False Keel Damage

Ask a question...get an answer (or two).
Post Reply
jhenson

False Keel Damage

Post by jhenson »

I have had my Triton since August of last year. When the boat arrived at my house, I was aware that there was water draining from the joint between the false keel and the ballast. During bottom stripping, I was sanding with an obital sander when I noticed that a single layer of fiberglass tape was seperating from the hull-to-false keel and ballast-to- false keel joints. I decided that the tape had to go, and after removal, the forward section of the starboard false keel side peeled back from the hull. I have attached a photo that isn't the best, but hopefully will give everyone the idea.

Image
I not sure why the boat was damaged this way, but I presume from some of the posts on this forum that it occured on a lift. I should also mention that I have a small lateral crack on the very bottom of the false keel about 1/2" aft of (and parallel to) the back of the lead ballast section that also was dripping water. There is evidence that the bottom of the false keel was built up with several layers of cloth. It actually is about 1/2" lower that the ballast.

After a couple of days, I decided to chop out the form foam inside so that I could have a look at the keel bolts. They appear to have some corrosion (pink color), but in my uneducated opinion are far from failing.

There are a couple of things that are concerning me about moving forward:

1. The keel bolts holes in the bottom of the false keel are about twice the diameter of bolts themselves, and have been allowing water to enter this cavity since the bedding compound beneath has been compromised.

Image

2. The bottom of the false keel is only about 1/2" thick making it necessary for an outside repair to adhere to the ballast itself. Obviously, this is less than ideal.

3. I need to fix the crack on the bottom of false keel area, and replace the open cell foam in this area with a more bouyant foam. It would also be nice to find a way to seal off the area without having to expose keel bolts, drop the keel, and rebed. I have seen no evidence that the keel bolts in the bilge were leaking when the boat was in the water.

I guess my current line of thinking for the repair is as follows:

1. Poor thickened epoxy around the base of the two keel bolts.

2. Poor thickened epoxy on the bottom inside to repair the crack behind the ballast

3. Cut an access hole in the port side of the false keel large enough for me to get my hand inside.

4. Work a filet with layers of cloth along the bottom inside of the false keel.

5. Bevel and repair the upper section of the hole from the outside.

6. Fill the cavity through the port side cut-out with foam.

7. Repair the hole or holes cut in the port side.

I would certainly appreciate opinions about this. This will be one of the first things I would like to tackle when the weather warms this spring. If these pictures don't appear you can find them on a temporary web site have have constructed along with other pictures of the boat at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jrhensonjr.

Thanks,

Joe Henson
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

First of all, thank you for those interesting and instructive photos. That's the first time I've seen the inside of the false keel cavity, and how the keel bolts are set up in that area. I wish I could come to VA to see it firsthand.

For the benefit of all Triton owners, current and future, I would like to request that you take as many photos of this area as possible, as it's not often that one has a chance to see exactly how a portion of their boat is built. It's certainly easy to see how and why water gets into that cavity, and is also a little startling to see exactly how minimal the false keel construction truly is.

Now, that said, on to the problem.
jhenson wrote:The keel bolts holes in the bottom of the false keel are about twice the diameter of bolts themselves, and have been allowing water to enter this cavity since the bedding compound beneath has been compromised.
It's not quite clear to me where you are talking about. Is this where the bolts pass through the fiberglass hull and up to the bilge, or where they enter the ballast keel? Or is there a third option? (Hint: there is. I figured it out later on in this post, so you can sort of ignore this...)
jhenson wrote:After a couple of days, I decided to chop out the form foam inside so that I could have a look at the keel bolts. They appear to have some corrosion (pink color), but in my uneducated opinion are far from failing.
From what I can tell, those bolts look to be full-diameter and in good shape. Some pinkish hue would be typical, particularly where the bolts have been inbedded in water-saturated grossness. I can't really say "AOK" from looking only at this photo, but my gut feeling is that there is nothing to worry about, bolt-wise.
jhenson wrote:I guess my current line of thinking for the repair is as follows:

1. Poor thickened epoxy around the base of the two keel bolts.

2. Poor thickened epoxy on the bottom inside to repair the crack behind the ballast

3. Cut an access hole in the port side of the false keel large enough for me to get my hand inside.

4. Work a filet with layers of cloth along the bottom inside of the false keel.

5. Bevel and repair the upper section of the hole from the outside.

6. Fill the cavity through the port side cut-out with foam.

7. Repair the hole or holes cut in the port side.
One of the reasons Pearson initially used the false keel was because the deepness and narrowness of the keel deadwood, as designed, was such that it could not be effectively laminated from inside. I think you may run into some difficulty trying to get fiberglass properly secured inside the narrow bottom of the cavity, but other than that, it would be a sound way to repair the area.

I agree that you want to minimize how much you might rely on fiberglass sticking to the lead ballast. That said, you can still wrap fiberglass around the bulk of the false keel from outside, perhaps in addition to your inner repair. The benefit of the external reinforcement is that it would end up, well, reinforcing the exterior (duh) better against future mis-blocking or lifting situations.

Given the nature of the keel's current condition, you'll have to glass over part of the ballast in order to resecure that starboard side. When you do this, I recommend wrapping glass around the entire bottom of the keel and up the other side in that area, if you can. I see that your blocking may be in the way, so you might not be able to do this. In any event, for best adhesion I would say you should grind the lead with coarse paper immediately before you begin fiberglassing. You want clean, bright, rough metal. Then, I'd apply a coat of unthickened epoxy and let it cure till just tacky, and then install your fiberglass.

Since you need to replace the foam inside the keel, another repair option would be to basically remove that entire starboard flap. Leave the port side in place as a form, and use it to secure your new foam material inside. After shaping the foam on the starboard side, you could simply laminate new fiberglass over the whole area, essentially recreating the old false keel in place.

The false keel needs to be fairly strong since it supports the lower rudder gudgeon, but it doesn't have to be ridiculous, either. I can almost guarantee that any repairs will end up being stronger than the original section, which obviously was junk and causes problems in nearly every boat so equipped.

My "Eureka" moment:

Actually, I was just looking at the photos again and suddenly got a better idea of the situation at hand. What you're proposing when you talk of glassing inside the keel is for the forward section, at the top of the ballast pig, as seen in the second photo. OK...now your idea makes more sense, despite my prattling above. Filling the recesses at the bottom end of the keelbolts is a good idea because even though the existing openings don't go anywhere, any water that did get in there might pool around the bolt itself and could accelerate corrosive action.

I know this is a rambling post, but hopefully it's of some help, at least, if you could follow my stream of consciousness. Since I sort of went back and forth, let me know what I can clarify...
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
jhenson
Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:59 am
Location: Marshall, Virginia

False Keel Damage

Post by jhenson »

It really is amazing that this addition to the keel is as fragile as it is considering the legendary toughness of the Triton hull. Eveything that is engineered by humans has a weekness somewhere, I guess When I began pulling thru-hulls, I confirmed what I understood to be the hull thickness.

However:

-The thickness of the false keel side is only about 3/16" in most places.

-The form foam inside the cavity is so porous that it offers no structural value and very little floatation.

-The aft bolt is about 1/2" bronze while the forward bolt is about 3/4" bronze. Both keel bolt holes were drilled into the cavity with at least 1 1/4" drill bit. My guess is that the factory did so to keep from having the keel snag in these holes as it was affixed to the hull. Having overside holes gives few problems when the keel runs aground in the longitudnal axis. But, a sideward force on the keel could move it. My ballast actually is of center to starboard by about 1/8".

-this cavity can hold a lot of water! I'm guessing somewhere around 30-50 gallons (at roughly 7 lbs/gal), but it could be more. Its hard to say with the foam inside. That's not a problem with neutral boyancy in the water, but when you lift the boat, that's bound to put stress on these somewhat flimsy joints. Add a sling to the underside, and you got a recipe for a major repair.

I guess that's why there are many hulls that need some attention to this area. I just happened to have one of the worst so far. It will be a somewhat daunting repair for me, but I look at as a challenge.

Joe
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

I'd enjoy hearing about your progress once you dive in. It'll be a big project, but a great learning experience. As a semi-structural piece, the false keel is a good place to hone your techniques.
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Post Reply