I'm just about to pull a 24' gladiator and bottom paint. The boat lives in los angeles, and like most, will sit on moorings a lot. There is a bewildering array of bottom paint out there. Any recommendations re price/performance or types? Also, Since I don't know what was on it last, what precautions, tests and prep are neccessary?
thanks!
bottom paint
-
Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
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Most bottom paints are compatible with most others. The exception is hard vinyl paints, which usually are incompatible with other coatings either above or below. It's probably unlikely that your boat has vinyl bottom paint, as they are not widely used. A good place to find compatibility results is in the West Marine catalog (I think). Usually these big catalogs list all the paints and what sorts of other paints they are compatible with--or incompatible with.
Otherwise, you should be compatible with just about anything. The condition of the bottom when you haul out will dictate how much prep is required. If the existing paint is super thick and/or chipping and flaking badly, I strongly suggest you strip it all off and start fresh. New paint just doesn't stick well to heavy, chipping layers of old paint. It's a miserable, nasty job, but you probably only have to do it once. (Until you buy another old boat, at least!) I'm going to guess that your boat's bottom is probably in poor condition.
I like ablative paints because they don't build up over time the way traditional paints do. For boats that live in the water year-round, you need a minimum of three coats of ablative, since it works by wearing away to expose new product and antifoulant. The effectiveness and lasting ability of the paint is directly proportional to how many coats you apply. It's a good idea to apply a first coat of one color, then two or more coats of your final color. Then, when that first "signal" color shows through, you know it's time to haul and repaint. This paint scrubs easily, so if you have sufficient thickness of coating, an occasional brushing or professional cleaning will work wonders. It all depends on how long your boat will be in the water between haulouts.
I've used the house brand (i.e. West Marine) and the name brand (Interlux). Both work about the same as far as antifouling capability, but I like applying the more expensive Interlux better--it definitely is a finer and smoother paint during the application. Because I also prefer the Interlux green to the West green, I continue to use Micron CSC on my boat, but it does not work any better during the season than its West Marine counterpart, which is quite a bit less expensive.
Fouling is very localized, so it might help to find out what others are using in your area. We don't get bad fouling here in Maine because the water is cold and the season short--basically a layer of slime by season's end.
Petit Trinidad has the highest copper loading of any bottom paint, and is popular as a result. If you need heavy protection, this might be the way to go.
Probably the cheap West Marine version of either ablative or traditional bottom paint will do just fine for you. No paint works perfectly, and which one works best in your area might not be the same elsewhere. That's why I ignore the product testing results from Practical Sailor and the ilk...too subjective, too localized, and basically worthless.
Otherwise, you should be compatible with just about anything. The condition of the bottom when you haul out will dictate how much prep is required. If the existing paint is super thick and/or chipping and flaking badly, I strongly suggest you strip it all off and start fresh. New paint just doesn't stick well to heavy, chipping layers of old paint. It's a miserable, nasty job, but you probably only have to do it once. (Until you buy another old boat, at least!) I'm going to guess that your boat's bottom is probably in poor condition.
I like ablative paints because they don't build up over time the way traditional paints do. For boats that live in the water year-round, you need a minimum of three coats of ablative, since it works by wearing away to expose new product and antifoulant. The effectiveness and lasting ability of the paint is directly proportional to how many coats you apply. It's a good idea to apply a first coat of one color, then two or more coats of your final color. Then, when that first "signal" color shows through, you know it's time to haul and repaint. This paint scrubs easily, so if you have sufficient thickness of coating, an occasional brushing or professional cleaning will work wonders. It all depends on how long your boat will be in the water between haulouts.
I've used the house brand (i.e. West Marine) and the name brand (Interlux). Both work about the same as far as antifouling capability, but I like applying the more expensive Interlux better--it definitely is a finer and smoother paint during the application. Because I also prefer the Interlux green to the West green, I continue to use Micron CSC on my boat, but it does not work any better during the season than its West Marine counterpart, which is quite a bit less expensive.
Fouling is very localized, so it might help to find out what others are using in your area. We don't get bad fouling here in Maine because the water is cold and the season short--basically a layer of slime by season's end.
Petit Trinidad has the highest copper loading of any bottom paint, and is popular as a result. If you need heavy protection, this might be the way to go.
Probably the cheap West Marine version of either ablative or traditional bottom paint will do just fine for you. No paint works perfectly, and which one works best in your area might not be the same elsewhere. That's why I ignore the product testing results from Practical Sailor and the ilk...too subjective, too localized, and basically worthless.
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Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
I'll put forth a different point of view
Hi Simon, (and Hi to Tim too)
I think I admired that boat on e-Bay (but couldn't get there to look at it, and there was not much information on the auction page). Congrats :-)
Like Tim, I also like ablative bottom paint (having sanded off an old vinyl layer on an earlier boat - ugh). It seems to work well, and when it's gone ... it's gone! Just add more :-)
I have had amazing success with Pettit's top-of-the-line "Ultima SR" in your area. We put it on the boat (Westsail 32) before we went cruising - that was in Alameda/San Francisco Bay - in March of 2003. We prepped as advised on the can and put on three coats, plus a fourth coat around the waterline (to use up a gallon). We used blue for the first coat and then red for subsequent coats, so that we'd have a warning when we were getting down to the end.
One thing that the paint folks (can't remember who) said was that for boats just sitting in a slip, the ablative might not be the best choice because it works best when the boat is moving. We *thought* we weren't worried about that; we were going cruising!
Well, we did depart SF the next month, but then ended up spending 8 months (yes, EIGHT MONTHS) in San Diego because we couldn't quite get going before hurricane season set in. We never went sailing at all but just sat on our anchor (except for the infernal moving around to stay ahead of the vicious San Diego anchoring police). Most boats there had a *thick* growth of weed on them, but ours stayed clean as a whistle with no work on our part.
It also worked well when we were cruising - most of the time in the tropics where there was a lot of growth potential.
In July of 2004 we hauled the boat out for the first time in the Chesapeake and it was so clean that just the pressure washing took care of the light, very thin mossy covering we had (although we had scrubbed the waterline a couple of times in the tropics). We were very pleased! Friends who'd sailed our exact same route (but painted their bottom 8 months later) had used something else (not sure what, sorry) and had lots of growth and barnacles.
One thing to check for if you do buy this: When we first looked for it, we didn't see it on the shelves in California, so we picked up a couple of gallons on our way through Oregon on a road trip. By the time we needed a bit more at the boatyard (KKMI) in San Francisco Bay, they said "You're in luck, it was just approved for sale in Northern California a couple of days ago!" So not sure about SoCal, although maybe by now?
One note about how I decided this was the paint I wanted. A couple of years previously, I had crewed on a different boat that had done the same route (essentially) but had used was was at that time the top-of-the-line Pettit (dang, can't remember the name and don't have a catalog here; not Trinidad though). When it was hauled in the Chesapeake it was covered in barnacles. The boat's owner called the Pettit technical department to talk to them about it, and they immediately offered to send him two gallons of their "new" top-of-the-line paint: Pettit Ultima SR.
Because of that customer service, I wanted to try that paint - and I wasn't dissapointed. It does cost a scary amount, but we figured "How often do we want to haul and paint?"
Hope this helps, and I, for one, would love to hear more about that Gladiator. I liked that flip-up-open hatch, and wonder how it works in real life.
--- Rachel
PS I hope this doesn't seem like a challenge to Tim's advice because that's not how I mean it at all. But sometimes things don't sound the way you mean them in cyberspace....
I think I admired that boat on e-Bay (but couldn't get there to look at it, and there was not much information on the auction page). Congrats :-)
Like Tim, I also like ablative bottom paint (having sanded off an old vinyl layer on an earlier boat - ugh). It seems to work well, and when it's gone ... it's gone! Just add more :-)
I have had amazing success with Pettit's top-of-the-line "Ultima SR" in your area. We put it on the boat (Westsail 32) before we went cruising - that was in Alameda/San Francisco Bay - in March of 2003. We prepped as advised on the can and put on three coats, plus a fourth coat around the waterline (to use up a gallon). We used blue for the first coat and then red for subsequent coats, so that we'd have a warning when we were getting down to the end.
One thing that the paint folks (can't remember who) said was that for boats just sitting in a slip, the ablative might not be the best choice because it works best when the boat is moving. We *thought* we weren't worried about that; we were going cruising!
Well, we did depart SF the next month, but then ended up spending 8 months (yes, EIGHT MONTHS) in San Diego because we couldn't quite get going before hurricane season set in. We never went sailing at all but just sat on our anchor (except for the infernal moving around to stay ahead of the vicious San Diego anchoring police). Most boats there had a *thick* growth of weed on them, but ours stayed clean as a whistle with no work on our part.
It also worked well when we were cruising - most of the time in the tropics where there was a lot of growth potential.
In July of 2004 we hauled the boat out for the first time in the Chesapeake and it was so clean that just the pressure washing took care of the light, very thin mossy covering we had (although we had scrubbed the waterline a couple of times in the tropics). We were very pleased! Friends who'd sailed our exact same route (but painted their bottom 8 months later) had used something else (not sure what, sorry) and had lots of growth and barnacles.
One thing to check for if you do buy this: When we first looked for it, we didn't see it on the shelves in California, so we picked up a couple of gallons on our way through Oregon on a road trip. By the time we needed a bit more at the boatyard (KKMI) in San Francisco Bay, they said "You're in luck, it was just approved for sale in Northern California a couple of days ago!" So not sure about SoCal, although maybe by now?
One note about how I decided this was the paint I wanted. A couple of years previously, I had crewed on a different boat that had done the same route (essentially) but had used was was at that time the top-of-the-line Pettit (dang, can't remember the name and don't have a catalog here; not Trinidad though). When it was hauled in the Chesapeake it was covered in barnacles. The boat's owner called the Pettit technical department to talk to them about it, and they immediately offered to send him two gallons of their "new" top-of-the-line paint: Pettit Ultima SR.
Because of that customer service, I wanted to try that paint - and I wasn't dissapointed. It does cost a scary amount, but we figured "How often do we want to haul and paint?"
Hope this helps, and I, for one, would love to hear more about that Gladiator. I liked that flip-up-open hatch, and wonder how it works in real life.
--- Rachel
PS I hope this doesn't seem like a challenge to Tim's advice because that's not how I mean it at all. But sometimes things don't sound the way you mean them in cyberspace....
Ooops! NOT a contrary opinion...
Tim, I just re-read your post and realized that you recommended both the cheaper and more-expensive ablative points. So I guess I was echoing your sentiment, more-or-less.
I must save my "another opinion" posts for when it really *is* another opinion.
At least I threw in a little Southern California experience to make up for my lack of attention to detail when reading your response.
Kind of embarrasing,
--- Rachel
I must save my "another opinion" posts for when it really *is* another opinion.
At least I threw in a little Southern California experience to make up for my lack of attention to detail when reading your response.
Kind of embarrasing,
--- Rachel