Plastic Classic Forum

Laid up in 1970, she's a "liner" model with the integral aluminum strongback. Basically a stock boat, some work/modding has been done on her.

Repowered with a Volvo 2002 that has the addon fresh-water cooling (as opposed to raw water that was 'standard'). Chainplates have been moved externally, but using what I feel to be insufficiently sized hardware (dinghy/daysailor size!); plate material around 5/32" thick, and using bolts of about #10 or so. Zoiks!

Plans:

Galley: (Oct, '18: probably not exactly like this, I now have what I think is a better idea... stay tuned! ;) ) Moving it from normal position at companionway to just aft of main bulkhead. 2 burner propane stove/oven and wood burning heating stove to starboard. Engel reefer and sink moved to port, will share thru-hull with head (2 less holes in boat this way). Settee berths will be extended aft a short distance (6-12" ish) into cockpit locker space to keep them 'berthable'.

Head: Improving it. Adding shower, composting toilet. Pics below.

Other Interior mods: Install integral water tanks under cabin sole and perhaps elsewhere. Would like to get tankage up to at least 70-80 gallons. Improve access to v-berth stowage, create/improve stowage in unused areas of salon and cockpit lockers.

Deck: Decks are overall in good shape and seem solid/dry. Will be checking out thoroughly, however, and fixing if/as needed. (Oct, '18: found a bad area at, where else, a stanchion base. Right now, I think that's the extent of it. Time will tell...) Add 2 anchor roller to bow, and manual windlass. Adding solar, and a Monitor vane on transom.

Mast: Mast has original wooden spreaders w/LED lights added (white, shining down); plan to change these to AL spreaders, and lights to white shining *up* on head of sail(s), and red shining down towards deck. Installing mast steps, both folding and stirrup style (stirrups at spreader and masthead position only, folders elsewhere). Add roller furler on forestay. Use synthetic line in rig. Add inner forestay and running backs for small storm jib.

Here's my big outside glassing project, really the only major thing that was wrong with Sundance when I bought her: a rotted cockpit sole. It had a rubbery mat glued down on top of, well, this mess you see here, except there was also a skin of glass there covering up some balsa mush and these mystery-material blobs which someone somehow thought might fix the issue (go figure... ). As you can guess, she leaks very nicely here due to this issue.

I've been at a bit of an impasse about how to approach this, let me know of any improvements or ideas you can add to the below, my current best idea:

Pattern the sole using foam board, shaped how I want it with a camber and such, then pre-glassed on both sides before insertion, as well as putting some strengthening members on the bottom side.
Cut old sole out, insert new. I'll have to figure out how to handle the rudder post once I get into that; likely it will involve some piecing.
Once in place I'd then run a filet and glass tape around the edges to bond it all together.
There would be some glassing/bonding needed done from under/from inside the cockpit hatches as well.
I can also use the opportunity while the sole is out to:
1) remove the ~20 gallon under cockpit metal fuel tank which is probably circa 1971, and...
2) get rid of the forward cockpit scuppers, shaping the sole to drain quickly and thoroughly, aft and straight overboard through (larger) drain holes above the waterline at the counter.*

*(Note: On the A-30, the deck drains into a tube which connects to the cockpit scuppers belowdecks next to the engine prior to exiting the boat. It is a plumbing nightmare, with 2 90* elbow joints on each side, like a dozen SST ring clamps, various small hoses, etc etc. I'm totally unsatisfied with the arrangement, and am working on that, see next post... I imagine it was designed this way so that you could catch rainwater, but I have a better idea to implement that doesn't involve so much hardware and tubing connected to below the waterline, and thus possible boat-sinking leaks...)

Here's my quick-n-dirty, work-in-progress to bypass the current (and I think original) deck drains/cockpit scuppers confusion and plumbing nightmare. I'll have to get a shot of that to post in here so you can see just how bad it is.

Due mostly to multiple inline elbow joints, it is next to impossible to snake out the drains, and small organic matter from the river I am on seems to delight in finding its way up into that plumbing somehow. This causes the plethora of 90* fittings and small tubing that make up this "system" to constantly block up and this in turn causes water which otherwise should be draining, to instead be forced back up into the cockpit.
Once there, it leaks thru the damaged sole into the interior of the boat.

Basically what I've done is made an 'escape' hole above the deck drains for rain water, temporarily covering the drains so that water on deck is sent overboard instead of into the belowdeck plumbing.

When I get the cockpit sole replaced, I'll put a valve on the bottom of the deck drains so that they can still be used to harvest rainwater, but they will be closed off otherwise, sending deck water straight overboard. Simply stuffing a plug into the 'escape' hole and opening the belowdeck drain (after the decks have been rinsed well) will allow for rainwater catchment. Simpler, less likely to sink the boat, and the cockpit will drain faster after being improved.

I made the hole through the toerail sized to fit the small plastic tubing, inserted it and glassed around it to seal it up.
What you see in the last picture, the material used to set in the tubing, is epoxy-saturated toilet paper.
This works well as a base material for small diameter/tight curves, and it will be getting some proper glass over it for strength before being declared finished.
I've completed just enough with this to divert rain overboard, and it is not going to be finished until I get the cockpit sole done. I may enlarge the 'escape' holes somewhat at that point, although they do well as now sized. It has already made a big difference in how much and often I have to pump out the bilge.

My boat also has a raised gunnel. The builder placed two slots on each side through the fiberglassed wall at deck level for drains. While it does a good job of removing water it has a tendency to stain the hull below each slot. I wonder if that is why your builder opted for the plumbing? Sometimes I look at what some manufacturers did and I go huh... Some of them built hundreds of boats and yet their engineering just does not make sense. I suppose they had a reason for everything. Maybe it was just the easiest way out. At any rate looks like your on top of it. Curious to see pics of your repairs on the cockpit deck. Is your rudder hung off the keel, a skeg, or a spade type? Seems like a spade rudder would need some serious re-enforcement in the deck area. Looking forward to seeing your next installment.

Started in on the cockpit floor job yesterday , beginning with dissection. Ye gads, sodden balsa is some *heavy* stuff. And man will it bog down a saw blade. Between a circular saw and an oscillating tool, I got the old mess out and am at a point of "(how to) make it (better)".

One thing is the rudder post. On the early A-30's apparently they just made a long tube that came well above the waterline, in order to keep water from ingressing there. On these later models, they went (incorrectly, IMO) to a shorter tube which is below the waterline and thus needs a packing gland to keep water where it belongs - outside of the boat. Alberg's of the "Triton type" seem to want to 'squat' easily, and this puts the rudder post shaft even further under water.
So I put about 250#'s of chain and anchor on the foredeck yesterday to get her back on her lines, but it is still weeping a bit. I think I may try to remove the old gland, and put a pipe in over the shaft to extend it up above the waterline.
Thoughts? Experiences?

My original plan was to glass in a new sole made of foam sandwich, but after removing the old I am left with a nice and fairly even lip around the cockpit circumference, so I think I am going to make the sole removable in some manner. It only makes sense to do so, as the area, while not needing regular access, nonetheless does require a human in there from time to time, and as I think it is likely that the boat will be around until long after me, I may as well make it easier for the 'later humans', when they need to get in there. SO now to figure out what/how to use for a gasket to seal the area off from water, which will determine to no small degree how I make the rest of the sole.
So again - anyone have any thoughts or experiences to input?

I'm taking quite a few pictures but don't have time to put them all up yet. Here's what the cockpit sans sole looks like though.

rescuesailor02 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:02 am Sometimes I look at what some manufacturers did and I go huh...

I think maybe we all do this.

It's a keel-hung rudder, the cockpit doesn't really support it, although the fitting thru which it goes I guess does help keep everything lined up.

While I've got it opened up, I will probably also pull that fuel tank for cleaning and inspection. Perhaps even go to a different solution, as it seems to be aluminum and must be OEM from '71; I doubt it has a whole lot of years left in it...

And make the whole space more of a "tub" in order to help prevent the possibility of downflooding.

I haven't done it yet myself on an A30 but think I'd much prefer to have that rudder shaft tube extend to the footwell to prevent the leaks they commonly have there.

It would be handy to have access by building a drainage channel and raised flange as found on Westsail 32 and many other boats. The problem is getting a good level flange with gasket and bolts/latches that don't leak. Even a small drip can be a problem if the scuppers plug up during storage. I guess it depends how much you value access over a more simple watertight sealed floor.

James I was thinking of Yet Another Way to do it, and had an Idea.

1) Make the edges come up 3-4" on the sides and aft edge, creating a shallow 3-sided 'tub' of sorts, so that water would have to be that deep before it could even begin to stand long enough to try and get down through & past any gaskets.
2) The nut/bolts/fasteners could be up off the sole a ways as well, near the top of the edge, so standing water on them will not be an issue.
3) Put enough slope on the sole to hurry water off of it and to the drains, and...?

Right now, as cut, I have a 6" 'lip' at the front edge for sealing, which should make it pretty easy to put something like a wide piece of neoprene there as a gasket. That would be the 'open' end. Eventually, if I leave the existing drains there, I'll need to make them bigger, for sure. And run straight out.

Thoughts?

Not sure I'm picturing what you describe correctly but you may want to consider the effects of raising the footwell and reducing headroom when standing under the boom or bimini. Even with a typical opening hatch you'll be raising the footwell an inch or so.

Well, it helps that at 5'8" or so I'm not real tall.

I put a bimini on for a test fit, and have found that when combined with the dodger, cockpit ingress/egress is a real pain due to the bimini frame. So I figured I need to make up a test bom gallows which would allow me to rig a cockpit shade from there to the after edge of the bimini. Seen one done like this? My only reference is a video of a couple on a Dana 24 who sailed PNW to SoPac and back via Hawaii and the northern route) and said the config worked great.

I've got a better word than 'tub' to describe my idea: tray. Think of a tray that has only 3 edges of 3-4" height, the 4th 'open' edge will be right by the drains. The fasteners to hold the tray down and in place, will be on the edges of the tray fastening to/thru the cockpit footwell 'walls'. This should raise them enough that standing water getting into the boat there due to them will not be a concern, I dont think - or at least lessened when compared to a flat-lid style.

Waiting for this (hopefully last) cold spell to break to get back on the project, and the time has been good to ponder alternatives.

I do much prefer the idea of a sealed sole. Keeping ocean/water out is always the better alternative. It's easier, and KISS. And keeps your head lower.

Probably the most common issue with small diesel auxiliaries is that of organisms growing in the fuel tanks, the black slime that loves to clog filters and injectors. I think that a smaller tank than the commonly 15, 20 or more gallon tank would have less surface area for condensation to form on the inside, and the fuel would be used and 'replaced' quicker. With burn rates of .25-.5 gallon/hour, a 5-7 gallon tank is more than sufficient for a typical days usage, even if motoring the entire time.

So - cut down the tank, make it a manageable ~5-7 gallon size, removable from inside the quarterberth/cockpit locker area, sliding in from the side. Much better than the permanenet-and-cannot-access original design.
Bulkhead it off from the area under the sole aft of it. Put in a proper rudder tube, and seal that area also with access from the side for monitoring, maintenance, or even stowage area for light items, plastic trash, or off-season clothing/bedding, maybe 100 packets of Ramen noodles. Sealed well enough, it could contribute to positive flotation. Maybe even be used as a "Use First" water bladder for an extended voyage.

Well, coffee's done, time to go push around the 1's and 0's for the day...