Some Rookie Questions

[christopher]

This is a branch off of my B29 Photos thread, but I wanted to isolate the topic. I have a marine supply store less than a mile from my house and even though my boat is buried in snow and ice, I'd like to start getting some materials in order.

I have a couple of rookie questions:

Are cockpit drain hoses and through hull hoses typically the same size? I didn't measure mine when I was up there last, but I would like to replace all the through hull hoses, cockpit drain hoses and raw water intake hose with new ones and new clamps. Can I assume that my through hull hoses will be a certain size or is it variable?

I haven't searched the forum yet, and I think Tim might have posted a brand, but if not are there any brands/styles/types of hoses that are recommended?

I'm going to build new companionway stairs... It covers the A4 and partially supports the port dinette berth. Given that it will likely get wet a lot, should I use Teak? I was going to attempt to do some fancy joinery but I'm thinking I may just use solid planks for the stairway as I'm not a master woodworker and the stairs will often be under load.

More than anything I need to get new interior cushions. I have to make this boat as pleasant looking (and smelling) as possible before the wife steps aboard. If she gets on the boat and finds it to be clean and smell free she's going to like it and that's my PRIMARY focus. She likes boating around the harbor on a sunny day a lot and if she is comfortable on the boat I'll have a happy summer. Any tips for eliminating smell besides new cushions? I went through and wiped down all the surfaces with an all purpose lemonish cleaner, but there are a lot of areas that undoubtedly hold moisture and smell.

One other thing... any issue with the deck paint and non-skid if I ask the marina to power wash the decks when they do the bottom? ie. will it strip off any paint/non-skid?

[Rachel]

Hi Christopher,

I only have a moment here, but I'll chip in:

1) The hose sizes for seacocks are fairly variable, and it's almost a given that you won't have just one size. For example, on my A-30:

a) Cockpit drains - 1-1/4"
b) Engine intake - 1/2" (I made it 3/4" when I re-did them)
c) Galley sink drain - 1-1/4" (but often 1-1/2" I think).
d) Galley saltwater intake - 1/2" (eliminated)
e) Head intake - 3/4"
d) Head drain - 1-1/2" (eliminated)

Essentially, the seacock size determines the hose size, although you can fiddle with it a bit (for example, you can use Groco "full flow" PTH connectors, which bump the hose size up 1/4" from the seacock size).

Even though I'm sure you're itching to buy stuff, I would hold off on any hose/seacock items. That's not because you won't want to replace them (I bet you will), but because you may actually want to go further, once you see your seacocks (or lack thereof). On my boat, I removed all of the gate valves, and put in "real" seacocks; in the process I eliminated some and changed others (for example, I moved the head intake).

For brands, Trident makes good hose, but there are other good brands too.

On the cushions, well, that depends on what shape they are in. Maybe your foam is deteriorated or not good enough anyway. But if it is, and you want it really clean, I would suggest that you remove it from the covers and give it the "grape stomp" treatment, either in a bathtub or outside on a blue tarp. Soap, and maybe a small amount of bleach or vinegar? Then rinse and dry. If the foam is worth it.

Okay, back to the salt mines...

Rachel

[Tim]

Brand of hose isn't that important, Type of hose is. Underwater through hull fittings should be equipped with hardwall reinforced hose. There are several different types and brands--too many to cover here. Any supplier's catalog or website will show the numerous varieties for your general researching pleasure.

The hose sidewall reinforcement will be either fabric or a single or double wire helix. Wire-reinforced hose is designed to accommodate bends, while fabric reinforced hose won't take as much of a bend without kinking. For severe bends, there's a corrugated wire-reinforced hose that works well.

Your sizes are likely to be all over the place. Forget about standardizing, unfortunately.

If you're replacing a hose, replace the clamps too. No matter what they look like. New hose = new clamps (to me, at least). I suggest only AWAB brand hose clamps, or equivalent (i.e. all 316ss, including the screw, and solid-banded, not perforated). Of course this means many different sizes of clamps too, each sized appropriately for the given hose.

Use whatever wood you like for the companionway, though it ought to coordinate with whatever else you have in your interior. Just protect whatever wood accordingly against moisture with a finish of some sort. If you want to leave treads bare for traction, etc., stick with something that excels in a raw state, like teak.

I have low tolerance for old nasty cushions in any situation, so you won't like my cushion advice; therefore, I won't say it. I bet you can guess what I would say if I were to say it.

[christopher]

I have low tolerance for old nasty cushions in any situation, so you won't like my cushion advice; therefore, I won't say it. I bet you can guess what I would say if I were to say it.

The cushions are getting replaced... period. I, like you, have a low tolerance for old nasty anything. Who knows what kind of funk is in those things from 40 years of hanky-panky, sweat soaked behinds, and anything else I don't want to know about. I gutted the boat of anything not nailed down when I was up there last. Unfortunately the cushions wouldn't fit through the tiny gap I was able to chip away under the icebound cover, although somehow I squeezed through. There's a foam supplier on my way home from work and I want to get sizing info from the existing cushions and replace the foam and have my mother-in-law sew some new covers.

If anyone has any other advice for removing the "vintage" smell from the boat aside from the cushions please share. I'd like to do as much as possible while underway weather and luck permitting. I'm guessing it's going to be about a 2, maybe 3 day cruise. I've got a tiller pilot so I'm hoping that the weather and battery system cooperate for its use so I can get some work done. Engine compartment is a likely suspect for smelliness as is the bilge but there's a gigantic metal water tank in the way...

[Case]

I haven't done it myself (no need to do so) but is there any zippers on the old cushions? If so, then unzip, remove those old foam. Throw it away. They're probably the source of the stink. Then put the cushion covers in a tub full of detergent and swish it around. Hang dry. Maybe do it again if it still smells. Buy new foam and install it in. This may not work but its worth a shot. New cushions are the best route but pretty costly.

Buy new foam from non-marine places. Marine stores will charge an arm or a leg for foam cushions. If new foam is too costly, well, I have no further advice...

- Case

[Quetzalsailor]

Ditto: re seacocks: best bronze or Marelon, bolted; see older posts on this site. You really only want to do this once. Ditto: re hoses and clamps: best reinforced and stainless; see older posts re: double clamping. There are different types of hoses for different purposes; spend a little more time researching. Head - sewage - hose is an interesting topic since the products conveyed are remarkably capable of seeping smells, and it's never good. I think the white PVC sold for the purpose is adequate; not even high quality rubber is.

With respect to cushions: first task would be to find out why they smell. There may be current leaks, past leaks now cured, spills. Clearly, current leaks need to be cured before you ruin new cushions. Get them home and dry them. Take the foam out of the covers; wash the covers. If not good enough, the covers make good patterns, particularly if they're original. If the foam is sound, not crumbling, but old, consider replacing it anyway. Find a foam shop in your area whose primary business is foam - you will see huge, I mean huge, cakes of foam and table-tennis sized bandsaws. They'll tell you how stiff your foam is and advise how stiff your new foam should be. And it's a great time to have the cushions made thicker. 4" beats 3" for comfort. And they'll match the shapes with their bandsaws. Buy the best you can afford; it's too much trouble to do twice. We used $2/yd denim and reused most of the old foam, but we sold the boat within 5 years. It was susceptable to sun fading and stains.

I rebuilt the companionway stair in that same boat. I had intended to use Teak, but I had a stash of Sean-Teak (Sean gave it to me); it was a pressure treated yellow pine with a brown color instead of the usual green. Such a rehearsal is useful, in lieu of ruining expensive Teak, and if your design is simple, the pieces make good templates. It looked quite good!

[Tim]

Most boats stink because all those lockers, bilge spaces, and hidden areas are full of funky gunky gunk and funk. Dirt attracts moisture, which attracts salt (well, OK, not in fresh water lakes like where you are), which attracts dirt and moisture...on and on. Even without the salt from an oceanic environment, dirt begets more dirt, moisture, dirt, and moisture. And dirt. And mildew, mold, and who knows what else. And dirt.

Clean the whole boat, thoroughly. Scrub those dirty lockers. Soak the bilge with detergent. Take everything out and hose or wipe it all down with detergent. Change the head hoses. A sweet-smelling boat begins--and can only exist--with clean lockers and bilges. It won't be fun or easy, but if you get everything clean you'll be the better for it.

[bcooke]

Given that it will likely get wet a lot, should I use Teak?]

Not really. Teak is nice but it is terribly expensive. Just protect the wood well. The real beauty of teak, in my opinion, is that you can treat it badly, ignore it, postpone varnish too long, etc. and with a little sanding and scrubbing bring it back into 'like new' condition.

With a modest amount of care you can use a host of nice looking woods at a fraction of the cost. Pick a wood that matches your interior.

[Hirilondë]

I agree with many in regards to using teak as an interior wood. It is beautiful, and certainly a good choice, but so many other choices look great and don't break the bank. My boat has a mahogany interior. I have kept some of it and replaced, covered, and added using all sorts of mahoganies and "mock" mahoganies. Build your ladder out of something that you like.

If you look in the lower right of this photo you can just catch part of my companionway ladder. It is the one that came with the boat. I saw no reason to replace it. I did however replace the rubber tread mats with raw teak half round slats to create a non-skid surface. The pieces are screwed on after varnishing and can be removed for future varnishing, then replaced. I like how it looks. It functions superbly as an anti-slip surface, and it allows maintenance. I think the teak slats look good on virtually any varnished wood ladder.

[Rachel]

Wow, nice!

I agree with you --- that's a really nice look on the companionway ladder and it does sound completely functional too.

Would you mind telling more about the fixed-port frames? How are they made and how do they interface with the original frame (if there is one) and/or the pane itself? Nifty!

Rachel

[KITTIEanME]

Hirilonde I have the same question as Rachel. The fixed ports treatments are absolutely beautiful and I sure would like to know how you created them. I am replacing the ports in my Kittiwake with Lexan and have planned to make the interior frames from mahogany. TOM

Absolutely Beautiful!

[forrest]

If you want to assure a happy wife, replace your head hoses, if they are anything like the rest of the boat they are probably contributing quite a bit to your funk.

forrest

[Rachel]

I was going to say that too... but then I thought I remembered you having a Porta Potti? But yeah, if there are head hoses, no matter how white and substantial they look, I'd say, "Out with them!"

In the big picture, I agree completely with Tim. It's a bit of work, but it's hard to beat cleaned, prepped, and painted lockers (and bilge) for making a pleasant boat. And the new, smooth surface contributes vastly to being able to keep it clean, especially if you try to eliminate the most egregiously dirt trapping of fiberglass "flags" and the like.

One thing about starting with it a bit disheveled: The "before" and "after" contrast is really satisfying!

Oh, another thought pertaining to helping someone who is less enthusiastic than you (initially), is to think about comfort. Is there a comfortable place to sit in the cockpit? A cushion or pad to lean against? Down below, make sure that wherever you sleep is comfortable, and that the settees (or dinette) are comfortable to sit at. If you like to read, a good light. Think comfortable, homey ambience :)

If I had a less-enthusiastic mate, I would try to make sure the boat was a fun time, with little work involved for the person-shortly-to-be-hooked-on-sailing :) Maybe stock up on some extravagences you don't usually have at home, whether it be good coffee, wine, or whatever. And when you do get out sailing, give that person the helm or other real tasks too (or at least the option).

Okay, I'm digressing :)

Rachel

[christopher]

I've been contemplating the chainplate replacement ideas. With respect to the pin through the bulkhead/knee, would a sleeve be of any benefit for the pin to run through? It may be overkill, but may also add some rigidity to the through bolts. Might cause more problems than it's worth though... Thoughts?