Help with a frozen seacock....

[Tom Javor]

Was supposed to launch tomorrow but have had to postpone that. And yes, I know I should have checked this before now but the handle had been repositioned on the valve so that it appeared to be closed..... Had no intent to use the old discharge headso I wasn't concerned with it. Luckily I filled the bowl with clean water today in order to rinse it out. When I went to swing the discharge valve I discovered it frozen. At first I wasn't worried, I thought it was in the closed position. Then I decided maybe I should verify that by trying to pump out the bowl and lo and behold it pumped dry and I had a plume of water shooting into the driveway.....

I realize that the direct discharge arrangement is illegal and have purchased a portapotti type thing to use on board. I was willing to take my chances if I got stopped for an inspection that they could see the DD head was not in use, etc. Also I was trying to avoid dealing with removing the head and plugging holes this late in the season.

Below is a picture of the valve in place, so far I have soaked it with WD40 from both ends and by removing the small service plugs top and bottom, I have put a small amount of heat to it with a torch and have tried a piece of black iron pipe over the repositioned valve handle in order to gain more leverage. I'm afraid to apply too much pressure to the handle via the pipe since I don;t want to disturb the through hull seal.

Currently I'm thinking that if I remove the nuts on the right side in the picture that I may be able to tap the center with a deadblow hammer an remove the mechanism and then service/lubricate it. I'm not convinced that disassembling the valve is my best option.
The head needs to go so why spend time repairing something that is going away?

Alternatively I'm thinking I could remove the head discharge hose and the elbow fitting above the valve - it appears threaded - and then get a bronze cap and plenty of pipe dope to seal off the valve and just leave it in place for the season. Also would come up with a plug for the hose in order to avoid any sort of odor from there.

Thoughts? Alternate suggestions?



Thanks

[Zach]

First loosen the nuts, take a piece of bronze/aluminum/copper and lay it against the end of the nuts. Smack the block with a hammer repeatedly. A two pound hammer give or take is as much butt as I like to put on bronze pieces... don't want to tweak anything. A deadblow is real nice for freeing up stuff that already moves a little, not so great for freeing up stuff that no longer remembers it is two pieces... at least in my opinion. Grin.

Drive a wooden plug into it from the outside and fill it up with PB blaster for a few days. Remove the plug.

Then take your torch and heat up the center until it gets hot. Use a mapp gas torch, goes quicker. This takes a few minutes. You don't want to heat up the outside body of the through hull just the valve... as the body has a lot more mass than the valve, you can pretty well let it be and not cook the hull.

Have a helper check the outside, or see if you can pull the 90 degree elbow loose to make sure your oil isn't catching on fire.

Your piece of black iron pipe needs to be 2-3 feet long to gain sufficient leverage if it is really crusty.

Oughta work... if not, longer pipe and hammer on the valve while pressure is applied.

Good luck,

Zach

[Quetzalsailor]

I'm not so sure I like penetrating fluid soaking into my fiberglass; it's got to, at the least, make subsequent sealing and bonding difficult.

Give yourself a week or so with penetrating fluid and genteel force, then...

Get it over with: Remove it and replace it.

[Rachel]

I'd be inclined to just get rid of it (since you don't plan to have a seacock in use there), but then I may get carried away at times.

On the penetrating oil: Would it even be touching the fiberglass if it were going in around the cone? I mean, assuming there is an intact through hull going in from the outside?

Zach, I like the wooden plug/soaking idea.

Rachel

[Tom Javor]

I plugged the through hull last night and attempted to loosen the innards of the valve by loosening the nuts and striking that end over blocking and got no where. Went ahead and soaked it all with PB Blaster after I carefully covered surronding 'glas with plastic trash bag used like a surgical drape with a hole cut for the valve. Makes sense to keep the solvent away from the 'glas plus I'mstill contending wth lingering mouse odor - thoughts of the 2 combined were a bit much to contemplate.

Had I checked this valve when I should have I would have just removed it along with the intake. At this point I'm reluctant to be putting holes in the hull. If the valve won;t come loose what I am doing - and even i it does come loose to satisfy havng the DD head disabled - is attaching a piece of hose to the elbow, running it up to the top height of the cabin, securing it to a bracket that is there and pluggng it. Triple hose clamps on the elbow and double on the plug along with resecuring the plug in the bronze thru hull ought to make this tight enough for the balance of this year. Then removing the blasted thing coes to the top of the project list for this winter.

[Rachel]

I'm with you on the PB Blaster odor. I keep hoping Kroil works as well, because it doesn't smell as bad (not sure if it is as good though).

It almost makes mouse odor seem preferable (but not quite).

I sympathize with you on that situation as my A-30 had a long-term-gas-in-the-bilge smell that was a real devil to deal with. Now the first thing I do when looking at boat is open the companionway and take a sniff.

Rachel

[DaleH]

Since you say you're going to remove it anyway, I would have just filled it with epoxy ... maybe thickened with kitty hair.

[Tom Javor]

What I'm going to do is epoxy a wooden plug in the exterior side of both the inlet and drain, let the epoxy cure, cut flush and slap some bottom paint on the raw wood. I addition I'm going to put a piece of plugged hose on the elbow and secure it well above the waterline. A bit of redundancy feels good when dealing with a hole in the bottom of the boat....

I think I may have isolated the source of the mouse stink - just below the companionway is the winch arrangement for the centerboard - it was packed with "stuff" when I began cleaning and now, even though vaced and washed down it has a rather nasty brown brew in the bottom. My guess is that's the major source of the stink..... Now, how to get it out without slopping it allover myself, the floorboards. bilge, etc.....

Launch is rescheduled for Thurs, pick up here at the house about 7 30 am.

Been thinking of Pandalus as the name- genus for Maine Shrimp, a favorite food and a play on the size. If I can't rid her of the smell it may end up as Toppo Gigo (spelling?) the mouse from the Ed Sullivan Show - or was it Jack Benny?

[Zach]

If it was me, I wouldn't want to take the time to do all that rather than just pull it out and replace. If you've got the time/money go ahead and order the stuff to put in a new one in the event it doesn't unstick. Do what Tim recommends and grind the through hull off the hull with a metal grinding disc. When it's down to the gelcoat go inside the boat and put a big pair of channel locks on the body of the seacock and unthread it from the through-hull that is stuck in the sealant. If it doesn't want to turn, hop outside and hit the inside of the through hull with a torch till the sealant bubbles and unthread...

Beats trying to hammer them loose.

An afternoon type topic... If you've got everything on hand, and a holesaw a weee bit larger than the threads on the old through hull in the event somebody glued it in with 5200. (Insert wailing sounds here)

Zach

[Oscar]

I'm with you on the PB Blaster odor.

I like that odor...... It IS citrus based.

[Tim]

PB Blaster is hydrocarbon based with no citrus component:

MSDS for PB Blaster

[Rachel]

I was wondering about that - I didn't even want to know what citrus fruit that would have been! Yech.

[Tom Javor]

In the interest of time I plugged the exterior of the through hull set in epoxy, cut off the plug and then epoxied over the surface.
Inside the cabin I disconnected the two hoses from the head and brought new pieces of hose to the cabintop, plugged them and secured in place. No sign of water in either hose but better safe than sorry. This fall the through hulls come out.

Removed the old Jabsco head this evening, trying to decide about trashing it or consignment shop with it...