Howdy all,
I'm looking for some good example pictures, or links to such, of boats with maple interiors. I am deciding what material to rebuild our Hardstad's interior with, and am leaning towards maple, not only for its lower cost, but that is a factor. In researching it, I've discovered there a lot more kinds of maple than I thought, and I'm trying to find some examples of the different kinds.
Thanks a lot!
Maple Interiors
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Tony
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Maple Interiors
Tony
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dasein668
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I would definately consider maple as a possibility for an interior, but would mention tha the best looking maples also tend to be miserable woods to work?hard on the tools and the woodoworker.
I haven't seen any maple interiors myself, but Scheherezade has a curly sycamore interior that at first glance I thought was probably figured maple. I think Tim and I posted a couple of interior shots of her in another thread.
I haven't seen any maple interiors myself, but Scheherezade has a curly sycamore interior that at first glance I thought was probably figured maple. I think Tim and I posted a couple of interior shots of her in another thread.
Nathan
dasein668.com
dasein668.com
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Tim
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I don't think I've ever really seen a maple interior, though I don't particularly know why maple wouldn't be suitable. I agree with Nathan that maple can be a real pain to work with--and unfigured (read as: less expensive) maples are rather plain looking, as the grain is very fine. But the light color can be very attractive, and would make for a pleasing interior, especially with some darker-wood accents. Just about any darker wood would be a nice compliment to the maple--cherry, mahogany, teak, walnut, etc.
The real answer to your question is this: if you like maple, and have a source for inexpensive maple that you think would look great inside your boat, then I can think of no reason why you shouldn't use it. If you're unfamiliar with the working qualities of maple, however, I recommend you try a test project first.
There are a million "types" of maple...I know nothing of the differences or various pros and cons, unfortunately. But I believe any wood can be used on a boat interior in a non-structural application.
I saw a boat with a unique Elm interior once...quite nice. I figure if the pathetic excuse for an elm in my front yard ever completely dies, I may try to save some of the wood for some cabinet-type use (if it's any good, that is...). Meanwhile, I refuse to give up hope for the tree's survival.
The real answer to your question is this: if you like maple, and have a source for inexpensive maple that you think would look great inside your boat, then I can think of no reason why you shouldn't use it. If you're unfamiliar with the working qualities of maple, however, I recommend you try a test project first.
There are a million "types" of maple...I know nothing of the differences or various pros and cons, unfortunately. But I believe any wood can be used on a boat interior in a non-structural application.
I saw a boat with a unique Elm interior once...quite nice. I figure if the pathetic excuse for an elm in my front yard ever completely dies, I may try to save some of the wood for some cabinet-type use (if it's any good, that is...). Meanwhile, I refuse to give up hope for the tree's survival.
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Tony
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No, I've never worked maple before, so I'll try a test project first. Mostly I'm looking at maple plywood with mahogony and/or teak trim. We have a relatively large solid teak folding leaf cabin table that makes sort of a center piece, and due to the demolition I have a variety of misc. teak pieces. I thought that the fine grain of the maple would look nice set off by teak and mahogany trim. Thoughts? I'm fortunate to have on of the larger hardwood suppliers in the area just ten or so minutes away from the marina, so variety of woods not a question, just price and looks :-)
Hope y'all had a merry christmas!
Hope y'all had a merry christmas!
Tony
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Tim
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Teak and mahogany can be used in harmony very nicely, so reuse what teak you can for your trim and, to save money if you can't (and rightly so) swallow the startling cost of new teak, choose good Honduras mahogany for new stock. Just don't expect side-by-side matching, but you can certainly mix the two in the same interior. If you're planning on mostly maple plywood, then most of the workability issues become irrelevant. It would be pleasing to contrast the light maple with the darker teak/mahogany, I think.
Other thoughts: birch can be nice if properly finished (it can be kind of yellow-y under varnish, though), and is relatively inexpensive and available. Ash is nice and bright, but features a heavy oak-like grain--which may or may not be what you want or like. It's tough to beat cherry for beauty and warmth, coupled with affordable cost. And mahogany is easy to work with, beautiful, and inexpensive (relatively) as well--not to mention traditional.
Other thoughts: birch can be nice if properly finished (it can be kind of yellow-y under varnish, though), and is relatively inexpensive and available. Ash is nice and bright, but features a heavy oak-like grain--which may or may not be what you want or like. It's tough to beat cherry for beauty and warmth, coupled with affordable cost. And mahogany is easy to work with, beautiful, and inexpensive (relatively) as well--not to mention traditional.
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Dave, 397
My first thought with maple is that it would need to be well-sealed. Otherwise, it has a wonderful tendency to turn various colors of grey and black and start to go punky, especially with salts at it.
The more figure in the maple, the harder it is to deal with working.
There are a lot of different names applied, but we can break them down into Eastern and Western maples. Eastern maple, often referred to as "rock Maple" is much harder, stronger and often lighter in weight. Most bird's-eye figured stuff is from the east. The bird's eyeas are places where the tree was putting out shoots, or tying to, as it grew. Also sometimes referred to as "sugar Maple", although this term can be applied for whatever reason to either variety depending on the seller.
"Flame Maple", "tiger Maple", etc. are generally eastern maples. The flame patterned stuff vcomes from lower on the tree, towards the base. As the tree gets more and more massive (think old-growth here), the weight of the tree pushing down vertically on itself causes compression and the flame figure results. Flame is usually quartersawn to get the visual effect.
"burl Maple" can come from either east or west, although generally the eastern maples are the only ones which take on the dramatic and defined figure involved. Often slab-sawn in order to show the burls to their best, this wood really comes from the stump in most cases...like the bird's eyes only you're looking at the roots instead of shoots.
Western maples are generally softer and less stable. "Western Red Maple", "Quilt maple" , "Bubble Maple" all fall into this heading. Although softer and less dense, the western maples can actually weigh more sometimes (and we are talking about a similar stage of cure and EMC).
The real dramatic, wavy-gravy crazy stuff is usually slabsawn and usually hapens from a tree that twisted regularly with the seasons...so it is best to keep in mind that you are dealing with reaction wood and remember that troubles are plenty, stability-wise, if the parts do not have a fair amount of mass. Quilt comes to be in similar fashion to flame in some cases and burl in others, the blister or "bubble" figure is usually from towards the stump as a counterpart to a burl...or at least so I am told.
The weight and the previously mentioned discoloration are my two concerns as far as using it in a boat.
Any figured wood can be a hassle to deal with...the western maples, if figured, tend to be much worse for tearout, but in either variety the same cause is there--the figure is much harder than the surrounding material.
I have a set of tables somewhere around still with the mechanical properties of various woods...I'll make sure and dig them out today or tomorrow and post some numbers to illustrate the real differences. There are also some significant variations among mahoganies, which are rather interesting to look at...I'll put up some of them, too.
Dave
The more figure in the maple, the harder it is to deal with working.
There are a lot of different names applied, but we can break them down into Eastern and Western maples. Eastern maple, often referred to as "rock Maple" is much harder, stronger and often lighter in weight. Most bird's-eye figured stuff is from the east. The bird's eyeas are places where the tree was putting out shoots, or tying to, as it grew. Also sometimes referred to as "sugar Maple", although this term can be applied for whatever reason to either variety depending on the seller.
"Flame Maple", "tiger Maple", etc. are generally eastern maples. The flame patterned stuff vcomes from lower on the tree, towards the base. As the tree gets more and more massive (think old-growth here), the weight of the tree pushing down vertically on itself causes compression and the flame figure results. Flame is usually quartersawn to get the visual effect.
"burl Maple" can come from either east or west, although generally the eastern maples are the only ones which take on the dramatic and defined figure involved. Often slab-sawn in order to show the burls to their best, this wood really comes from the stump in most cases...like the bird's eyes only you're looking at the roots instead of shoots.
Western maples are generally softer and less stable. "Western Red Maple", "Quilt maple" , "Bubble Maple" all fall into this heading. Although softer and less dense, the western maples can actually weigh more sometimes (and we are talking about a similar stage of cure and EMC).
The real dramatic, wavy-gravy crazy stuff is usually slabsawn and usually hapens from a tree that twisted regularly with the seasons...so it is best to keep in mind that you are dealing with reaction wood and remember that troubles are plenty, stability-wise, if the parts do not have a fair amount of mass. Quilt comes to be in similar fashion to flame in some cases and burl in others, the blister or "bubble" figure is usually from towards the stump as a counterpart to a burl...or at least so I am told.
The weight and the previously mentioned discoloration are my two concerns as far as using it in a boat.
Any figured wood can be a hassle to deal with...the western maples, if figured, tend to be much worse for tearout, but in either variety the same cause is there--the figure is much harder than the surrounding material.
I have a set of tables somewhere around still with the mechanical properties of various woods...I'll make sure and dig them out today or tomorrow and post some numbers to illustrate the real differences. There are also some significant variations among mahoganies, which are rather interesting to look at...I'll put up some of them, too.
Dave
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Tony
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Tim:
The light/dark contrast is indeed what I'm leaning towards. We were initially going to go with cherry, but around here it seems to be higher in cost than elsewhere. I've had to trim our budget, so we started looking at other woods. I've looked at ash, and it's still a possibility, but I'm not fond of the heavy oak style grain (though my wife is, so the jury is still out!). My hardwood guy hasn't been able to get any honduras mahogany plywood, since the import restriction was met last August, but now that the new year is coming around, I'll revisit using that instead. I'm not real familiar with mahagony...does it always get dark, or does it stay a lighter color if sealed relatively soon?
Dave:
We're planning on using varnish on the interior surfaces, so that should seal it well enough, should it not? By choosing sheets of maple with little to no figuring, just the straight grain, I should be able to avoid the issue of serious warping/tearing, right? I'm thinking of using some figured stuff for smaller items, such as the nav station ends and such, but not for the whole boat. I'd be interested in the relative strength tables you mentioned.
On a related note, I've been considering putting in a traditional ceiling in the V-berth. How bendy is maple, would it work ok in this application, or am I asking for trouble? The curves aren't real sharp, if you want a look at the Vberth, see the pics at
Link to Tony's Hardstad Photos
(link modified by admin for better readability)
The Vberth picture doesn't show the sides too well, from what you can see, it starts curving more sharply just outside the field of view, and is straight within about 2 feet (If that doesn't make sense, just tell me). Right now theres a layer of styrofoam insulation with an extremely thin layer of teak? mahogany? veneer that was glued on with the kind of glue that says on the lable "do not use with styrofoam." You can guess what the foam looks like.
Thanks guys, you're a big help.
The light/dark contrast is indeed what I'm leaning towards. We were initially going to go with cherry, but around here it seems to be higher in cost than elsewhere. I've had to trim our budget, so we started looking at other woods. I've looked at ash, and it's still a possibility, but I'm not fond of the heavy oak style grain (though my wife is, so the jury is still out!). My hardwood guy hasn't been able to get any honduras mahogany plywood, since the import restriction was met last August, but now that the new year is coming around, I'll revisit using that instead. I'm not real familiar with mahagony...does it always get dark, or does it stay a lighter color if sealed relatively soon?
Dave:
We're planning on using varnish on the interior surfaces, so that should seal it well enough, should it not? By choosing sheets of maple with little to no figuring, just the straight grain, I should be able to avoid the issue of serious warping/tearing, right? I'm thinking of using some figured stuff for smaller items, such as the nav station ends and such, but not for the whole boat. I'd be interested in the relative strength tables you mentioned.
On a related note, I've been considering putting in a traditional ceiling in the V-berth. How bendy is maple, would it work ok in this application, or am I asking for trouble? The curves aren't real sharp, if you want a look at the Vberth, see the pics at
Link to Tony's Hardstad Photos
(link modified by admin for better readability)
The Vberth picture doesn't show the sides too well, from what you can see, it starts curving more sharply just outside the field of view, and is straight within about 2 feet (If that doesn't make sense, just tell me). Right now theres a layer of styrofoam insulation with an extremely thin layer of teak? mahogany? veneer that was glued on with the kind of glue that says on the lable "do not use with styrofoam." You can guess what the foam looks like.
Thanks guys, you're a big help.
Tony
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Tim
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Mahogany will usually darken/redden even under coats of varnish. However, this is more a function of UV light, so inside the boat it may retain some lightness longer. But don't use it if you're looking for a light wood.
I think the maple would be fine. Yes, it needs to be sealed where it could get wet, so do seal it on all sides if possible. And keep it dry. Strips of maple should work just fine for your v berth ceiling--use strips 5/16" or 1/4" thick. Maple also tends to yellow under traditional varnish, so do a sample before committing to the wood to make sure you like how it looks. You can keep it brighter if you use a clear waterborne finish, but I don't like these myself and never had pleasing results with them.
The wood on the interior should not receive continual exposure to moisture, etc, unless there's something wrong. But all parts of a boat are subject to becoming wet or damp, so there's always a chance you could have a problem. I say it's pretty unlikely in a well-maintained boat, but not impossible.
And remember that if you're using sheet goods, the normal worries about wood movement and workability, etc. don't apply--it's only a very thin veneer of the money stuff on the surface, of course. If you can get nice figured maple plywood for your larger surfaces, you should be in good shape.
I think the maple would be fine. Yes, it needs to be sealed where it could get wet, so do seal it on all sides if possible. And keep it dry. Strips of maple should work just fine for your v berth ceiling--use strips 5/16" or 1/4" thick. Maple also tends to yellow under traditional varnish, so do a sample before committing to the wood to make sure you like how it looks. You can keep it brighter if you use a clear waterborne finish, but I don't like these myself and never had pleasing results with them.
The wood on the interior should not receive continual exposure to moisture, etc, unless there's something wrong. But all parts of a boat are subject to becoming wet or damp, so there's always a chance you could have a problem. I say it's pretty unlikely in a well-maintained boat, but not impossible.
And remember that if you're using sheet goods, the normal worries about wood movement and workability, etc. don't apply--it's only a very thin veneer of the money stuff on the surface, of course. If you can get nice figured maple plywood for your larger surfaces, you should be in good shape.
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Figment
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Because I just live to throw wrenches in the works....
The thing about maple is that it's everywhere these days. Or, so it seems. Maple veneer, or simulated maple veneer has become something of a standard finish lately, and the technology behind the simulated products ("Pergo" leaps to mind) has improved to the point that it's sometimes difficut to discern the genuine from the simulation from any distance.
Case in point... I recently finished a large building that used clear-finished actual maple veneer interior doors. Not cheap stuff, either. But I swear to god they look like el-cheapo laminate. I actually suspected a bit of sneaky-substitution on the part of the contractor until I saw where one had been damaged by a ladder, revealing the depth of the actual veneer. I'm told that several random people have made similar comments about these doors, usually something to the effect of "who's the jackass designer that selected these ten-cent doors???"
You heard it here first, folks. Maple is to this decade as "walnut-grain" Formica was to the late-70's and early-80's.
The thing about maple is that it's everywhere these days. Or, so it seems. Maple veneer, or simulated maple veneer has become something of a standard finish lately, and the technology behind the simulated products ("Pergo" leaps to mind) has improved to the point that it's sometimes difficut to discern the genuine from the simulation from any distance.
Case in point... I recently finished a large building that used clear-finished actual maple veneer interior doors. Not cheap stuff, either. But I swear to god they look like el-cheapo laminate. I actually suspected a bit of sneaky-substitution on the part of the contractor until I saw where one had been damaged by a ladder, revealing the depth of the actual veneer. I'm told that several random people have made similar comments about these doors, usually something to the effect of "who's the jackass designer that selected these ten-cent doors???"
You heard it here first, folks. Maple is to this decade as "walnut-grain" Formica was to the late-70's and early-80's.
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Curmudgeon
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Maple InteriorsI plan on using maple on the ceilings of my b
I plan on using maple on the ceilings of my boat... but will be using a thicker veneer epoxied onto a backer board instead of ply or dimensional lumber. The local veneer dealer brings in maple in 1/10" thicknesses and sells it to kids who are making skateboards. That thickness might be just the thing for fitting the contoured surfaces of your vee-berth.
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The Good Goose
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maple
I saw a triton with all the normally teak formica surfaces done in Maple. This was according to the owner a boat built for a pearson exec and was done that way from the factory. It still looked pretty good. It was located in Bristol RI and the owner kept it at the Bristol yacht club. I thought it looked nice.
Brock Richardson
Brock Richardson
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Dave, 397
Ok...I promised this, so I better deliver.
Here are a bunch of specs for various common woods, hard and soft, used in boatbuilding and repair. Please note that on the Oaks and Maples in particular there are a very large number of specific varieties, and I did not list them all. These specs were taken from 'The Encyclopedia of Wood', by the U.S. Forest Service Laboratory (Published by Sterling Press).
'Understanding Wood' written by R. Bruce Hoadley, PhD. and published by Taunton Press is also an excellent (!) text for anyone serious about working wood and coming to understnd the physical properties of each material and many ways to identify, regard and handle them best.
Both books give excellent insight into the engineering properties of many woods and material...in general, I think Hoadley's book is by far the better of the two, and certainly gives much more in-depth information on many things.
'The Encyclopedia of Wood' also gives much attention to manufactured wood products (parralam, MDF, Ply, etc.). Of the two books, This One has by far the most comprehensive amount of nuts-and-bolts specs like these.
It is well worth the investment to buy both books, I think...but in general unless one NEEDS all this data, Hoadley's 'Understanding Wood' is probably the best of the two by far.
For those who truly want it all, the Forest Service does (or at least did) publish a very complete set of tables covering just about every wood known to man...they were pretty costly, but real impressive. Needed to reinforce a bookshelf to hold 'em and all...
Specs given are all for "Dry" wood. Where given, the exact moisture content will be included, followed by two backslashes. After this, specific gravity. Next come static bending specs...modulus of rupture (psi), modulus of elasticity(per million psi, measured from a simply supported, center loaded beam on a span-depth ratio of 14/1. This figure can be corrected for the effects of shear deflection by increasing by 10 percent.), work to max. load (in.-lb. per cubic inch). Then, Impact bending and height of drop causing complete failure represented in inches (this one is of questionable worth as it involves a hammer wighing 50 pounds being dropped onto a test piece of unspecified size mounted to a test stand of unknown configuration). Next, Compression parallel to grain--maximum crushing strength (psi), Compression perpendicular to grain-- fiber stress at proportional limit (psi), Shear parallel to grain-- maximum shear strength (psi), Tension perpendicular to grain, maximum tensile strength (psi). Last figure is Side hadness, load perpendicular to grain (lbs.)
These values are the results of tests on small, clear, straight-grained specimens, and the results shown reflect tests of seasoned material adjusted to a moisture content of 12 percent unless otherwise noted. The specific Gravity is based on weight ovendry and at volume at indicated or assumed moisture content.
Values not given in the tables due to excessive variation between similar specimens I have indicated as "---".
If a person really wants to make a study of this, it is best to obtain one of the books...without writing one here myself to explain each and every one of the values and how arrived at, I can only present this info. for a rough eyeball comparison.
Here we go...Domestic Hardwoods first
Locust, Black--.69/19,400/2.05/18.4/57/10,180/1,830/2,480/640/17,600
Maple, Bigleaf--.48/10700/1.45/7.8/28/5950/750/1730/540/850
Maple, Red--.54/13400/1.64/12.5/32/6540/1000/1850/---/950
Maple, Sugar--.63/15800/1.83/16.5/39/7830/1470/2330/--/1450
Oak, Red...there are many varieties, I'll list the strongest (Cherrybark) and weakest (Southern Red)
Strongest--.68/18100/2.28/18.3/49/8740/1250/2000/840/1480
Weakest--.59/10900/1.49/9.4/26/6090/870/1390/510/1060
White Oak...I'll go with the three strongest of the 11 given and the weakest.
Live Oak--.88/18400/1.98/18.9/8900/2840/--/--
Swamp White--.72/17700/2.05/19.2/49/8600/1190/2000/830/1620
Generic "White"--.68/15200/1.78/14.8/37/7440/1070/2000/800/1360
Sassafrass--.46/9000/1.12/8.7/---/4760/850/1240/---/---
Next, Domestic Softwoods
Cedars Vary wildly, but I better go ahead and give them all.
Alaskan--.44/11100/1.42/10.4/29/6310/620/1130/360/580
Atlantic White--.32/6800/.93/4.1/13/4700/410/800/220/350
Eastern Red--.47/8800/.88/8.3/22/6020/920/---/---/900
Incense--.37/8000/1.04/5.4/17/5200/590/880/270/470
Port Orford--.43/12700/1.7/9.1/28/6250/720/1370/400/630
Western Red--.32/7500/1.11/5.8/17/4560/460/990/220/350
Douglas Fir (not a true fir, BTW) varies by region grown. The stuff from the Olympic Peninsula is allegedly the tightest-grained. Some of the finer old-growth stuff I've seen is near-indistinguishable from Sitka Spruce in appearance and super-tight (30 pics per inch, plus!) grain, but this is getting very unusual to see in either wood mentioned.
Coastal--.48/12400/1.95/9.9/31/7230/800/1130/340/710
Interior West--.50/12600/1.83/10.6/32/7430/760/1290/350/660
Interior North--.48/13100/1.79/10.5/26/6900/770/1400/390/600
Interior South--.46/11900/1.49/9.0/20/6230/740/1510/330/510
(Cosat Douglas Fir is defined as wood growing in the states of WA and OR west of the summit of the Cascades. Interior West includes CA and all counties of OR and WA east of but adjacent to the Cascade summit. Interior North includes the remainder of OR and WA and the stated of ID, MT, and WY. Interior South is made up of UT, CO, AZ, and NM.)
True Firs
Balsam--.35/9200/1.45/5.1/20/5280/404/944/180/400
California Red--.35/9200/1.45/5.1/20/5280/404/944/180/400
Grand--.37/8900/1.57/7.5/28/5290/500/900/240/360
Noble--.39/10700/1.72/8.8/23/6100/520/1050/220/410
Pacific Silver--.43/11000/1.76/9.3/24/6410/450/1220/---/430
Subalpine--.32/8600/1.29/---/---/4860/390/1070/---/350
White--.39/9800/1.15/7.2/20/5800/530/1100/300/480
Spruces
Black--.42/10800/1.61/10.5/23/5960/550/1230/---/520
Engelmann--.35/9300/1.30/6.4/18/4480/410/1200/350/390
Red--.4/10800/1.61/8.4/25/5540/550/1290/350/490
Sitka--.4/10200/1.57/9.4/25/5610/580/1150/370/510
White--.36/9400/1.43/7.7/20/5180/430/970/360/480
--Woods Commonly Imported to the United States and North America--
These specs are given as:
Moisture Content//Specific Gravity (most given only for green wood. Seasoned woods may run HIGHER, thus since all other values I am giving are seasoned I have indicated this with the addition of a question mark)/Mod. Rupt./Mod. Elast./Work-Max. Load/Compression Parallel-Max Crush./Shear Parallel-Max. Shear/Side Hardness, Load Perpendicular to grain
Balsa--12//.16-?/3140/.49/2.1/2160/300/---
Ipe--12//.92-?/25400/3.14/22/13010/2060/3680
Iroko--12//.54?/12400/1.46/9.0/7590/1800/1260
LignumVitae--12//1.05-?/---/---/---/11400/---/4500
African Mahogany, often referred to as "Ribbon" Mahogany...actually of the Khaya family, not a "True" Mahogany--
12//.42-?/10700/1.40/8.3/6460/1500/830
Honduras Mahogany, the "True" Mahogany, grown many places in South America besides Honduras. Better examples exhibit a nice, almost honeycomb-like, nearly non-directional and very fine grain.
12//.45-?/11500/1.5/7.5/6780/1230/800
"Philipine Mahogany" is actually not a mahogany at all, either, and varies greatly in all regards. Includes members of the Shorea, Lauan and Meranti families. Used by the railcar load in older production boats because it was nearly free. Sometimes almost white in color, sometimes reddish, many different grain figures. Pretty but none too strong (before putting too much stock in the specifications below, remember what the criteria were for samples...now compare that to what you will ever likely see of this wood, especially on a boat!). Much easier to bend into Pearson cockpit coamings, though.
Specs for this stuff, as I mentioned can vary a great deal, but we'll go with two of the listings as a pretty good representative average.
Dark Red--12//.46-?/12700/1.77/13.8/7360/1450/780
Light red--12//.34-?/9500/1.23/8.6/5920/970/460
---I didn't forget this!--
Teak--12//.55-?/14600/1.55/12/8410/1890/1000
---And--
Purpleheart--12//.67-?/19200/2.27/17.6/10320/2220/1860
Brain Hurt? My eyes sure do!
Dave
Here are a bunch of specs for various common woods, hard and soft, used in boatbuilding and repair. Please note that on the Oaks and Maples in particular there are a very large number of specific varieties, and I did not list them all. These specs were taken from 'The Encyclopedia of Wood', by the U.S. Forest Service Laboratory (Published by Sterling Press).
'Understanding Wood' written by R. Bruce Hoadley, PhD. and published by Taunton Press is also an excellent (!) text for anyone serious about working wood and coming to understnd the physical properties of each material and many ways to identify, regard and handle them best.
Both books give excellent insight into the engineering properties of many woods and material...in general, I think Hoadley's book is by far the better of the two, and certainly gives much more in-depth information on many things.
'The Encyclopedia of Wood' also gives much attention to manufactured wood products (parralam, MDF, Ply, etc.). Of the two books, This One has by far the most comprehensive amount of nuts-and-bolts specs like these.
It is well worth the investment to buy both books, I think...but in general unless one NEEDS all this data, Hoadley's 'Understanding Wood' is probably the best of the two by far.
For those who truly want it all, the Forest Service does (or at least did) publish a very complete set of tables covering just about every wood known to man...they were pretty costly, but real impressive. Needed to reinforce a bookshelf to hold 'em and all...
Specs given are all for "Dry" wood. Where given, the exact moisture content will be included, followed by two backslashes. After this, specific gravity. Next come static bending specs...modulus of rupture (psi), modulus of elasticity(per million psi, measured from a simply supported, center loaded beam on a span-depth ratio of 14/1. This figure can be corrected for the effects of shear deflection by increasing by 10 percent.), work to max. load (in.-lb. per cubic inch). Then, Impact bending and height of drop causing complete failure represented in inches (this one is of questionable worth as it involves a hammer wighing 50 pounds being dropped onto a test piece of unspecified size mounted to a test stand of unknown configuration). Next, Compression parallel to grain--maximum crushing strength (psi), Compression perpendicular to grain-- fiber stress at proportional limit (psi), Shear parallel to grain-- maximum shear strength (psi), Tension perpendicular to grain, maximum tensile strength (psi). Last figure is Side hadness, load perpendicular to grain (lbs.)
These values are the results of tests on small, clear, straight-grained specimens, and the results shown reflect tests of seasoned material adjusted to a moisture content of 12 percent unless otherwise noted. The specific Gravity is based on weight ovendry and at volume at indicated or assumed moisture content.
Values not given in the tables due to excessive variation between similar specimens I have indicated as "---".
If a person really wants to make a study of this, it is best to obtain one of the books...without writing one here myself to explain each and every one of the values and how arrived at, I can only present this info. for a rough eyeball comparison.
Here we go...Domestic Hardwoods first
Locust, Black--.69/19,400/2.05/18.4/57/10,180/1,830/2,480/640/17,600
Maple, Bigleaf--.48/10700/1.45/7.8/28/5950/750/1730/540/850
Maple, Red--.54/13400/1.64/12.5/32/6540/1000/1850/---/950
Maple, Sugar--.63/15800/1.83/16.5/39/7830/1470/2330/--/1450
Oak, Red...there are many varieties, I'll list the strongest (Cherrybark) and weakest (Southern Red)
Strongest--.68/18100/2.28/18.3/49/8740/1250/2000/840/1480
Weakest--.59/10900/1.49/9.4/26/6090/870/1390/510/1060
White Oak...I'll go with the three strongest of the 11 given and the weakest.
Live Oak--.88/18400/1.98/18.9/8900/2840/--/--
Swamp White--.72/17700/2.05/19.2/49/8600/1190/2000/830/1620
Generic "White"--.68/15200/1.78/14.8/37/7440/1070/2000/800/1360
Sassafrass--.46/9000/1.12/8.7/---/4760/850/1240/---/---
Next, Domestic Softwoods
Cedars Vary wildly, but I better go ahead and give them all.
Alaskan--.44/11100/1.42/10.4/29/6310/620/1130/360/580
Atlantic White--.32/6800/.93/4.1/13/4700/410/800/220/350
Eastern Red--.47/8800/.88/8.3/22/6020/920/---/---/900
Incense--.37/8000/1.04/5.4/17/5200/590/880/270/470
Port Orford--.43/12700/1.7/9.1/28/6250/720/1370/400/630
Western Red--.32/7500/1.11/5.8/17/4560/460/990/220/350
Douglas Fir (not a true fir, BTW) varies by region grown. The stuff from the Olympic Peninsula is allegedly the tightest-grained. Some of the finer old-growth stuff I've seen is near-indistinguishable from Sitka Spruce in appearance and super-tight (30 pics per inch, plus!) grain, but this is getting very unusual to see in either wood mentioned.
Coastal--.48/12400/1.95/9.9/31/7230/800/1130/340/710
Interior West--.50/12600/1.83/10.6/32/7430/760/1290/350/660
Interior North--.48/13100/1.79/10.5/26/6900/770/1400/390/600
Interior South--.46/11900/1.49/9.0/20/6230/740/1510/330/510
(Cosat Douglas Fir is defined as wood growing in the states of WA and OR west of the summit of the Cascades. Interior West includes CA and all counties of OR and WA east of but adjacent to the Cascade summit. Interior North includes the remainder of OR and WA and the stated of ID, MT, and WY. Interior South is made up of UT, CO, AZ, and NM.)
True Firs
Balsam--.35/9200/1.45/5.1/20/5280/404/944/180/400
California Red--.35/9200/1.45/5.1/20/5280/404/944/180/400
Grand--.37/8900/1.57/7.5/28/5290/500/900/240/360
Noble--.39/10700/1.72/8.8/23/6100/520/1050/220/410
Pacific Silver--.43/11000/1.76/9.3/24/6410/450/1220/---/430
Subalpine--.32/8600/1.29/---/---/4860/390/1070/---/350
White--.39/9800/1.15/7.2/20/5800/530/1100/300/480
Spruces
Black--.42/10800/1.61/10.5/23/5960/550/1230/---/520
Engelmann--.35/9300/1.30/6.4/18/4480/410/1200/350/390
Red--.4/10800/1.61/8.4/25/5540/550/1290/350/490
Sitka--.4/10200/1.57/9.4/25/5610/580/1150/370/510
White--.36/9400/1.43/7.7/20/5180/430/970/360/480
--Woods Commonly Imported to the United States and North America--
These specs are given as:
Moisture Content//Specific Gravity (most given only for green wood. Seasoned woods may run HIGHER, thus since all other values I am giving are seasoned I have indicated this with the addition of a question mark)/Mod. Rupt./Mod. Elast./Work-Max. Load/Compression Parallel-Max Crush./Shear Parallel-Max. Shear/Side Hardness, Load Perpendicular to grain
Balsa--12//.16-?/3140/.49/2.1/2160/300/---
Ipe--12//.92-?/25400/3.14/22/13010/2060/3680
Iroko--12//.54?/12400/1.46/9.0/7590/1800/1260
LignumVitae--12//1.05-?/---/---/---/11400/---/4500
African Mahogany, often referred to as "Ribbon" Mahogany...actually of the Khaya family, not a "True" Mahogany--
12//.42-?/10700/1.40/8.3/6460/1500/830
Honduras Mahogany, the "True" Mahogany, grown many places in South America besides Honduras. Better examples exhibit a nice, almost honeycomb-like, nearly non-directional and very fine grain.
12//.45-?/11500/1.5/7.5/6780/1230/800
"Philipine Mahogany" is actually not a mahogany at all, either, and varies greatly in all regards. Includes members of the Shorea, Lauan and Meranti families. Used by the railcar load in older production boats because it was nearly free. Sometimes almost white in color, sometimes reddish, many different grain figures. Pretty but none too strong (before putting too much stock in the specifications below, remember what the criteria were for samples...now compare that to what you will ever likely see of this wood, especially on a boat!). Much easier to bend into Pearson cockpit coamings, though.
Specs for this stuff, as I mentioned can vary a great deal, but we'll go with two of the listings as a pretty good representative average.
Dark Red--12//.46-?/12700/1.77/13.8/7360/1450/780
Light red--12//.34-?/9500/1.23/8.6/5920/970/460
---I didn't forget this!--
Teak--12//.55-?/14600/1.55/12/8410/1890/1000
---And--
Purpleheart--12//.67-?/19200/2.27/17.6/10320/2220/1860
Brain Hurt? My eyes sure do!
Dave
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Dave, 397
Well, I mainly wanted to illustrate that "oak" isn't necessarily just "oak"...same with firs, cedars, spruces, mahoganies, etc. I always sort of cringe and ask myself when I hear the build specs for wood boats "what kind of----?".
Some of it's pretty useful too, just that someone will have to make themselves a little chatr on notebook paper and transfer the numbers. I wish it could've been easier, but I just couldn't see a good way to do it. For that matter, I could type my fingers off just going into the differences verbally just between oaks...so this is what there is. Sorry...
Dave
Some of it's pretty useful too, just that someone will have to make themselves a little chatr on notebook paper and transfer the numbers. I wish it could've been easier, but I just couldn't see a good way to do it. For that matter, I could type my fingers off just going into the differences verbally just between oaks...so this is what there is. Sorry...
Dave
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Mark W, Elite 32, MA
Elm ???
I have an Elm finish on the interior of Impeckable and I must say it's real nice
you get some sense of it in the pics here : Wilme.net > Sailing
Mark
http://www.wilme.net/sailing/index.php
you get some sense of it in the pics here : Wilme.net > Sailing
Mark
http://www.wilme.net/sailing/index.php