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This is the place to post your ideas, thoughts, questions and comments as relates to general boatbuilding and reconstruction techniques and procedures (i.e. recoring, epoxy, fiberglass, wood, etc.)
Started my spring project list a little early, wanted to open it up and see what I was getting into...
I cut the top layer of glass off with a cordless saw and peeled back the sole...
Going to need warmer waether to thaw out the wet balsa core and get it clean and dry enought to replace, but I have a pretty good idea what I'm up against....Looks like 3/8" balsa core between two 1/8" glass layers...
I have enough 1/2" marine plywood to fill thew area, and was hoping to use that (assuming I can clean and scrape enough depth out....) and then cover with a layer of epoxy and glass cloth...
But now that it's open I'm wondering...??
1. Can I just fill the hollowed out core with layers of glass and epoxy (no wood)...? or
2. If I cut the lip off (that forms the bildge panel opening) could I run some teak/cumaru/holly flooring panels ..."perpendicular" to the keel across the bildge side to side...? or
3. Just rebuild the sole with ply and keep the stock bildge panel covers...?
I would do the core replacement. I believe I read somewhere that the "wood" core actually adds more stiffness than fiberglass and cloth combined. Plywood in my opinion is not the best core but it certainly works. On my boat the orignal core was 1/2 inch plywood cut into 3 inch squares. It worked well except the many holes drilled into the deck to attach teak allowed water to penetrate. Once the water was in it had noway to come out. The result was a mush like what you described. I am not sure if a teak and holley sole would also be stiff enough. It certainly would be more expensive. The last time I bought some it ran $17.50 a board foot. That is my take, please keep us informed and post often. The forum activity is dying down and we need more posts in order to get our daily fix!
For the epoxy required to repair it as built... You'll probably have 3 gallons in to it by the time you are done.
I would:
Cut out the existing hull liner, leaving a fiberglass lip 2-3 inches wide around the sole.
Wedge some Clear #1 salt treated 2x4's under the hull liner at approximately 16 inch centers and bevel the outside edges to the hull, keep them off the bottom of the bilge. (
Get a folding extension rule, or brick layers rule so you can accurately measure the top and bottom length, and extrapolate the bevel of what you can't reach. ) Tab in on both sides, either to the hull or to the liner its self to keep the 2x4's in place... but let the hull bare the weight. Lay strings or straight edges to place the top edge of the 2x4 approximately 3/4 below the lip around the outside edge.
To Retain the existing drop boards you can frame out the opening with 2x4's leaving an edge exposed... Or for more access frame out the opening 3-4 inches back and use a using a 2 inch cleat epoxied to the underside of the plywood.
I would tab the 3/4 plywood down to the lip of fiberglass, and float out the outside edges. with thickened epoxy. Then either paint (tape off the area directly above the bevel of the hull liner, and pick a different color than the factory gel coat rather than try to match) or lay a plywood veneered deck over the 3/4 ply.
To cut out the 3/4 plywood, pop a center line down the center and on 6 inch centers, measure athwartship to each side. Pop a center line on the plywood, and lay out 6 inch centers, to loft the hull. When you do the Teak and Holly Plywood, use a sheet of MDF and cut it down the middle. Scribe both sides to fit the opening, and join it back together with some scabs of 2x4's. Before you take the 2x4's off, lay some on the top and screw them down... Then back out the bottom side. That way you don't end up with a teak and holly piece that fits upside down. (grin)
To glue down the teak and holly plywood Use tropical hardener and cabosil to mix up a large quantity of epoxy... Spread it out evenly, and set the plywood in place. Lay bags of sand or other weights to get it mashed fully down. When that cures roll 3-4 light coats of epoxy over the top before you think about varnishing. I have 4 50 lb bags of lead shot that do wonders... As sand requires 3 or 4 wraps of plastic, and even then you still find a grain here and there.
Not sure if I need to go that far... someone else had mentioned addressing this as a "structural" repair rather than cosmetic, but I'm not so sure these side pieces of sole add all that much to the floor/hull/strength...
There are floor "joists" or bracing every 16" or so under the sole liner and they seem pretty solid from where I poked and prodded so a layer of ply covered with glass should give me adaquate walking strength now I just need to decide if I just glass and paint the sole (using original bildge covers) or add the holly/teak ply layer for "looks"....
Started to scrape out the old and see what kind of room I have to fill...Looks like the 1/2" marine ply I already have will work in this application...
Unless this stuff has swolen that much....looks to be the same thickness as the replacement ply...
Got a chance to do a little more damage in the boat...
Got the sole opened up and the old soft Balsa sub floor out...
Started fitting Marine grade plywood to fill void...
Next step is to coat plywood and epoxy into soleprior to glass work...but for that I'm gonna need some warmer days/nights...my little heater warms up tyhe air enough to work but probably not warm enought to kick the epoxy...That and I want things to dry up a little more before I reseal...
Make sure you coat all surfaces of the new marine ply with epoxy paying close attention to the edges with the exposed open grain before permanently installing the ply..
Had a couple warm days (finally) so I layed up a bit more epoxy on the sole...
I had already coated the bottom of the plywood as well as edges, then a layer in bottom of sole cavity...let that harden up...
Then I mixed a batch and poured it in the cracks and gaps around the plywood to tie everything together...I coated the top of the plywood and layed in a wide layer of 6oz cloth over the existing sole...
Then another narrower layer of cloth and epoxy to build up the thickness of the original sole.
When this hardens up, I'll sand the lumps and bumps out and be ready for the final top coat to smooth it all out into one texture...
Not sure if I want to go to the trouble of making molds and trying to duplicate the old non skid pattern with borders etc...or just dust it with silica sand in the wet top coat and then cover with paint...
The edges (wood to wood and wood to sole) are taped with FG cloth and glassed over..ties everything together
It's gonna depend on how the top coat smooths out (and what tricks I use) but I'm thinking epoxy sand and paint for now...so I can get in the water...
Depending on how it looks and lasts , I'm also looking into the vinyl-like floor coverings that look like wood but cut in with a scissors and glue down
With that shallow bildge and CB pipe stand it tends to be a semi wet floor...
Sanded the sole with 60 grit, took off the lumps and bumps, cut off the loose fibers and generally smoothed things out...
Then a fairing coat of epoxy over all... I added a little white colorant to the epoxy to be able to see the new coat and if the non skid gets scratched it'll still show white undeneath
Went down fairly smooth, will sand one more time and maybe some touch up fairing...ater that tape it off and roll out the KiwiGrip non skid...
Taped off an area for the Non Skid...Enough to cover my recore work and leave a good inch or so of original sole showing...
Kiwi Grip went on easy, and rolled in just enough texture to cover the epoxy work (which was pretty smooth in itself) Looks like I need to do a second coat of deck paint on the remaining sole to brighten things up...
Pulled the tape while the Kiwi Grip was still wet (according to directions) and and caught a good edge...Now my old bilge covers look a little....well...old...so maybe that's where I'll invest in the Teak and Holly plywood for replacements...
A little over the "Lowbuck $100 threshold" but not by much....and I have a solid sole that looks as good as original...
Very nice job. As far as the teak and holly ply goes, you might try checking with a couple of boatyards in your area to see if they have any cut-offs left from a larger job. I got some cut-offs for rather short money a coupe of years ago from one of the local boatyards.
Work keeps me busy till after Memorial Day...then I can start taking weekends off...So hopefully splash first of June...
I have most all my spring list done, just need to clean out the inside and reload my gear, wash and wax the outside and check the trailer over for the ride...
Buddy came over and painted my trailer for me...minimal prep (but that's OK) we had to mix 3 different colors together to have enough product (but that's OK) Looks better than the rusty mobile home frame it started as...and that's OK...I can't see the trailer when I'm out on the lake anyway...
Wow, you are making great progress. The trailer looks very nice. I bet you are getting anxious to get her back in the water. Best of luck and smooth sailing.
NICE, I just noticed you're in WI, just coming into the sailing season , good for you, I'm curious, are you launching and retrieving off the trailer? If so it may be helpful if you fabbbed up a keel guide to help center the keel when floating on the trailer cuz the water may be a little cold when it goes back on the trailer and this way you avoid taking a dunk to see if it's lining up. Basically just a V shape lined with carpet or some soft material over a 2X4 to help center the keel when the boat floats up to the trailer.
Yes, I "dry slip" out of Washburn Harbor on the edge of the Apostle Islands Lake Superior...
They have a decent sloped ramp and I can dunk er in the water by myself in less than 20 minutes...Same with pulling out, I have rear "guide posts" that line up the back and a flag up front by the winch for three point alignment...
I'm usually loaded and out before the stinkpot drivers finish yelling at their wife on how to back up a trailer...
Is that a PY23 or PY26? It looks familiar. I have a 1978 PY23 that's undergoing restoration. The centerboard pennant standpipe and the keelbolt arrangement are similar. Nice job, and very solid looking, by the way. I am thinking of using some removable material for the cabin sole cover. Teak and holly would be nice but they're very proud of the plywood and I want to be able to lift it up to keep an eye on the keel bolts. Does anyone know of a flexible wood grain product that comes in sheet material? If I recall correctly, there is a flexible faux teak decking material that comes in sheets.
