For all those with rigid dinghies as tenders....
What's the fore-and-aft location of the middle seat and its oarlocks?
Of course, I lust after a Nutshell for a tender, but this spring I had neither the money for plans & good materials nor the time to invest in a lapstrake hull. Instead I got some free plans off the Duckworks site for an 8' taped-ply pram that'll serve for the first year or two. Of course I've gotten what I've paid for, as the plans are really just hull panel offsets that don't show these locations.
Do you know of any rules of thumb for the locations of these elements with respect to rowability and overall "balance"? Or is legroom really the driver here?
Dinghy seat and oarlock locations
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Tim
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My dinghy is an 8' Fatty Knees. It doesn't have a center thwart, per se; rather, it has a sort of saddle on the centerline.
But anyway, the after edge of this saddle is almost exactly 4' forward from the transom--or directly in the center of the boat. The rowlocks are a few inches aft of that, perhaps 44-45" from the transom. If the saddle were a traditional thwart, I don't see any reason why the location would be any different. The boat is generally well balanced with one person in the main rowing position, though perhaps the weight could be a bit further aft; the stern tends to ride a bit higher.
I would guess that in general, the main rowing position in most dinghies would end up about in the center of the boat, which also tends to be the beamiest portion in dinghies. And the rowlocks should be just a few inches aft of the aft end of the seat.
Fatty Knees
Tim
But anyway, the after edge of this saddle is almost exactly 4' forward from the transom--or directly in the center of the boat. The rowlocks are a few inches aft of that, perhaps 44-45" from the transom. If the saddle were a traditional thwart, I don't see any reason why the location would be any different. The boat is generally well balanced with one person in the main rowing position, though perhaps the weight could be a bit further aft; the stern tends to ride a bit higher.
I would guess that in general, the main rowing position in most dinghies would end up about in the center of the boat, which also tends to be the beamiest portion in dinghies. And the rowlocks should be just a few inches aft of the aft end of the seat.
Fatty Knees
Tim
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dasein668
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Mike,
Do you have a link to the plans you used? I went to duckworks, but it was a bit tough to find the free plans... read: I couldn't!
How did you find the construction process?
I, too, lust after the nutshell. They are nice little boats. I probably won't be able to have one though, as they tend to be a bit tippy, and with a wife, dog, and (soon) kid, I'll want something with a bit more initial stability!
Do you have a link to the plans you used? I went to duckworks, but it was a bit tough to find the free plans... read: I couldn't!
How did you find the construction process?
I, too, lust after the nutshell. They are nice little boats. I probably won't be able to have one though, as they tend to be a bit tippy, and with a wife, dog, and (soon) kid, I'll want something with a bit more initial stability!
Nathan
dasein668.com
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Figment
- Damned Because It's All Connected
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Tim, Thanks for the info. I actually was able to contact the designer about this issue, and it turns out that NOBODY can say where to locate these things, as to his knowlege I'm the first to build the design. I need to float-test it this weekend to determine the best position. Actually, I'm looking forward to this, as it means I can have the boat "custom trimmed" to our typical load of two adults, a dog, and a cooler.
Nathan,
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/design ... nghbat.htm
Though I have to say that I really only went this way because it was free. If I were to seriously build a pram of this type (floating box), I'd do Bolger's "Rubens Nymph" or Michalak's "Vole" or "Tween". Sailing performance was not a consideration in my selection. Selection criteria were 1) cheap. 2) rowable. 3) cheap. 4) carry the above listed load 5) cheap.
If it's free, it's for me!
Truly I'm rather ashamed of how cheap I've been on this thing. Luan plywood as hull material, with all trim and bits ripped from 2x lumber. I even carved my own oars from 2x6's. Shameful. No boat should suffer the indignity of such shoddy material.
Construction process couldn't be simpler. No frames or moulds to set up. Cut the panels to shape, tack and tape together, and PRESTO! instant boat! Because I had a LOT of 4oz cloth leftover from the canoe I built last year, I sheathed the hull in this, but I'm told that this would've been unnecessary if I'd used real plywood.
Nathan,
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/design ... nghbat.htm
Though I have to say that I really only went this way because it was free. If I were to seriously build a pram of this type (floating box), I'd do Bolger's "Rubens Nymph" or Michalak's "Vole" or "Tween". Sailing performance was not a consideration in my selection. Selection criteria were 1) cheap. 2) rowable. 3) cheap. 4) carry the above listed load 5) cheap.
If it's free, it's for me!
Truly I'm rather ashamed of how cheap I've been on this thing. Luan plywood as hull material, with all trim and bits ripped from 2x lumber. I even carved my own oars from 2x6's. Shameful. No boat should suffer the indignity of such shoddy material.
Construction process couldn't be simpler. No frames or moulds to set up. Cut the panels to shape, tack and tape together, and PRESTO! instant boat! Because I had a LOT of 4oz cloth leftover from the canoe I built last year, I sheathed the hull in this, but I'm told that this would've been unnecessary if I'd used real plywood.
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Figment
- Damned Because It's All Connected
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D5!!!! Thank you!!! I was trying to remember the name of that one, but I just couldn't recall it!
Yes, I actually liked that one better than all mentioned above. They seem to have really worked all the kinks out of the plans (it's really just a refined version of one of their older designs), and as much as any of these clunkbox designs can be said to have "nice lines", the D5 has nice lines. She certainly looks to be a better sailor than the others.
Though somewhat untraditional, the seating arrangement of the Fatty Knees (center ridge, rather than a thwart) is actually REALLY good. It keeps inexperienced guests to the center of the boat and really allows a lot more flexibility in how cargo can be loaded. What I'm getting at is that if I were to build the D5, I'd use this layout, and I'd laminate some overcurved outwales and inwales to torture the hull sides to the proper curve.
Yes, I actually liked that one better than all mentioned above. They seem to have really worked all the kinks out of the plans (it's really just a refined version of one of their older designs), and as much as any of these clunkbox designs can be said to have "nice lines", the D5 has nice lines. She certainly looks to be a better sailor than the others.
Though somewhat untraditional, the seating arrangement of the Fatty Knees (center ridge, rather than a thwart) is actually REALLY good. It keeps inexperienced guests to the center of the boat and really allows a lot more flexibility in how cargo can be loaded. What I'm getting at is that if I were to build the D5, I'd use this layout, and I'd laminate some overcurved outwales and inwales to torture the hull sides to the proper curve.
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Tim
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Mike,
The rubrail is Dacron, and looks identical to the traditional canvas rubrails from days of yore. Since it's synthetic, it doesn't rot, and is easy to clean. The Dacron is bonded to an inner core of sponge-rubber. It is excellent--soft, but firm enough to not lose its resiliance; synthetic, so it doesn't rot or hold dirt; nonmarking, so you don't mar your or others' topsides.
It came with the boat as standard equipment, but I see that Hamilton Marine sells a similar or identical product.
Rubrail at Hamilton Marine
T'aint cheap. But it's good.
Regarding your comment on the saddle-seating arrangement in the FK: it rocks. It's a unique idea, but one that really works. It makes moving around the dink easier, it offers more room for storage, and, if you (the rower) need to move from the center to the forward rowing position, it's a simple matter of sliding towards the bow--no need to stand up, tiptoe to the bow thwart, and settle again. I would highly recommend the layout. It's very functional. Note also that the saddle contains the daggerboard trunk for the sailing rig.
The Fatty Knees is full of good ideas that work--I love the boat. But that's probably best left for another thread.
Tim
The rubrail is Dacron, and looks identical to the traditional canvas rubrails from days of yore. Since it's synthetic, it doesn't rot, and is easy to clean. The Dacron is bonded to an inner core of sponge-rubber. It is excellent--soft, but firm enough to not lose its resiliance; synthetic, so it doesn't rot or hold dirt; nonmarking, so you don't mar your or others' topsides.
It came with the boat as standard equipment, but I see that Hamilton Marine sells a similar or identical product.
Rubrail at Hamilton Marine
T'aint cheap. But it's good.
Regarding your comment on the saddle-seating arrangement in the FK: it rocks. It's a unique idea, but one that really works. It makes moving around the dink easier, it offers more room for storage, and, if you (the rower) need to move from the center to the forward rowing position, it's a simple matter of sliding towards the bow--no need to stand up, tiptoe to the bow thwart, and settle again. I would highly recommend the layout. It's very functional. Note also that the saddle contains the daggerboard trunk for the sailing rig.
The Fatty Knees is full of good ideas that work--I love the boat. But that's probably best left for another thread.
Tim
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Figment
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"T'aint cheap" is right!
since that would more than double the current material cost of the boat, I think I'll continue down my current El-Cheapo path.... I'm thinking foam waterpipe insulation at $0.35/foot and some craft-store (I'll let the wife handle that estrogenic paradise) canvas fabric.
Good link, though. I'll save it for the Nutshell!
since that would more than double the current material cost of the boat, I think I'll continue down my current El-Cheapo path.... I'm thinking foam waterpipe insulation at $0.35/foot and some craft-store (I'll let the wife handle that estrogenic paradise) canvas fabric.
Good link, though. I'll save it for the Nutshell!
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dasein668
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Nothing wrong with cheap! Looks basically solid. I'll be interested to hear a performance report when you get her in the water.
I'm trying to convince my wife to let me build something... we'll see how much success I have!
I'm trying to convince my wife to let me build something... we'll see how much success I have!
Nathan
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Tim
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Mike,
Might you consider posting some photos of your finished creation here? Having seen the plans and heard the description, now we need to see the result.
You gotta love a dinghy built out of nothing. If I was keeping a dink at the public landing to get to my boat, I'd build something basic for that use that I didn't have to worry about.
Look forward to seeing it.
Tim
Might you consider posting some photos of your finished creation here? Having seen the plans and heard the description, now we need to see the result.
You gotta love a dinghy built out of nothing. If I was keeping a dink at the public landing to get to my boat, I'd build something basic for that use that I didn't have to worry about.
Look forward to seeing it.
Tim
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Figment
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Another dinghy design I should've mentioned above was the nesting pram by Dave Gerr. I first learned of this design in his book The Nature of Boats.
http://www.downeaster.net/nestor_dinghy.htm
Though a bit more time consuming to build (basically you build two smaller boats) I think it should be no more complex than any other taped-ply design. In addition to the plans, Dave sells the hardware pieces that really make the whole nesting thing work conveniently.
Maybe it's the more elegant proportions afforded by the additional length, or maybe it's just the cool gadgety nature of the thing, but I really dig this design.
The reason (other than cost) that I didn't build this design was that I still really don't KNOW how I'm going to use whatever tender we have.
Do I really NEED the additional capacity and stability of the 11' length?
Will I ever actually de-nest it and take it on deck instead of towing it?
If so, are those smaller sections really small enough to make it easy to stow on the foredeck of a Triton?
Will I kick myself for building something that's so NOT sail-oriented?
All these questions and more must be answered by this current dink before I invest real money and time in the final solution.
http://www.downeaster.net/nestor_dinghy.htm
Though a bit more time consuming to build (basically you build two smaller boats) I think it should be no more complex than any other taped-ply design. In addition to the plans, Dave sells the hardware pieces that really make the whole nesting thing work conveniently.
Maybe it's the more elegant proportions afforded by the additional length, or maybe it's just the cool gadgety nature of the thing, but I really dig this design.
The reason (other than cost) that I didn't build this design was that I still really don't KNOW how I'm going to use whatever tender we have.
Do I really NEED the additional capacity and stability of the 11' length?
Will I ever actually de-nest it and take it on deck instead of towing it?
If so, are those smaller sections really small enough to make it easy to stow on the foredeck of a Triton?
Will I kick myself for building something that's so NOT sail-oriented?
All these questions and more must be answered by this current dink before I invest real money and time in the final solution.
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David
Relatively cheap rubrail
For one dingy I built I bought a length of 1-1/2 inch three-strand nylon rope and laced it to the rubrail. A cheap yachty looking solution.