Congrats on your new classic! (And see you in the new thread :)

Rachel

[Tim]

Let's not worry about where the thread starts and not bother suggesting one way or the other.

[christopher]

Okay :)

I'm going to be taking a drive up to the boat the weekend after next to get all the brightwork off of it, get the cushions out, scrub the interior to hopefully make it smell a little nicer come spring, and do some investigating on the leak. It's covered now, so if the leak persists, it's likely that it's coming in through the top of the mast. I'll start a new post with my investigative report and questions after that. I'll probably have the mast taken down each year as I don't like the idea of all the rigging being exposed to the elements for so long, but this year I'm at the mercy of the previous owner's discretion on the matter.

I've been a long time dreamer/poster at Sailfar but this site seems to be more centered on repair and maintenance which is the area I'll be needing the most help in the coming months/years.

[Rachel]

I think that's a great start - there's nothing like emptying everything out of a new-to-you boat, and then cleaning it. You get better air flow, tt feels great to get rid of the stuff and dirt, and then you can really get a good look at things and figure out where you stand. Plus, it's nice to do a bit of bonding with your new boat.

When you get to the photos and projects: Operators are standing by ;^)

Rachel