unseizing a ball valve?

Matt1 · Post by **Matt1** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:48 pm

Does anyone have any advice on how to get a ball valve moving that has frozen up? The valve in question is to the through hull to pump the head out. Oddly enough, the head is brand spanking new, and plumbed up but the valve won't move. Actually, the valve arm looks pretty new too. I've applied penetrating oil to the parts I can see, but I'm assuming that it is the ball itself. Thanks.

LazyGuy · Post by **LazyGuy** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:11 pm

We need a brand name and model for the valve or a picture but both would work best.

deckhand · Post by **deckhand** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:25 pm

agreed, a brand name and image would help a lot, but I do have one question. Did you plumb the head and did you use any kind of sealant? I once made the stupid mistake of keeping a pvc valve open while I was gluing it up. Well, needless to say it stayed open and I had to cut it out. Fun. Also on that same thought, I hope the valve didn't have a polymer-based seal for the ball, penetrating oil might eat it for lunch.

Matt1 · Post by **Matt1** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:31 pm

I am going to the boat this afternoon, so I will see if I can find a brand name on the valve. We bought the boat about a month ago, so I had nothing to do with the plumbing. That said, I don't know what was used. Like I said, the valve looks pretty new, but won't budge. Someone suggested pouring vegetable oil into the head, thinking that would get some lubricant to the actual ball, but that sounds like a very stupid idea. I'll see if I can find a brand.

Post by **Tim** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:55 am

Actually, vegetable or olive oil make good lubricants for most ball valves, but they may not help that much in freeing one that's somehow stuck.

Matt1 · Post by **Matt1** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:32 pm

I could not find a brand name on the valve, and it is not as new as I remembered it. It looks like the previous owner just replaced the arm. It does have a square fitting on the side that I am assuming allows you to lubricate the valve, but I didn't do anything with it, because I didn't know what to use so as not to break down the material as someone said. So would you say that vegetable oil would be advisable in this fitting? Would wd-40 also break it down? I never would have thought of that.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:10 pm

I think there are two commonly available ball valve seacocks: Groco or Apollo. There may be others, but you might want to check them out on the net to see a diagram of what is inside and how it works.

Are you positive it is a ball valve and not a tapered plug valve? I'm guessing your seacock is 1.5" and is a true seacock (i.e. not just a valve screwed on to the through hull).

As has been previously mentioned, on a ball valve, the ball is usually seated in some kind of plastic-- the solvents in WD-40 would probably work to break the plastic down and you may loose any seal between the plastic and the ball. Of course if you can't get it to close, the point is moot.

Have you tried to move the handle a little by gently using a BFH? (I know that sounds contradictory and I'll probably get flamed for suggesting it, but as long as you don't bust the seacock free from the hull or the TH, the worst you could do is bend the handle.... and it sounds like you'll be replacing at next haul-out anyway).

Matt1 · Post by **Matt1** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:19 pm

Thanks for the advice. I really need to get an image up. I have only owned small boats, so at every turn there is something new. I have been trying to just get the boat ready for my dad to use. He lost his 38' Easterly a few years back from a lightning strike that blew out a transducer and sunk the boat. It probably wouldn't hurt to haul out and check everything out. The facilities are there. I was just hoping to dodge that kind of thing for a while so he could get sailing again.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:44 pm

Here's the Groco Seacock & a maintenance sheet:
http://www.groco.net/catsvcman07.htm

Conbraco/Apollo seacocks are very similar.

A tapered plug seacock looks like this:

The tapered plug type is a different animal than than ball valve.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:03 am

If you have a ball valve, you can see that it was assembled. Normally, you never take one apart, simply lubricate. Browse the Groco site cited above. Dissassembly should give you access to the ill-lubricated bit or remove pressure on it.

You really can break ball valves. I towed a friend home after his engine cooling seacock handle broke off in the off position; dead calm.

If you have a classic plug-style seacock, you can readily get the nuts and handle off but getting the plug out requires great finess, force and extreme gentleness, all at once. Pretty easy to mush the threads and make scrap of it. Once apart, clean and lap the plug and taper, clean and lubricate, reassemble, and never let it corrode again.

matt1 · Post by **matt1** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:20 pm

Success! The square nipple that I had described backed out suprisingly easy, and after squirting olive oil in with a baby nose sucker, I put the square plug back and the valve moved 20 minutes later. Now, of course, the problem is finding a holding tank that will fit the boat...

keelbolts · Post by **keelbolts** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:18 pm

I've seen guys clean bronze by letting it sit in a bucket o' vinegar. I wonder if you could pour vinegar into the top of a frozen seacock and let it sit to free it up?

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:36 pm

matt1 wrote:...and after squirting olive oil in with a baby nose sucker...

A...... what?!

There have to be photos.

R.

Post by **dasein668** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:54 pm

Clearly, no kids!

See Babies and Colds These things are more commonly called Bulb Syringes, but I prefer Baby Nose Sucker, myself.

Summersdawn · Post by **Summersdawn** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:04 pm

LOL - I always referred to them as snot suckers!

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:20 pm

And all this time I thought you used them at the other end of the baby! Ah ... those Canadians, eh?

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:57 pm

One just never knows what one is going to learn on this forum.

R.

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:38 pm

I thought those were for very small turkeys!

ya know, for basting?

is any one laughing?

ut ohh, a zen like silence spreads over the forum as only my one hand can clap while I type.

I see my crash site over there, I'll be augering in now.

r

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 pm

Cornish hens.

R.

matt1 · Post by **matt1** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:28 pm

I think that I will patent the device under the name "boat flex" and sell it to West Marine, and wait for the money to pile up. Seriously, the bendable tip was the only thing that made it possible in my situation.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:21 pm

Matt1 wrote:I think that I will patent the device under the name "boat flex" and sell it to West Marine

Just make sure they are white and say "Marine" on them, then you'll be in business :-)