Disassembly advice

[BS Smith]

Just a few more deck pieces to remove, but am again stymied. Would be embarrassed to ask what I hope will be obvious to others, but the fellow forum member seeking enter key advice increased the comfort level (contrasted to past pictures of much too beautiful cabin soles and tables, to die for workshops, that beyond envy at times yield a “geez, I really have stumbled into the wrong website” feeling...).

So, wheel has been disconnected from pendant and pedestal from deck, but am unable to disassemble further. The compass is mounted on a “Kelvin-White; National Instruments ; Los Angeles, Boston, New York” binnacle secured by four short screws. Between binnacle and pedestal is a bracket, presumably Edson, the guard passes through.

Initially thought the guard could be removed by sliding through the bracket, but the lower portion of the guard tubes seem a larger diameter and don’t pass through. Removing the binnacle should permit removal of the bracket (among other benefits) but after the four screws have been removed, the binnacle still won’t budge. Am reluctant to apply brute force close by that pretty compass.

Any advice? Here’s a picture:



Second question: Am also unable to remove the cockpit well mounted shifter/throttle:



There’s a set screw at the bottom of the throttle handle. The plate the handle sits on covers screws threaded into the well, whose pointy ends are visible inside the cockpit locker. Would think the disassembly drill is: remove set screw, pull handle, slide/shift plate to remove, remove screws securing mechanism to well.

I get as far as “remove set screw”—the handle doesn’t budge.

Again, advice welcomed. (The very heavy, very pretty pedestal includes separate throttle and shifter controls, presumably abandoned in a past repower. Would like to convert from the current too ski boat like shin-knocker to original arrangements, but would prefer not to be forced into this plan by destroying the shifter/throttle.)

Lastly: The wheel nut was removed easily, but simple pulling doesn’t remove the wheel:



Use a gear puller?

Frustration with lack of progress on these small points kept me away from the boat today. It didn’t help that I managed to lose two (!) of the binnacle screws and one other when exploring the throttle/shifter backside, the latter set aside particularly so it wouldn’t be misplaced. With what’s been lost in the deep bilge along the way, a new boot stripe seems inevitable…

Thanks,

BS

[Tim]

Am also unable to remove the cockpit well mounted shifter/throttle...

That looks like a Teleflex-type control, similar or identical to the one in this manual. Perhaps there's some information or schematic in the manual that will help you.

Teleflex CH2100 Control Manual (PDF FIle)

Lastly: The wheel nut was removed easily, but simple pulling doesn’t remove the wheel...

The wheel mounts to a tapered shaft with a keyway, much like a propeller. Over time, these tend to get jammed on, by use and the usual minor corrosion between the parts. Gentle persuasion with a non-marring mallet, or careful use of a puller ought to do the trick.

[Chris Campbell]

Hi Brian,

I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to do in the first question. Are you trying to get the binnacle out of the cockpit? In that case you can disconnect the steering cables (and any wiring) from below, and it should come free.

If you're looking to remove the housing the compass is sitting in, which is attached to the top of the binnacle, that's something else. On Weatherbird (same binnacle, probably the same compass and housing) the compass wasn't actually attached to the housing, so it was easy to remove the compass and then have access to the inside of that sleeve it mounts in for removal. I doubt that it was supposed to be loose like that, though, and it doesn't sound like yours is. Are there some screws around the circumference of the compass that you can remove to get it out? That'd be my first step, I think.

If this doesn't help and you're still stuck, take some additional pictures of the compass mounting and the sleeve that it mounts in connecting to the binnacle and we'll all have another go at it!

And of course Tim's spot on in his solutions to the other two problems.

Cheers,

Chris

[Homer]

I had to remove an old Teleflex throttle when repowering last year. Same problem with the handle. Remove the set screw, push in the neutral button and do your best to fill the joint with something like PB Blaster's penetrating catalyst. It worked and no violence was required.

[Quetzalsailor]

BS,

Your binnacle looks identical to mine and they are supposed to be LeComte-made. The stainless portion of mine certainly looks homemade inside!

In the picture in which you've focussed on the hub of the wheel, you see two of the four screws that hold a cap down to the body of the binnacle: remove them and everything above comes off neatly. Mine lifts off easily; you might have to encourage yours with a block of hardwood and a hammer. Gently, you will not wish to damage the compass. Place the block so that you knock on the bottom of the turned-down edge; mine's plenty thick and would take abuse. Go 'round and round; possibly just burrs at the screw holes. I have remediation to do to mine: my tapped screw holes are stripped, the Edson ring is not concentric with the binnacle, the bolts retaining the compass are impossible to deal with w/o dissassembly. I'd like to weld nuts in for all 8 screws.

My wheel comes right off. Remove the nut, jiggle and pull. I recall that it's a tapered shaft. Use a puller; should be OK.

Overall, I'd have to say that the bearings and all are poorly done with no real bearings; they're bits of pipe and rod and there's no way to keep 'em lubricated. Planning to add zerks. My steering is stiff enough that the Monitor has no chance and the wheel squeeks when turned, even after lubrication.


As for your shifter, good luck! Be carefully liberal with the penetrating oil (which will screw up fiberglass finishing efforts later), and take your time. I had to drill out the setscrews on my Morgan 27's Martec, but it eventually came apart.

[Tim]

On your shifter, also remember that it's just not worth too much of your time to save the old one, so give it your best shot, but don't waste your valuable restoration time (and energy and interest) trying to remove something that can be easily replaced for little money.

Clearly, the nice custom pedestal is worth additional effort, but I'd trash that cheesy shifter in a heartbeat rather than waste much more than an hour or so on it. If you have to, just cut a hole in the cockpit to remove it.

Yes, really. Given the condition of your boat, and the amount of work ahead, patching a hole is a whole lot easier, quicker, and more efficient than wasting time on fussy, frozen setscrews--and you'll need to patch the existing hole anyway since you plan to recommission the pedestal controls (as you should).

[Rachel]

Homer,

Not to turn the thread away from its proper subject, but.... I see you snuck in a first post, with nary a mention of the pretty gal in your avatar :)

Welcome to the forum! I hope you'll start a thread to show us a bit more of your boat. I know I'm not the only one who would love to see more.

Rachel

[Homer]

Rachel,

I shall. Thanks.

[Homer]

Gotta agree with Tim. That thing is pretty ratty looking. Buy a new one with a "sail" handle.

[BS Smith]

I’ve now a new hole in the boat; see pic w/ product placement (not to worry; removed in a matter of minutes “after consultation”):



Was less successful in removing the wheel. A series of hard knocks via hammer and 10 inch scrap of 2x2 succeeded only in splitting the wood driver. Or so I thought, but then noticed the force had spun and lifted the pedestal cap a bit. A few more knocks on the cap had it free:



The binnacle was secured to the cap by machine screws installed down through the binnacle with nuts on the underside of the pedestal cap; that is, without removing the compass from binnacle the screw heads were inaccessible. Because tiny Phillips-headed screws securing compass to binnacle appeared “one time use only” I left them attached. For a change, corrosion worked in my favor—the binnacle to cap screws were sufficiently frozen to allow removal of their securing nuts. If I never make it to the end of this tunnel, at least there’ll be a nice ornament for the living room:



Once again, I’m glad when old things finally are apart, as it too often makes clear—“boy, it’s bad in here.” In addition to corroded adjustment points, half the binnacle brackets were gone:



It’s also clear the guard bracket won’t slide down off the guard—the tubing’s lower section has an expanded “retainer ring.” No need to remove it for my purposes, but this seems an unwieldy way for Edson to ship the guard.

Tomorrow I’ll get a puller and then finally should remove the wheel.

Many thanks for all your help. And additional welcome to Homer! Nice boat!!

Brian

[BS Smith]

Anyone interested in the pedestal internals, here you are:



BS

[Chris Campbell]

LeComte certainly made things solid!

[Quetzalsailor]

Now the rest of you can see what I mean by 'home made' looking. I do not have the steering lock that you do; otherwise all looks very much the same.

Perhaps someone else knows what an Edson binnacle looks like inside so that we can copy the lubrication system. I have the same sleeves and oiling holes BS has, and there's no way to get the grease into the bearings.

I think my Edson bracket and hoop slide right apart; I simply slid the compass and bracket up the tubes to access the bearings for lubrication and the hoop is simply tubing.

Looks like you could take the nut off the other end of the wheel shaft and slide it out of the binnacle. Then the wheel could be laid across something solid with a hole or gap adjacent to the hub. Swat the other end of the shaft to knock it out of the wheel. But you have at least the rest of the winter to let penetrating oil do its job.

[Shoalcove]

I replaced my Teleflex SL3 this year after no little amount of frustration. As they corrode they have a nasty habit of freezing in neutral which causes some serious anxiety. I liked the Kobelt models a lot but ended up with a new SL3 to fit the same holes and save $$$. Money well spent.
It'll look great when it's done.
David

[BS Smith]

The gear puller did the trick. Was good sized, with 8.5” arms. Took a fair amount of screw torque before the loud “crack!”. Thought for sure there’d be pieces there weren’t supposed to be, but all was well and the wheel simply gave up its post. Don’t think it ever would have happened without the puller, PB notwithstanding.

Regards,

BS

[Quetzalsailor]

We're just back from a week on Quetzal. Fall sailing on the Chesapeake at its best: pleasant weather and lots of wind and few powerboats!

With respect to this post, I amused (and pleased) myself by dissassembling our binnacle as Sue sailed the boat up the Wye River last Thursday. Off came the Edson hoop, the table, the drinks holder, and the top assembly including the Edson bracket and the compass. The steering had become even stiffer and squeaky. Some may recall that I had tried to lubricate it last year, to no good result. I spent about 2 hours dripping oil into the two oiling holes on the bearings, using a bamboo shish and motor oil. By the end of that time, the steering was completely free, and without squeaks. A black goo worked its way out along the shaft, which I cleaned up as it oozed.

Turns out that there is indeed a bronze bearing at the aft end of the wheel shaft, the sprocket is bronze, but the forward end is stainless-stainless. It's the forward end that's sloppy. There's not much slop in the bronze bearing.

I reassembled the thing and all was much better! Now, I want to add oiler cap and tubing so that I do not have to dissassemble the world for a cc of oil.

[Quetzalsailor]

BS,

What's the construction of your cockpit floor? I think I see foam core at the edge of the hole under Verena's binnacle (you posted her picture above.

I don't see cracking around your cockpit seat; our cockpit seat is is cracked between the aft lazarette lids and the cockpit, particularly on starboard, and it's cracked from the starboard forward corner of the cockpit well towards the starboard forward corner of the cockpit seat.

I think that LeComte buried PVC electrical conduit in the foam core of the deck. Any sign of that on yours? Neat idea, but I don't want to grind into any.

[BS Smith]

Doug,

Of late have been well away from the boat at the more southern location indicated at left. (My restoration efforts seem rapid only in comparison to when I’m away…)

My photo file has nothing relevant and my memory nothing reliable. Will let you know after I’ve revisited the scene.

BS

[BS Smith]

Doug,

Six months later I’ve returned north and to the boat…

You asked construction of NE38 #82’s cockpit floor. If still of interest, it’s 1” total thickness, with ¼” glass above and below a ½” core.

You also have asked if there’s anything holding glass in the NE38’s small ports other than the trim ring. On #82, no—the port collar/ spigot is mounted and screwed into the cabin trunk from inboard, the glass sits in a ½” wide depressed lip in the spigot’s inboard side, and the trim or retaining ring encloses the glass and screws into the spigot, of course also from inboard. A couple pictures are attached.

Inboard view:



Outboard:




Apologies for the untimely reply.

BS