Shore power.

[Skipper599]

I'm in need of a "selector switch" for my AC supply but don't know what it is called, thus preventing me from searching for one on the internet.
The reason I need such a switch is because, I have two Marinco power inlet receptacles located one each on port and starboard coamings.
Can somebody please enlighten me on this subject or item??? . . . Thanks, Bob T.

[Quetzalsailor]

Can anyone think why he should not simply wire the two incoming connections together, tag 'em both to the incoming side of his AC breaker? I can't think why that would be bad. The only downside would be the guy who puts two shore power cords into plugs that are not on the same phase. You'd get 220v at the boat or, hopefully, pop the marina's breaker.

I don't think it's nearly as bad as the guy who left the gas deck fill with no hose connection when he added a diesel fill on the other side of our boat. I mean... why would anybody do that? I foamed the gas fill full so there can be no error.

[Skipper599]

Hi there QS, thanks for reading - I think the reason one shud NOT connect both together as suggested is because you would then have a "live" receptacle on the opposite side to your shore-cable in use.

Probably ok as long as nobody opens the vacant side. There may be other reasons not to do so but I'm no electrician. As well, it may not meet the marine standards code.

I have seen a selector switch on the internet previously, but foolishly forgot to list it as a "favourite" so I might find it again and so far, I've been unsuccessful in tracking it down.

[earlylight]

Skipper 599,

Is this what you are looking for?
http://bluesea.com/category/106/107/pro ... erview/173

[Skipper599]

Hello Dick, that certainly is the type of switch I'm looking for but it's a tad on the large size. The one I saw -only a couple months ago- was more compact, requiring less space on the electrical panel. However, at least I can google the descriptive name here and see what comes up. Thanks for your input. - - - Bob T.

[earlylight]

Skipper 599,

Take a look at these selector switches, they are the smallest I know of. Hope this is of some help.
http://www.paneltronics.com/PartsCompon ... tandard+AC

[Maine Sail]

Guys,

Sterling Power has these switches for under $30.00 !!!!

http://sterling-power-usa.com/manualcro ... power.aspx

[Skipper599]

Hello again Dick,
Thanks for the link, these are looking closer to what I previously saw "somewhere" and I might pursue these if something else doesn't show up.

Maine Sail, thanks also for your link. I like the prices but I always get worried about quality when something appears so much cheaper - in comparison. . . . Not being an electrician, I would be a little hesitant to determine their suitability myself. Perhaps someone with knowledge on this subject might wish to comment???

What seems to be lacking with BOTH of these products is DETAILED information. This bothers me because I need all the help I can get in making a determination.

The switch I saw previously was shown along with detailed instructions on the installion of AC power. It explained (that) when a second shorepower receptacle was used, one would then require a selector switch. The one they showed was a very compact 3-position switch with a face plate labelled: - Port/Off/Stbd. - This is how I first discovered I needed such a switch adn what it would look like.

I may have to settle for one of those expensive ones Dick, but maybe someone else knows what I'm looking for???

Of course, it would help my search were I a little more computer savvy. . . . . . . . . . . LOL

[Maine Sail]

Hello again Dick,
Thanks for the link, these are looking closer to what I previously saw "somewhere" and I might pursue these if something else doesn't show up.

Maine Sail, thanks also for your link. I like the prices but I always get worried about quality when something appears so much cheaper - in comparison. . . . Not being an electrician, I would be a little hesitant to determine their suitability myself. Perhaps someone with knowledge on this subject might wish to comment???

What seems to be lacking with BOTH of these products is DETAILED information. This bothers me because I need all the help I can get in making a determination.

The switch I saw previously was shown along with detailed instructions on the installion of AC power. It explained (that) when a second shorepower receptacle was used, one would then require a selector switch. The one they showed was a very compact 3-position switch with a face plate labelled: - Port/Off/Stbd. - This is how I first discovered I needed such a switch adn what it would look like.

I may have to settle for one of those expensive ones Dick, but maybe someone else knows what I'm looking for???

Of course, it would help my search were I a little more computer savvy. . . . . . . . . . . LOL

Feel free to pay more if you want but the Sterling products are very good quality. In terms of battery chargers they are all I install these days. Sterling is big in Europe but relatively new to the US.

Feel free to call Mark G. at Sterling USA, their US distribution is in So. Maine. He will send you whatever documentation you want. BTW the switches sold by Paneltrinics & Blue Sea are made by Kraus & Naimer and can be had for about the same price as the Sterling switches IF you know what you are looking for and know how to source them. I used to pay about $30.00 for them before Sterling brought their version to the US..

The installation of dual 30A inputs is not as straight forward as one might assume, if you want it done to meet current safety standards, so you may want to consult a local marine electrical specialist..

[Skipper599]

Thanks Maine Sail, I appreciate your input. - As for the installation, I have already contacted a marine electrician who has quote me to install a panel and switches to "Plug and Play" status - meaning, I should be able to connect any light or electrical gadget and it will function. The downside for me was, the estimate - $4500 - I shud mention I have previously had a marine electrician install wiring throughout the boat and I just don't think I can afford $4500 to install a panel with switches.

On the subject of the dual ac receptacles: As I see it, a power supply cable is attached to each and then brought to the selector switch - Port/Off/Stbd. - it then goes to a GFCI breaker and then on to the two outlets located in the galley area. Am I missing something here?

It would be nice if one could "see" the products one wishes to acquire before they are purchased . . . So far, all I hear is, "we can order them in special for you, but you'll have to pay up front" . . .

[Tallystick]

You should be able to make a simple circuit with a relay or power transistor that opens the circuit to the power receptacle not in use. Also, I don't think it would be an issue having two power cords attached to the boat if the inputs are connected in parallel. You would only get 240V if they are connected in series.

[Skipper599]

Hello Tallystick, maybe I'm muddying the waters a little with my poor explanation - perhaps i should have stated up front there will only ever be ONE shore cable plugged in at any time therefore, it can only provide 125v.

The reason for dual inlets is because a fellow I paid to install my fuel tanks mis-measured when installing the fillers and ended up with an additional hole on each side. Not wishing to patch fibreglass and gelcoat, what better way to cover this monumental screw-up than install AC receptacles? I had already decided to have AC power on board, so I simply installed a second receptacle giving me one on each side.

The benefit of having two prevents the need to drape the power cord across the boat when tying up to any dock on the "wrong" side . . . something like pulling onto the gas-pump with your filler-cap on the opposite side?

So yes, it will only ever have 125v . . . sorry for any confusion.

[mitiempo]

Bob

I would keep it simple - forget the relays and install a simple switch like the ones Maine linked to. They aren't really different from the switches that Blue Seas (Kraus & Naimer) uses behind their larger panel. Sterling makes good products and will answer any questions you have as well.

[Skipper599]

Hello Mitiempo, I shall take your advice. Currently, I have an email inquiry sent off to both NewMar and Sterling - Blue seas is much too expensive for my requirements.

The NewMar SS-3.0 is a good switch but still fairly high priced at $178 at my local dealer. I'm thinking Sterling will be fine as long as it is compact and will fit my electrical panel ... that I have yet to design. Thanks again for your advice.

[mitiempo]

Bob

I thought the Blue Seas switch (Blue Seas 1481) was too large - it is sold for a lower price than the Newmar.

[Skipper599]

Bob

I thought the Blue Seas switch (Blue Seas 1481) was too large - it is sold for a lower price than the Newmar.

That's interesting, - I never did see the 1481 because even though I typed the p/n in the search box, it replied that "nothing met the criteria" or words to that effect. As I often say, I am not so smart with technology myself.
However, methinks the NewMar will fill the bill.

I'll take this opportunity Mitiempo to wish yourself, and all members of the Plastic Classic Forum, a very Happy New Year, drive safe and have fun whatever way you choose to celebrate. . . . Bob T.

[Maine Sail]

On the subject of the dual ac receptacles: As I see it, a power supply cable is attached to each and then brought to the selector switch - Port/Off/Stbd.

Yes.. UNLESS the wire length from the inlet to your main breaker is longer than 10 WIRE feet. If longer than 10 feet you need an additional main breaker at or very close to the service entrance.

- it then goes to a GFCI breaker and then on to the two outlets located in the galley area. Am I missing something here?

NO! It needs to go to a 30A or 50A, what ever your service is, main breaker first. If either run from the service inlet to the main breaker is longer than 10 wire feet, then you'll need a second "main" breaker at the service entrance for power feed. "Main" breakers will break BOTH the white/neutral and hot/black wires if a fault is detected. It is also required that a reverse polarity circuit is installed. From the main breaker w/reverse polarity indicator you then go to "branch" breakers, that only break the hot wire, for your outlets with a GFCI being the first outlet in the string.

You are best to buy a pre-made panel from a company like Blue Sea that incorporates a main breaker, reverse polarity circuit and a few branch breakers.. Much, ,much easier....

Alternatively you can use an ELCI or RCD main breaker (residual current detection breakers). These are now the ABYC standard but are more expensive, and SAFER.... Blue Sea also sells small AC panels with ELCI's pre installed.

[Skipper599]

Thanks again Maine Sail for your input. I accept your advice as well.

Luckily, the cable run from each inlet receptacle to the panel is much less than 10 feet - ei: Stbd. = 7ft. while Port = 5ft. - - - Does this mean I'm safe with a single main breaker - or, is the second one mandatory?

So if I'm following your advice correctly Maine Sail, the line of progression should read as follows ???: -
1. Marinco receptacle(s) -
2. Source selector Switch -
3. 30amp Main breaker w/reverse polarity indicator -
4. Branch breakers -
5. GFCI outlet -
6. plus other standard outlets.

[mitiempo]

Bob

At those wire lengths you are fine without the additional breaker.

While I posted the Blue Seas is less than the Newmar I would go for the Sterling. In the UK they are thought of like Blue Seas is over here - widely respected.

[mitiempo]

Almost forget - Happy New Year everybody.

[Maine Sail]

Thanks again Maine Sail for your input. I accept your advice as well.

Luckily, the cable run from each inlet receptacle to the panel is much less than 10 feet - ei: Stbd. = 7ft. while Port = 5ft. - - - Does this mean I'm safe with a single main breaker - or, is the second one mandatory?

So if I'm following your advice correctly Maine Sail, the line of progression should read as follows ???: -
1. Marinco receptacle(s) -
2. Source selector Switch -
3. 30amp Main breaker w/reverse polarity indicator -
4. Branch breakers -
5. GFCI outlet -
6. plus other standard outlets.

You're safe with just the main breaker and yes that's the progression..


Be careful with your green AC grounding wire and white AC neutral. Do some reading on why the white and green are not to be tied together on-board, unless at a new "source of power" like an inverter, generator or isolation transformer. Also read up on why the green AC grounding wire is connected to the ships DC ground.
This is pretty important safety stuff..

[radicalcy]

Maybe this will be of interest? I can put you in touch if you're interested.

From The Yahoo Columbia list:

I got a 120VAC selctor unit. 30 AMP

3 selections plus off.
i.e.:
Inverter
Generator
Shore
Off

I bought it and used it for a bout a year.
New system doesn't allow it to be used.

So....
ANy offers over $75?
It's
Blue Seas Prt# 8366
WM Part# 5426184 $154.99
Let me know in the next week

[Skipper599]

Hello Larry, thanks for your offer of help. Unfortunately, I'm of the opinion the BlueSeas product is physically too large for my requirement - I shall likely be using a NewMar product . . . thanks anyway, much appreciated.

[Maine Sail]

Hello Larry, thanks for your offer of help. Unfortunately, I'm of the opinion the BlueSeas product is physically too large for my requirement - I shall likely be using a NewMar product . . . thanks anyway, much appreciated.

They are all about the same size. The Blue Sea and Newmar switches are made by the same company or were. The Blue Sea 9009 http://bluesea.com/category/106/107/products/9009 and the Newmar SS-3.0 are both physically nearly identical in size with the Blue Sea actually claiming less depth. The Sterling is also in this same size range but costs approx $100.00 less...

[Carl-A259]

All this just to plug a hole in the boat??

[Skipper599]

All this just to plug a hole in the boat??

Hey Carl, I hear ya - I'm beginning to have second thoughts about it too. I didn't realise installing a small selector switch would turn into such a problem of choices. The basic idea seemed good at the time but I now wonder if I won't just run a single power line and leave the other as an ornamental fixture.

I'll make my decision after I receive tech info from the various suppliers I have contacted.

[mitiempo]

Bob

How about a vent?

[Carl-A259]

OR..... maybe ..... A two post quick connect lead to the batteries for a charger, you can buy the whole shebang from a truck parts house or maybe a RV dealer. The connect is generally used for semi trucks when they have a hydraulic lift tailgate on the trailer. Or a romantic recessed mood light !!!!!!

[bigd14]

I'm having trouble envisioning exactly where this is, but how about a gauge of some kind? There must be a gauge with a similar diameter.

[mitiempo]

It is on the outside of the cockpit coamings - a louse place for a gauge I think.

[bigd14]

Lousy place for a switch too I guess. I that case, my vote is for a mood light!

http://www.yachtlights.com/item--SpotLE ... ye--343980

[Skipper599]

Hi forum members, I searched my pictures and found one shot of the Port side coaming with a shore-power receptacle installed. The Stbd. side is identical.

As you see, it's in a highly visible location. I did not want to patch-repair the hole because for one thing, I totally dislike doing fibreglass work, I'm not good at it and I wouldn't stand a hope of creating a blemish free finish. As well, there's a high possibility the teak work could become a casualty.

I've yet to obtain and change the fuel inlet fittings. The one you see aft of the receptacle has surface corosion rippling the chrome. As stated in another post, I intend to use the same "angled" inlets that Tim used on his vessel.

Coaming mounted shore power and fuel fill receptacles