Quick background: Those on the yahoo list saw BantryBay's offer of a free engine.... I'm the lucky fella. Truly a godsend to a guy swimming in debt. (Kevin, if you read this board, THANKS AGAIN.) I'm going to go assist in the removal in a few weeks. Engine swaps are old-hat for me, but I would like to pick the collective brains for some triton-specific input.
This is an eastcoast boat. Number 300-something, if I remember the conversation correctly.
Removal of the copper monster is part of the deal. This little voice in the back of my mind says I should try to get it out unharmed, but I figure there's gotta be a reason why you took the sawzall to yours, Tim.
I've read your Glissando writeup of your removal, and the NTA MIR. The MIR paints a picture of the rear mounting bolts being a rather difficult hurdle. Your writeup seems to suggest that this was not the case.... did you just get lucky? In the photos I noticed that your galley and icebox had already been removed (ya big cheater!).
Are the bolts nutted underneath, or are they threaded into the mounting flange somehow?
The goal is to get this done in one afternoon without disturbing any of the casework. Any and all thoughts are appreciated.
A4 removal
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
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- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
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Engine Removal
The rear engine mounting bolts, in both of the engine removals (#381 and #100), were difficult to remove. The curvature of the hull in that area is such that clearance is a major issue, and it's tough to get a wrench beneath. (Not to mention even worse because of the nasty accumulation of grime, grease, oil, and crapola in each case.)
In #381's case, the aft bolts were actually loose, but the nuts were well seized on the studs. Therefore, no attempt to loosen them was successful, and with great difficulty I managed to cut them off. Getting a large cutting tool in there is also tough, of course. This was only possible because I had all the surrounding cabinetry removed. I'd hate to try doing any cutting or serious wrench work without at least the galley module removed. But you might get lucky. I would certainly try it first, before going to any further extent. If unsuccessful, then I guess you do what you have to.
In both cases, the forward mounting bolts were no trouble at all.
Oh, in my case (#381), the nuts on the mounting bolts were some silly square-type things that made getting a wrench on them even more difficult. The aft bolts were very much of a pain.
On #100, there were spacers between the engine flange and the foundation, so cutting all the bolts was a cinch.
Copper Exhaust
In #381's case, it never occurred to me to save the exhaust. This was early on in my ownership (a month), and who knew that anyone would willingly install a 40 year-old, noisy, sputtery and inefficient exhaust system back into their boat. I certainly had no intention of reusing it myself, as I believe a waterlift is a superior exhaust.
Knowing later that the opposite is true (that is, people want these things), I saved the copper exhaust from #100 intact. Getting it out in one piece was a trick. Again, all the surrounding cabinetry was already removed, which certainly made things easier. The toughest part of the exhaust system is the high loop at the after end. It takes some serious twisting to get that to pass through the very narrow and tight opening between the lazarette and the port cockpit locker. The problem arises because twisting the whole exhaust pipe in a direction that turns the loop roughly horizontal also causes the bent forward section to rotate upwards, thereby contacting the cockpit, bulkheads, and every other possible thing in the process. There is much shuffling, swearing, and fighting involved, at a minimum.
Once this is done, the whole thing slids out relatively easily through the engine compartment (I think). I know Jeff (Kaynee) had his out and back in, but his cabinetry was all removed. I don't know if it's possible otherwise, though you will surely find out!
It will certainly be difficult and frustrating, I think. It was difficult and frustrating in junk boats with no surrounding cabinetry and no cares or worries about the engine, fiberglass, interior, or what have you.
Now, none of this means you won't be successful, or have a completely different experience. Only time will tell, and I hope it is easier for you. But these are some of the potential issues involved. Knowing them beforehand might allow you to formulate a plan that works.
The rear engine mounting bolts, in both of the engine removals (#381 and #100), were difficult to remove. The curvature of the hull in that area is such that clearance is a major issue, and it's tough to get a wrench beneath. (Not to mention even worse because of the nasty accumulation of grime, grease, oil, and crapola in each case.)
In #381's case, the aft bolts were actually loose, but the nuts were well seized on the studs. Therefore, no attempt to loosen them was successful, and with great difficulty I managed to cut them off. Getting a large cutting tool in there is also tough, of course. This was only possible because I had all the surrounding cabinetry removed. I'd hate to try doing any cutting or serious wrench work without at least the galley module removed. But you might get lucky. I would certainly try it first, before going to any further extent. If unsuccessful, then I guess you do what you have to.
In both cases, the forward mounting bolts were no trouble at all.
Oh, in my case (#381), the nuts on the mounting bolts were some silly square-type things that made getting a wrench on them even more difficult. The aft bolts were very much of a pain.
On #100, there were spacers between the engine flange and the foundation, so cutting all the bolts was a cinch.
Copper Exhaust
In #381's case, it never occurred to me to save the exhaust. This was early on in my ownership (a month), and who knew that anyone would willingly install a 40 year-old, noisy, sputtery and inefficient exhaust system back into their boat. I certainly had no intention of reusing it myself, as I believe a waterlift is a superior exhaust.
Knowing later that the opposite is true (that is, people want these things), I saved the copper exhaust from #100 intact. Getting it out in one piece was a trick. Again, all the surrounding cabinetry was already removed, which certainly made things easier. The toughest part of the exhaust system is the high loop at the after end. It takes some serious twisting to get that to pass through the very narrow and tight opening between the lazarette and the port cockpit locker. The problem arises because twisting the whole exhaust pipe in a direction that turns the loop roughly horizontal also causes the bent forward section to rotate upwards, thereby contacting the cockpit, bulkheads, and every other possible thing in the process. There is much shuffling, swearing, and fighting involved, at a minimum.
Once this is done, the whole thing slids out relatively easily through the engine compartment (I think). I know Jeff (Kaynee) had his out and back in, but his cabinetry was all removed. I don't know if it's possible otherwise, though you will surely find out!
It will certainly be difficult and frustrating, I think. It was difficult and frustrating in junk boats with no surrounding cabinetry and no cares or worries about the engine, fiberglass, interior, or what have you.
Now, none of this means you won't be successful, or have a completely different experience. Only time will tell, and I hope it is easier for you. But these are some of the potential issues involved. Knowing them beforehand might allow you to formulate a plan that works.
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Figment
- Damned Because It's All Connected
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- Boat Name: Triton
- Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
- Location: L.I. Sound
Caution: wacky idea to follow with very little actual thought in support.
Tim, in retrospect, would it have been easier to just sawzall through the fiberglass "beds"?
Obviously, I'm going to need to bounce that one off the current owner, but he says he's going the outboard route and has no plans to reinstall inboard.....
Tim, in retrospect, would it have been easier to just sawzall through the fiberglass "beds"?
Obviously, I'm going to need to bounce that one off the current owner, but he says he's going the outboard route and has no plans to reinstall inboard.....
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Yes...and no.Figment wrote:...would it have been easier to just sawzall through the fiberglass "beds"?
This is worth a try, if you can, but the beds tend to be tabbed in with about 3/8" of sloppy, resin-rich mat (which, coupled with the 1/4" +/- thickness of the beds means some serious fiberglass) that cuts quite hard. Also, the curvature of the hull will again be a pain here.
Plus, with the engine in the way, as well as the tight quarters in the existing engine room...well, you get the idea. It's worth mulling, and possibly would be easier. But it's not necessarily as simple as all that either.
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Dave, 397
I'll second Tim on that--
Cutting thru those beds really sucked!
Personally I would make good use of a 4-1/2" grinder with a thin cutoff disc...save time at the coupling by hacking thru the shaft. Butch the copper monster just aft the manifold flange. Good use of the hose cutters and aviation snips on anything else connecting anything to anything. Also, whack thru the copper monster just ahead of the bend where it goes thru the aft bulkhead to aid removal after engine is out. Have fun on those mount bolts! If you have good air handy and a good die grinder, a carbide burr might help get things loose if anyone can reach.
Triton is the easiest A4 removal I've ever done. Nick and I are taking the A-bomb out of 549 on Friday. My personal best record stands at 1:05, I'm going for 45 minutes this time!
Good luck to both of us! <G>
Dave
Cutting thru those beds really sucked!
Personally I would make good use of a 4-1/2" grinder with a thin cutoff disc...save time at the coupling by hacking thru the shaft. Butch the copper monster just aft the manifold flange. Good use of the hose cutters and aviation snips on anything else connecting anything to anything. Also, whack thru the copper monster just ahead of the bend where it goes thru the aft bulkhead to aid removal after engine is out. Have fun on those mount bolts! If you have good air handy and a good die grinder, a carbide burr might help get things loose if anyone can reach.
Triton is the easiest A4 removal I've ever done. Nick and I are taking the A-bomb out of 549 on Friday. My personal best record stands at 1:05, I'm going for 45 minutes this time!
Good luck to both of us! <G>
Dave