What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post photos and descriptions of your ongoing projects here. No project is too big or too small.
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Well jeez, you're just full of questions, aintcha?
Rachel wrote:Were there floors in there too? Or is the sole self-supporting (or whatever you would call it if just spanned from side to side, basically sitting on the edges)? What held it down?
1. Yes, there were a few floors - surprisingly rough-cut and sloppily fitted. Basically just hunks of oak timber cut with angles on the ends. Only a few, though - no wonder certain sections of the sole felt a little bouncy/spongy!

2. You can see in the photos the remnants of the fiberglass/resin lip that ran all the way around the perimeter. That's what held the "subfloor" down. What I'm calling the "subfloor" (since that's what it would be if it were in a house) was 3/4" (maybe even slightly thicker) marine plywood. It was screwed down to the oak floor timbers, which were not attached to the hull, as far as I could tell - they were just sitting on the hull surface. There was a continuous glass/resin "tab" all the way around that went up over the edge of the plywood subfloor, with a little gutter or trough all the way around. I think the idea was that if any water got in (which it did, through leaking deck fittings and portlights), it couldn't soak into the edge grain of the plywood and would instead be directed aft to the main bilge under the engine.

On top of that "subfloor" was the visible sole - which was 1/4" plywood with that "teak and holly" design on its face. That was glued down to the subfloor - and I mean really, really glued - there was absolutely no way you were going to just lift that 1/4" surface layer and put down a new one - I thought about it, but then realized that just wasn't happening. The 1/4" surface plywood overlapped and hid the fiberglass/resin lip that held down the "subfloor."

Problem with that design was that any time water did get in there, it trapped the water under the overlap - between the underside of the 1/4" surface plywood and the fiberglass gutter. This was most evident in the aft-most portion of the sole, which you can see in the first photo - it was all soaking wet and rotten. I was able to just pick it apart with my fingers. It probably wouldn't have been a problem if every owner for the past 42 years had made sure to re-bed the deck hardware at the first sign of a leak, but there are a couple leaks that obviously have been ongoing for years.
Rachel wrote:Are you going to re-finish it or build new? If new.... what kind of wood, etc.?
Well, being that (1) it was really beat up and pretty much shot and (2) it came out in about 942 pieces (not sure if you can see the reciprocating saw and angle grinder in the photos - those were my removal tools), I'm pretty sure refinishing is out of the question. Most of the chunks now reside in my trash can. There was no way it was coming out as one piece - it took it out by cutting it into chunks as I want along - started at the rear, by the engine box and worked my way forward. It took several hours and my back is now killing me. As Danny Glover said over and over in the Lethal Weapons movies: "I'm getting too old for this <stuff>."

I'm going to build new. I've got it all planned out in my fevered little brain.

I saw this Herreshoff H28 for sale on eBay - I really, really liked the look of the interior:

Image

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One thing I really like is the clean simplicity of that plank floor. I see several positive aspects of making a floor that way, most notably the fact that it eliminates the need to try to fit a whole sheet of plywood around the entire perimeter simultaneously - which reduces complexity and physical difficulty tremendously. Instead of making some kind of template, cutting a sheet of plywood to the template, and then trying to wrestle the cut sheet through the companionway and set it in place (where would you stand??), installing a single board at a time will be far, far simpler and easier. Plus it's a nice, classic, slightly rustic look that I really like. But then again, I've always been a bit of a sucker for a slightly "work boat" look.

Another plus is that you can use pretty much any kind of lumber you want - plain old spruce boards from the local big box would work just fine. Way cheaper than that teak-n-holly plywood. Also if it gets a little scuffed or dirty, I won't care - with a bright varnished teak-n-holly sole, I'd be bumming every time somebody tromped on it with dirty shoes. With a painted wood deck, assuming you use some heavy-duty marine paint, you can pretty much hose it off into the bilge, and after a couple years, if it gets beat up, give it a quick sanding and re-paint. Or, if you wanted to go a little more high-dollar look, you could get some kind of nice hardwood and varnish it. I was toying with the idea of going all black walnut on it. Or maybe even oak. But then again, you've got that whole varnish maintenance thing, and that much wood might make it too dark in there - I like the brightness of painted surfaces.

But then I had the real stroke of something-or-other. A few years ago, I built a couple benches for our backyard deck:

Image

The two boards that make up the seating surface are actually a synthetic decking material. They are dimensioned just like your typical pressure-treated decking planks - about 7/8" thick, if I recall correctly, and about 6" wide. One side has a wood grain pattern; the other side has a non-skid surface. Very easy to work with; cuts with normal woodworking tools. Never rots, doesn't warp, crack, split, peel, whatever. The benches have been sitting out on our deck for about three years now, in the sun, rain, snow, ice, etc., and they still look very good. Only slightly faded - and fading won't be a problem inside the cabin. It comes in a nice tan color, and you can get special fasteners that enable you to fasten it without any screws showing on the surface, by using a biscuit cutter to cut little slots in the edges.

Although I'm sure purists would be horrified, I DON'T CARE!! It's MY boat!! HAHA!! Ahem. Excuse me.

So my plan is to install new floor timbers and then install that synthetic stuff. I'll never have to paint it, it will never rot, no matter how wet it might get, it won't warp, twist, whatever. And if it gets dirty I can literally hose it off and the water will run down right into the bilge, to be pumped overboard. And if I eventually decide I don't like it, it will be easy to simply pull out the screws holding down the hidden fasteners and yank the "boards" out. And then one easily could put down whatever sole one prefers. Although it's more expensive than real wood, it's way less expensive than the teak-n-holly plywood and similar synthetic stuff sold for sailboat cabin soles - I couldn't believe the pricing of that stuff! It will be a big time-saver, too, because once it's screwed down, I'm done - no painting.

First I have to cut, grind and sand off that remaining fiberglass lip that runs around the perimeter. I'll sand it all flush and also sand as much of the inside of the hull as I can get at with my sanders, to clean it up, fair out a few ridges and bumps, and leave a fresh, slightly scored surface for epoxy to grab.

Then I'll set about making new floors, which will be properly fitted in the old wooden boat tradition. I'm trying to decide what wood to use. I was thinking spruce or doug fir,both of which are traditional boat-building woods. A standard 2x10 from the big box typically is either of those two, and can yield some nice, vertical-grained pieces if you rip out the middle. But I also like the idea of oak, for something with a little stronger screw-holding power.

Either way, I'll soak the floors with penetrating epoxy sealer first, then epoxy and fillet them to the hull, with plenty of limber holes/spaces to allow any water to flow between.

Then I'll paint the whole shebang with Interlux Bilgekote. Then I'll install the new floor boards.

All of that will take a lot of time to fit everything, but I can picture it in my head, and I think it's going to look pretty sharp. I might one piece in there first, just to see whether I like it, before buying it all. If I decide that I was crazy after all to even consider it (yeah, like that would be the first time THAT ever happens), I can just return it and go to plan B - painted wood.
Rachel wrote:Oh, and the thing that looks like a pipe... is that something to do with the centerboard? Cable housing?
Got it in one! Yes, exactly.
Rachel wrote:I love the photo updates, thanks.
Glad you like it. Yew weccum!
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Rachel
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Rachel »

ILikeRust wrote:Well jeez, you're just full of questions, aintcha?

Well, it's just so interesting when you start taking things apart and looking inside! To the good, at least someone is taking an interest :) (And I bet it's not just me; we forumites are total suckers for projects and photos.)
ILikeRust wrote: [great explanation of how it was all put together]
Thanks, that made it all perfectly clear.
ILikeRust wrote:I saw this Herreshoff H28 for sale on eBay - I really, really liked the look of the interior
Heh, I was looking at that first shot trying to make sense of the overhead. Guess they had the coach roof off for rebuilding. I agree - I've always liked the "Herreshoff look" belowdecks. Nice and bright and tidy, and then any wood you do have is nicely set off. I'll be looking forward to seeing how your plank sole comes together.
ILikeRust wrote:But then again, I've always been a bit of a sucker for a slightly "work boat" look.
Me too. I like how they're tidy but not fussy, and how function is exposed but still not ugly. This is more about work standard and not design, but when I was working on my (previous) micro trawler I wanted to come up with a sort of reference standard for how "fine" I was going to make/paint/etc. things, and I decided my guiding principle would be "careful workboat." It worked out pretty well. Of course I wouldn't do that on every boat; just depends on the overall style.
ILikeRust wrote:Although I'm sure purists would be horrified, I DON'T CARE!! It's MY boat!! HAHA!! Ahem. Excuse me.
Ha ha! Well, boats and the sea are one of the last places left where you can basically do things your own way. I'm looking forward to future installments on the project; thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Rachel
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Zach »

About the cutting/grinding/sanding on the outer lip edge of the old sole tabbing.

Give a try with a wide chisel and hammer to work loose what you can.

What doesn't come out with a chisel can be cut out with a mini-grinder and a metal cut off wheel held so the nut rides flat against the hull. Less dust than trying to grind out all the little bits and pieces.

A flap disk (Dewalt brand from lowes) on a 4.5 inch mini grinder is one of the fastest/longer lasting grinding tools around. Also see how many amps your grinder uses, most are 6-8... One that is 10-13 takes half the time because it doesn't bog down.

Cheers,

Zach
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ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

By the way, I've also been proceeding with my Atomic A4 engine disassembly.

I've been posting updates to that project over the Moyer Marine Atomic A4 forum.

Rather than re-post the whole bloody massacre here, if'n yer innarested in more "before and during" photos of an old greasy engine being taken apart and some of the nifty bits and concerns in doing so, click here.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Paulus »

ILikeRust wrote:By the way, I've also been proceeding with my Atomic A4 engine disassembly.

I've been posting updates to that project over the Moyer Marine Atomic A4 forum.

Rather than re-post the whole bloody massacre here, if'n yer innarested in more "before and during" photos of an old greasy engine being taken apart and some of the nifty bits and concerns in doing so, click here.
Great job on the rebuild!

Interesting how you drilled out the additional cooling passages that apparently were plugged as a mod by the OEM to change/modify flow characteristics through the cylinder head. Now that these are open, if I were you, I would consider the effect of the now revised/increased coolant flow.

If you are considering to make it a fresh water/closed coolant loop as opposed to the (existing) raw water cooling loop, opening these passages was probably an excellent idea, as I am suspecting this was the reason for their existence. With a closed loop, you can set the coolant temperature to, say, 190F, which will get the head to heat up nicely and allow the exhaust gases to exit the head ports without "sweating" (leaving moisture mixed with products of combustion) onto the cool valve stems and surface areas.

Let me get to the point: If the head "sees" cold raw water as cooling medium, there will always be areas cold enough to have exhaust gases litterally condense unto passages and valve stems (I noted your exhaust valve stems showed signs of subsequent crud collection). Apparently, the OEM decided to get the head to run a bit hotter, by blocking some strategic coolant passages…

I believe a much better solution to the over cooling issue would have been to close the cooling system and manage the (inlet) coolant temperature, as I believe you are about to do. The much higher temperature of coolant as it circulates the head will efficiently avoid creating cold spots and thereby keep the crud from building up.

On the other hand, if you are planning on continuing to run cold raw water for cooling, you may see an overcooled head, with subsequent increased deposit build-up.

I hope this makes sense somehow…
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

I am going to convert to FWC, which will be the most expensive aspect of the overhaul.

I was waiting to see the condition of the engine before deciding whether to spend the money on the FWC kit. Having determined that the engine is in excellent condition overall, I figured it's worth the money to extend its life and reduce the need for muriatic acid engine flushes by converting to FWC.

I'll be replacing the thermostat housing and thermostat as well as installing a water temp/oil pressure alarm system, and new oil pressure and water temp gauges.

Lots of parts to buy and install.... but it's still far cheaper than buying a rebuilt engine or having someone do the overhaul for me.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

The saga continues...

Made the weekly 90-minute pilgrimage up to the boatyard again today.

First matter to address was pulling the prop, shaft and cutless bearing.

Much to my satisfaction, that entire process took less than 10 minutes. Lickety-split, out it all came, smooth as .... well, something very smooth.

First I pulled the prop, then went inside and pulled the shaft. While I was at it, I pulled out the stuffing box and hose - I figure while I'm at all this, I might as well replace the packing and the hose. Here is the whole assemblage on the tailgate of my pickup:

Image

Probably the first time any of that has seen the direct, bright light of day for 30 years or more.

Then on to the cutless bearing removal operation.

Here is a close-up shot of my custom-designed, hand-made, high-end, limited-edition, personalized cutless bearing removal tool:

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My original plan was to put a big washer on the inside end of the bearing and use this long piece of all-thread to pull it out. But because the bearing is inside a long stern tube, there was no way to get the washer in there - the inside of the tube is nearly the same diameter as the outside of the bearing, except for the outside few inches, where the bearing resides.

I felt in there with my finger and detected just the slightest lip at the back end of the bearing, so I just stuck the threaded rod in from the outside and hooked that hex nut behind the inside end of bearing. Then I gave it a yank, sort of like a slide hammer. Tap, tap, tap, tap. It started to move a bit. Tap, tap, tap. It moved more. Tap, TAP - POP. It came right out, easy as you please.

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Leaving me with a straight tube connecting the inside of the boat with the outside:

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Piiiiiiinoooooooochioooooooo!!!

That was just too easy.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Paulus »

Thanks posting with the pics - I am following along with great interest!!
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

After that, the next task was removing the fiberglass/resin lip left over from last week's cabin sole removing expedition.

Zach very helpfully suggested I use a chisel rather than grinding it all out. So I grabbed one of my beater chisels and sharpened it up before I left home this morning.

It worked like a CHAMP!

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Here is the exact same spot just a few seconds later:

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Thanks very much for the suggestion, Zach! It made it go much more quickly and less mess to boot!

I chiseled off the majority of the remaining lip in probably less than an hour. That just left a little ridge all the way around, which I went at with the angle grinder, equipped with 50-grit sandpaper. Which blasted that stuff away, leaving it nice and smooth:

Image

Notice in that pic that the exposed hull above the line is painted gray - below the line is just bare fiberglass in the bilge. I went ahead and used my random-orbit sander to sand off all that gray paint (which had been applied by the previous owner) since I'm going to re-paint the whole thing anyhow. I figured it would be better to start with as clean and fresh a surface as possible. As I blasted through the paint, I discovered it was the third color it had been painted. Under the gray was a rather nice sandy tan, which I would prefer, and under that was sort of a yellow-ey off-white.

All of which left it looking even more awful than it did before:

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And left me covered in itchy dust, which scratched me all the way home!
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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cantstopnow
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by cantstopnow »

Itchy and scratchy are two friends of mine!
Today is a great day to Go Sailing
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ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

OK, some more progress. I haven't been up to the boatyard for a couple weeks now. Two weekends ago, I had actual work to do - and I mean "work" work, not boat work. You know, that annoying thing most of us have to do to pay for the boat work. I had to spend most of the weekend doing that. Yeccch.

And last weekend I stayed home and worked on the engine a bit - cleaned and painted some parts. I'll do more engine work tomorrow - I received my big, fat, expensive order of parts from Moyer Marine yesterday.

Anyhow, today I went up to the boatyard and found my boat (they had moved it again since last time I was up there). I spent the day making templates for the floor timbers. This morning, before I left home, I took a hunk of 1/4" plywood and ripped it into several strips on my table saw. On the way up, I stopped at the local Ben Franklin Crafts shoppe and bought myself a "heavy duty" (yeah right) hot glue gun and several big glue sticks.

After using that glue gun all day, I don't know how I've gotten along without one for so long! What a great and handy little tool.

Anyhow, here are the templates I made.

A couple around the dining seating:

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Looking aft, from in the head:

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The dinette/galley area:

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Again:

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A little bitty one, against the forward bulkhead in the head:

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I know they might not look like they're all parallel or even in these pics, but they mostly are pretty close. I'm more concerned at this point with getting the profile of the hull than making sure the tops are perfectly aligned. These are, after all, merely templates for the actual floor timbers. I'm going to make the timbers about 1/2" oversized (taller than they need to be) and once I get the bottom profiles good, then I'll work on trimming the tops down to be all parallel and co-planar. The good thing is that I've got the dinette to use as a guide for the required level surface, and also a couple marks on the door jambs and bulkheads.

Also got a call last week from the sailmaker - the new main sail is all done and ready to ship!

My credit card is going to explode.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Well, I made the pilgrimage back up to the boatyard yet again today. This time, for the first time, my wife came along to help out, and because she said that would be the only way she would get to see me and spend time with me!

Anyhow, last weekend I roughed out the floor timbers based on the templates. Today I took them up to the boat (forgot one, though) and worked on fitting them in to the hull. One turned out slightly too short, so I have to re-make that, and I forgot a saw to cut notches where needed to straddle the tube for the centerboard pennant line, so I ended up fitting only three of them. Sigh. Well, there's always next week.

I, um, also forgot my camera. Yeah, I didn't sleep well last night, and I wanted to get out the door this morning, so I was in a bit of a fog and a rush.

I also pulled out the old through-hull for the engine water intake. I can't believe the thing wasn't leaking - it came right out easily and the sealant was all dried and crumbly. I'm pretty sure it was the factory original through-hull, so 42+ years old. Time for a modern replacement.

I also re-bedded a leaking portlight with butyl tape. It had previously been done with what looked like white silicone vinyl caulk, which just didn't work. That stuff doesn't stick to the Lexan windows. It looks much better now, and I'm betting it won't leak anymore! I'll have to wait for a rain (or hit it with a hose) and check it out. Another portlight on the other side of the cabin needs the same treatment.

On Friday, I picked up the engine block from the machine shop, where they had re-cut the valve seats after surface grinding the deck and head. Now I just need to lap the valves, and then finish cleaning the block, and next step after that will be primer on the block, then paint, and then it's time to start the reassembly! I should be able to get it mostly reassembled next weekend, which will be very cool to get that done.

I'll try to remember to get some more pics next time I get up there...
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Just a quick update, in case anyone is interested.

You can find the most recent progress on my Atomic 4 engine rebuild here, and the very most recent (past couple of days) update here.

Basically, I have spent a LOT of time stripping, cleaning and then priming and painting all the various engine parts. I dropped a big wad of cash on new parts and just this Monday I started putting it back together. The crankshaft, pistons and valve train are all back in.

As far as the boat itself, I was up there last weekend and continued work on fitting the new floor timbers to match the curvature of the hull, also re-bedded another fixed port light that had been leaking a bit, and installed the new cutless bearing.

Following MaineSail's tutorial, I bought a new Groco flanged adapter, through-hull and ball valve to replace the crappy old one I pulled out last weekend. I haven't yet installed it - I still need to get a couple things to do the job. But it will be far better than the wimpy thing that was there before.

Here is the old through-hull and hardware-store ball valve:

Image
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Inch by inch, step by step, slow progress being made here and there as time permits...

Studs in place:

Image

Gaskets on:

Image

Head on:

Image
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Then my customized lifting eye, with Taggart modification to distribute the load across four studs, rather than only two:

Image

Image

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And yes, I bought four lifting eye head studs, rather than only two. Ken questioned me about that - "you know you only need two lifting eye studs, right? You ordered four."

Yup!!
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Chris Campbell »

That surely is a fine looking Atomic IV! It really is great to get the motor out and redo it isn't it - afterward you really know what you've got, and will have no hesitation to dive in if you need to. I haven't done it with any boat motor (cars, years ago, but never a boat), and I think it needs to go on the ever-expanding list.

At any rate, great progress, and thanks for continuing to share it.
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

I was tired last night when I posted that - I actually meant to post it to the Atomic 4 forum, where I'm posting all the gory details on the engine rebuild. Didn't realize until this morning that I had posted it here, so I had to duplicate the post over at the A4 forum. You can see the whole massacree, from the beginning, in 4-part harmony here:

http://www.moyermarine.com//forums/show ... php?t=4808
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

A little more progress today - not as much as I had hoped, but that seems to be the story of every day.

Anyhow, following MaineSail's excellent "how-to" article, a couple nights ago I cobbled up a little fiberglass backing plate for my new bronze through-hull and adapter flange. Now that it was fully cured, I pulled it off the board I had laid it up on:

Image

Handling that thing was like trying to grab a cactus! Very prickly.

Here's the Groco adapter flange:

Image

I drew a circle of what generally looked to be a good diameter by tracing around a plastic container lid and cut out the backing plate on my bandsaw:

Image

The article says you need a backing plate unless your hull is "close to an inch thick" and of solid fiberglass. Well I think mine is an inch thick and is solid fiberglass, but I figured, what the heck; can't hurt to overbuild a bit. My backing plate is not quite as thick as the article suggests, but it should be sufficient, I think, given how thick the hull already is:

Image

I also made a little more progress on my engine. I installed and torqued all the head nuts, installed the flywheel cover and flywheel and dropped the reversing gear in place.

Image

Image
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

OK, made some good progress today and finally (finally!) hit a major milestone: got the floor timbers epoxied in place!

Here is the end result of several hours of hot work today:

Image

Image

I first hosed out the bilge (yes, literally - I dragged a hose up and through the forward hatch and sprayed the whole interior down, because it was thick with all the dust I had made from the last times I was up there, grinding away at the inside of the hull). Then sucked out all the dirty water with my trusty ShopVac.

I made a little batch of West epoxy and painted the bottoms of all the timbers and set them aside, then added colloidal silica to thicken it, but it was so hot today, it started kicking off, so I had to hustle. I didn't get it quite as thick as I had wanted, but it would have to do. One by one, I slapped on as thick a layer as I could get to stay on the timber and pressed it in place on the hull.

Once I had them all stuck, I had to wait a little while for the epoxy to kick, so I went ahead and made a small "half batch" of epoxy, added a mess of colloidal silica to get it "pretty thick", and stuck the backing plate for the new raw-water through hull:

Image

That picture is a little deceiving - I didn't realize that wire was in the way when I took the shot. I also didn't realize I accidentally got some epoxy on that wire. The wire actually is in the foreground, even though it kind of looks like it's stuck into the epoxy. As you can see, I had to cut a bit off the backing plate to accommodate the grounding lug - but there's still plenty of room for the through-hull adapter flange.

After that, I made another batch of nicely thickened epoxy and filleted all the floor timbers. That started kicking off pretty quickly again, so it wasn't long before it was firm enough for me to come back with yet another batch, this time unthickened, to stick down fiberglass tape to tab all the joints.

That last batch started kicking off in the cup before I got done and the bottom 1/2 inch suddenly turned into a smoking puck of hot plastic. Man, it's amazing how hot that stuff gets!

Anyhow, I mixed up one final small batch and finished all the fiberglass taping, so now all the floor timbers are bedded and filleted with thickened epoxy, and all those fillets covered with fiberglass tape epoxied down. Should do the job!
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
mitiempo
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Boat Name: Mi Tiempo
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by mitiempo »

Looks good.

Are you using fast or slow hardener? I always use the slow hardener for that extra bit of time.
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

I'm using slow hardener, but it was about 89 degrees out at the boatyard today.

I think next time I'll carry the resin and hardener cans up there in a cooler...

The other issue, I think, is the little plastic mixing cups I'm using. I found that unless I get the epoxy out of the cup and spread on something, after not very long, it started kicking and getting warmer and then it just sped up and got hotter and hotter, because it is in a concentrated mass in the bottom of the cup. As soon as I spread it out where it could shed the heat, the stuff that I had spread out would cool off and slow down - meanwhile the stuff still in the cup would harden up and practically burn my hand.

It really was obvious - the stuff that I had spread on the timbers was still tacky while what was left in the cup was smoking and getting rock hard.

So I think I need to mix it in the little mixing cup, but then transfer it to a shallow pan or something to give it more surface area so it won't cook like that.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
mitiempo
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by mitiempo »

The shallower the container the better off you are. I mix and use in old margerine containers about 2 1/2" deep and 6" across - I always save them for epoxy. I use the West pumps so the measurements aren't necessary and it is easy and fast to mix in small amounts this way.
Zach
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Zach »

I mix the resin out of one quart cups, and transfer to 2 1/2 and 5 quart mixing buckets depending on the ammount of thickened epoxy that is needed. 2 1/2 lines to a half, or 5 lines to one line for 5:1 mixes. You can work with each pot for about an hour, so long as you wipe everything out with a paint paddle at each mix.

Also a flat piece of plywood that you can blob on the epoxy and spread it out, works well. I have one that has two 2x1 battens screwed to the bottom. I cut a bevel on the sides 45 degrees so that a squeedgee can be scraped off clean and not sit on the floor leaving glue blobs. Grind off and reuse as neded. Plastic roller trays, and metal roller trays are not thick enough to have mass that can cool down epoxy that is heating up. Metal roller trays in sunlight don't work, as they collect heat... same goes for metal cookie sheets and trays.

I spread the first fillet blob and fillet the piece, just to get an idea of how big a blob it takes... Then blob 5 or 6 others, the same rough amount and spread it out. The stuff gets hot when it sits in the pot in volume, and when you divide it up it doesn't go off as fast. The same thing works for filleting a bulkhead, put a blob every inch or so.

I fillet with a west system mixing stick, and tend to glass just as soon as the fillets have gone harder than gel. The bulkheads or whatever can be tacked in place with hot glue or little blocks, and once the fillets kick off enough to be able to work around them without anything shifting, its time to glass. To late, and the fillets grab hold of the glass... Any goofs or leftover cabosil in thin film can be scraped up with a plastic squeedgee, or rubbed flat with some neat epoxy and a gloved hand.


Zach
1961 Pearson Triton
http://pylasteki.blogspot.com/
1942 Coast Guard Cutter - Rebuild
http://83footernoel.blogspot.com/
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Installed the new raw water intake through-hull today, following Maine Sail's most excellent photo tutorial.

My wife came along to keep me company, and it was very good to have the helping hands to hold things from the outside while I worked on the inside. It certainly would have been much more challenging without her.

Plus, I wouldn't have been able to take this picture of me working on it...

Image

It definitely was a "well, here we go" moment as I plunged the 1" diameter bit through the hull. I probably would not have attempted it without Maine Sail's tutorial. Since his description is so detailed, with plenty of photos, it demystified it enough that I approached the job with confidence.

I didn't manage to get the Sikaflex quite as neat as he does on the interior side of the job, though, most likely because I used a lot of the stuff. I figured it was better to have a little too much than not quite enough. A lot came squeezing out when I tightened the adapter flange down, so I wet my finger with mineral spirits and made a little cove/fillet with it.

Image

Just to prove it truly is a "through hull" fitting -

Image

The blurry stuff in the middle of the fitting is the gravel on the ground below the boat.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

The outside looks a lot more like Maine Sail's example:

Image

In any case, I am quite satisfied with the job and feel confident it should last for many years to come. In any event, it's a huge, massive improvement over the wimpy old one that this replaces.

I had planned on painting the bilge today, but it was just too stinking hot and humid and I was sweating my brains out. I said the heck with it - I'll do it next time.

I'll also patch over the countersunk screw heads around that through-hull fitting.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
Drew
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Drew »

That looks great.

I am also of the "there is no such thing as too much Sikaflex school of thought". The remainder always seems to get hard in the tube anyway so why not use plenty.

Drew
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

O.K., so I had to travel to L.A. for business for 2-1/2 weeks, so no work done on the boat. I got back on June 17 (a week ago Friday).

The weekend before I left, I finished putting my Atomic 4 engine back together, set up a test stand and tried to start it. You can see a bunch of pics of the reassembly and test stand here at the Moyer Marine Atomic 4 forum. Just scroll down the page a bit.

Here is a short video giving a 360-degree tour of my hi-tech redneck engine test stand.

First step in starting a newly-overhauled engine is to take the sparkplugs out and crank the engine to get the oil pressure up. I had zero oil pressure. Couldn't get any oil pressure, so I finally packed it in. As I was neatening up my workbench, I discovered one of the tiny little screw plugs that closes up the oil galley in the block. So that answered that issue. I had to head out to L.A., though, so it had to wait until I got back.

So last weekend, I opened the engine back up (after having put it all back together just a couple weekends before). Found where the plug was missing from and installed it. You can see pics here at the Moyer Atomic 4 forum. But opening up the engine destroyed a couple paper gaskets (which were brand new), so I had to order new ones and wait for their arrival. They came during the week.

So first thing yesterday (Saturday) morning, I headed out to the shop and started putting her back together. Again, I posted photos of ]my slightly unconventional reassembly method. Actually, I don't know how "unconventional" that truly is, but it's not the the process the Moyer Marine Overhaul Manual sets out, but I found it has its advantages - and one big disadvantage: you end up with your engine upside-down on your workbench.

Anyhow, by the end of the day, I had the beast fully reassembled and back on the test stand. But could not get it fired up. I could tell it was a timing problem, but no amount of fiddling with the secondary wires or the distributor would yield anything other than a whole bunch of backfiring through the carburetor.

Called it a day because I had been at it all day and was hot, sweaty, tired and ready for two beers, as it turned out. Posted the results of my day and solicited ideas on the Atomic 4 forum. Spent the night fretting and worrying about it, hoping it was not the case that I had installed the camshaft off the timing mark, because that would mean I would have to open up the engine AGAIN.

Went out to the shop this morning with a renewed vigor and sense of purpose, and quickly discovered that, in fact, I had set the timing 180 degrees off. When I set top dead center in the number one cylinder yesterday, it was on the exhaust stroke, not the combustion stroke. Took me about 5 minutes to realize and fix my error, and another few minutes to set up the test stand, and here is the result.

So it turned out to be a pretty good weekend after all.
Last edited by ILikeRust on Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Went up to the boatyard today and applied the first coat of Bilgekote:

Image

It was so ridiculously stinkin' hot and humid - I literally was dripping sweat continuously - and half the time, it dripped into the paint.

As you might be able to see, I got about 95% done with this first coat. That last bit I purposely left undone because (1) I was so freakin' hot and sweaty it was beating me to death and (2) I was running out of some place to stand and (3) I am building a battery box to go in that area and I don't want to paint it until I'm done epoxying and such in that corner. I'll paint it all when the battery box is in.

I think it looks about a thousand percent better than it did before. It should look a million percent better with the second coat. Hopefully I'll find a cooler day to do that.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
Shoalcove
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Shoalcove »

Nice job! I painted my bilges this spring as well, and was very pleased with the results. Made the boat look and smell better. I'm totally impressed with your engine rebuild project. Very nice job!
Best regards,
David
7 1/2' Nutshell Pram
Spindrift 11N
Perry designed CheoyLee35
radicalcy
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by radicalcy »

When you have time one day, could you come by and help me hook up a harness for bench testing my A4?
Larry Wilson
Columbia 8.7
Columbia Sabre
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Sure.

But what is this "spare time" thing of which you speak?

Yesterday afternoon, I fired up my engine again, just because I could and I wanted to hear it again. I also had to do the final head re-torquing to confirm all head nuts are properly torqued. The Moyer Manual specifies that you have to run it up to at least 150 degrees, and then re-torque the nuts while hot, then let it cool down, then do it again, then let it cool, then do it finally a third time, or until none of the nuts continue to get tighter when torqued to 35 lb-ft.

Next thing I have to do, now that I've run the engine maybe a total of 20-30 minutes, is open up the side plate and re-check the valve tappet clearances. Evidently, sometimes they settle in a bit when first run. Once I get that done, the rebuild will be 100% done and complete, and the engine will be completely ready to be hoisted back into the boat. Then I'll have a bunch of plumbing and wiring to do. I'm installing a fresh-water-cooling kit, so that will require some new hoses and I'll have to figure out where to mount the heat exchanger.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
radicalcy
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by radicalcy »

Didn't say "spare" ....just..... time...lol .
I forget y're a lawyer ....billing hours and all that.....
Larry Wilson
Columbia 8.7
Columbia Sabre
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Hey, if I come over on my lawyer time, rather than my "spare" time, you probably would not like my rates!
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

I'm thinking I need to re-name my thread here. I need to delete the "before Spring". As it is now, I'm thinking hopefully I'll get it done before 2011 is over...

Anyhow, I'm Inching closer to getting the engine back in the boat...

Went back up to the boat again today - another crazy hot day. This time, though, I brought along the cheap box fan I bought at WalMart yesterday and laid it down on the open forward hatch. It helped a lot - both to keep the heat inside the boat down and to move the paint fumes out. I was still sweating like a race horse, but not quite as profusely as last time.

I fit the new battery box that I fabbed up last week, and epoxied in a support for it. I also laid down two more coats of Bilgekote bilge paint, so that should pretty much be done, except for one or two small spots that need just a little more work. It looks way better now. No pics, though - I was too beat to do anything but pack up and head home.

I need to fix the attachment point for part of my centerboard pennant system. There is a spool hanging on the bulkhead above the engine, and the line goes down a copper tube next to the engine, then into an enclosed pulley that turns it about 70 degrees, then forward, under the cabin sole to another enclosed pulley that turns it down outside the hull, where it then attaches to the centerboard.

The first enclosed pulley is attached to a hunk of wood that *was* epoxied into the hull next to the engine beds. Looks like it let go some time ago, and someone (probably the prior owner, I'm guessing) stuck a couple screws through the fiberglass tab into the wood to try to hold it in place.

So next weekend, I'll go back up to the boat and install the prop shaft and stuffing box, and hopefully re-epoxy that wooden block for the centerboard pennant. Then I'll do the final bits of bilge painting that need to be done, and then she should be ready to receive the engine!

So the week after next, if all goes according to plan, I'll take a day off work (oh, I'm heartbroken about that) and head up there early. I'll have the yard fire up the crane and drop the engine back in, and then do some hooking back up of various connections. I'll probably have to finish the job the following weekend, but once the engine is in, I'll re-launch, despite the fact that there's no cabin sole and lots more interior woodworking, painting and varnishing to do. I figure I can do that in the slip at the marina - I want to stop paying this monthly yard fee and get her back in the water!

I figure that even if the cabin is still a wreck, at least I can still day-sail her...
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Well it most definitely is no longer spring, but I'm most definitely not yet done with "what I'm doing with my boat, 2011."

But I am making progress.

Got up at 5:00 a.m. today (played hooky from work), hit the road at 5:30 and was at the boatyard at 7:02 a.m.

The Atomic 4 on the tailgate:

Image


Image


Image
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Image


I said to the guy, "I dunno - you think that crane is big enough to lift this engine?"

He replied, without missing a beat, "I could go get the big one."

Apparently, this is their "small" crane.

Image

The view from the inside the cabin:

Image

The mysterious levitating engine!
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Image

On the left, you can see my shiny new through-hull. On the right, the support for the new battery box I'm not quite done building yet.

Also, all that white stuff: the @"#$*&@^! bilge paint that nearly killed me. That was a lot of work.

And of course, looking at this pic, I'm now seeing some places I missed...
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

The best part is that, even with the PTO shaft and pulley for the freshwater cooling kit on the front of the engine, there is still enough room behind where the bulkhead will go that I don't have to relocate it. I was not sure whether I would have to move the bulkhead forward a couple inches, but I can attach the new bulkhead I'm making right to the same cleats the old one came off.

After this, I sanded and varnished (actually, Cetol'd) one grab rail on the cabin roof. By 10:00 a.m., it was too stinkin' hot and humid to do anymore, and I was working in the direct sun, so I packed it in and went home.

It is ridiculously hot and humid here today. The heat is one thing - I mean, it's about 103 F. But that would be at least marginally tolerable if it weren't for the insane humidity too.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
bigd14
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by bigd14 »

Great progress! That must be gratifying getting the engine back in place. I am NOT complaining, but we have had rain, and clouds, and rain and clouds and rain, etc. This has prevented much daytime heating and turned off our nice summertime north winds here. So unfortunately not much enjoyable sailing weather. I almost wish I were still working on the boat (well, not really!). Keep on working it!

Doug
Doug
1972 Ericson 27
radicalcy
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by radicalcy »

Y're a better man than I am, Charlie Brown!!! My Yanmar gave up on me as I tied up last Saturday nite, at the stroke of midnite, after having been towed back from Towles Point Shoal. Spent three hours Sunday replacing fuel line and bleeding the fuel system with no positive result. I'm not going back until the temps get below 90. There was as much perspiration in the bilge as there was water from the shaft seal.
Larry Wilson
Columbia 8.7
Columbia Sabre
jbarnes
Bottom Sanding Grunt
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by jbarnes »

You have done some beautiful work. Love that fire engine red.

I like the lines and general design of the Wanderer very much, but keep wondering how much bilge is left after all the space taken up by the centerboard. From your pictures it looks like any bilge pump must live under the engine bed and be the devil to access. Also, the bilge around the centerboard pivot is recessed and looks like it will want to collect water rather than pass it off to a lower point. What do you thing, am I reading the photos correctly?
ILikeRust
Skilled Systems Installer
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Boat Name: Grizabella
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

jbarnes wrote:You have done some beautiful work. Love that fire engine red.
Thanks!

...and miles to go before I sleep.

Still have lots of work to do.
jbarnes wrote:I like the lines and general design of the Wanderer very much, but keep wondering how much bilge is left after all the space taken up by the centerboard. From your pictures it looks like any bilge pump must live under the engine bed and be the devil to access. Also, the bilge around the centerboard pivot is recessed and looks like it will want to collect water rather than pass it off to a lower point. What do you thing, am I reading the photos correctly?
I didn't think my pics were that good!

Yup, looks like you pretty much have assessed the situation. The area in the center of cabin, around the centerboard, I don't really even consider to be "bilge", although technically it is, I guess. It's only a few inches below the cabin sole. The "real" bilge - the deep area where any water that enters aggregates, is back under the engine, for the most part.

I do need to squeeze a bilge pump under there. Either that, or find one that uses a pickup hose and can live up in the engine box or somewhere else. I think I can stick a regular bilge pump under there, though. Then there's the challenge of where to put the float switch and how to mount it down there. Maybe screw/epoxy it to a small block of lead and just set it down in there? Other than that, I'm not sure how I'm going to get it to stay in place.

In any case, my re-designed cabin sole will make it easier to get a bilge pump down under there. The original sole just had a small hatch in that area, making it impossible to get a bilge pump all the way back under the engine. My design will have that whole section of the cabin floor able to lift out, giving plenty of access to that part of the bilge (other than the pesky engine and bed in the way.

Maybe I need a periscope, or one of those flexible glass-fiber videocams, to peek down under there.

When I cleaned it out and sucked out all the nasty water with my Shop-Vac, I found two deep-well sockets, numerous small washers and hex nuts, what looks to me like a diving belt lead weight, a hunk of wood, and a few other bits of debris and detritus that had been lost under there for years.

And indeed, the area around the centerboard pivot pin is recessed, and if water does get in (as it currently does, due to a small cabin roof leak), it ends up there, and I use my Shop-Vac to suck it out.

The good news is that overall, the hull on this boat is very dry - it rarely has any water anywhere inside - and if it does, it's usually because it rained, and some water came in through the deck leaks. I'm working on fixing those and have eliminated several already. Still a couple more to solve.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Rachel
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Rachel »

jbarnes,

Just a note: If you like the Wanderer because you want a centerboarder, then never mind ;) But if you like the Wanderer for other reasons, then do you know about the Coaster? It was made as a "sister" to the Wanderer and is basically the same boat but with a fixed keel. It draws a bit more than the Wanderer with the board up, of course, but it has the usual deep bilge/slope.
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Figment »

Why the elbow-up for the PCV?
ILikeRust
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:22 pm
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

Because that's how Indigo recommends it to be installed, for proper operation of the valve.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
jbarnes
Bottom Sanding Grunt
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:30 pm
Boat Type: Venture 21
Location: Westerly, RI

Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by jbarnes »

Rachel wrote: Just a note: If you like the Wanderer because you want a centerboarder, then never mind ;) But if you like the Wanderer for other reasons, then do you know about the Coaster? It was made as a "sister" to the Wanderer and is basically the same boat but with a fixed keel. It draws a bit more than the Wanderer with the board up, of course, but it has the usual deep bilge/slope.
Thanks for the suggestion; I have looked at the Coaster. While it is based on the same lines, the cabin-top is about a foot shorter. I like the longer cabin both for interior space and to store a hard dinghy on top. I'm up in the air about centerboards, they allow wonderful gunk-holing, but take-up a lot of the bilge area. I also wonder about the ultimate stability, because the ballast does not sit as deep in the water.
ILikeRust wrote:In any case, my re-designed cabin sole will make it easier to get a bilge pump down under there. The original sole just had a small hatch in that area, making it impossible to get a bilge pump all the way back under the engine. My design will have that whole section of the cabin floor able to lift out, giving plenty of access to that part of the bilge (other than the pesky engine and bed in the way.
Good plan, you will want all the access you can get to the only section of deep bilge.

To switch topics somewhat, what is the condition of the mast step? I can't help wondering how solid the setup is when there is no direct support post/ bulkhead under the mast. From various Wanderer images I am guessing there is a steel brace at deck level that lies fore and aft bridging the gap in cabin support. After all these years, does the cabin top show any signs of depression around the mast; such as any water wanting to collect there?

Thanks for keeping us up to date and making the effort to include the pictures. I have been following and enjoying your post for awhile.
ILikeRust
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:22 pm
Boat Name: Grizabella
Boat Type: Pearson Wanderer 30
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

jbarnes wrote:I'm up in the air about centerboards, they allow wonderful gunk-holing, but take-up a lot of the bilge area. I also wonder about the ultimate stability, because the ballast does not sit as deep in the water.
I would not worry one bit about the stability of the Wanderer. There is 3,800 lbs. of lead down at the bottom of the keel. The way I explained it to my wife is that it was the equivalent of having a full-sized passenger car hanging under the boat. The boat is very heavy and stable indeed. I haven't ever had it out in truly scary conditions, but I have it out when it was blowing pretty good, with 3-4 foot waves, and it just plowed right along. I think you'd have to try pretty hard and be out in some pretty awful conditions to have a knock-down in a Wanderer. It basically would have to be conditions in which pretty much any boat would get knocked down.
jbarnes wrote:To switch topics somewhat, what is the condition of the mast step? I can't help wondering how solid the setup is when there is no direct support post/ bulkhead under the mast. From various Wanderer images I am guessing there is a steel brace at deck level that lies fore and aft bridging the gap in cabin support. After all these years, does the cabin top show any signs of depression around the mast; such as any water wanting to collect there?
Nope. No problems whatsoever. It's quite solid. I'll have to take a good look at that whole area and see how it really does work. There is a compression post in the bulkhead between the main cabin and the head. It forms part of the doorjamb. I originally had thought that post was directly under the mast, but evidently it's slightly after of the mast. To be honest, I've never really taken a good close look at that whole arrangement.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

In fact, come to think of it, I just remembered this little tidbit -

The guy I bought the boat from included in among all the big pile of paperwork an article from one of the older sailng magazines, about boat stability. I'll have to dig it up, but as I recall, the essence of it was a discussion about how much do you have to be concerned about a knock-down, and if you do get knocked-down, what about self-righting?

The author came up with various factors that he used to evaluate the stability of various designs, and published a table assigning a rating to each design. I can't remember the specifics, but he defined a threshold number above (or below, can't remember) which the boat was considered to be very stable - i.e., not prone to knock-down and also self-righting. The Wanderer was scored very well - it was found to be a very stable design.

Bill Shaw designed the Wanderer after he had worked as a designer with Sparkman and Stephens for something like 11 years. The guy knew what he was doing.

I have to say that when I see some of the designs that came later, with their skinny little fin keels and spade rudders, I always wonder how stable they can be. They seem to have less boat in the water and thus more susceptible to moving around on the waves like a cork. The Wanderer, being a full keel boat, sits down in the water and doesn't bounce around a lot in chop.
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
ILikeRust
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:22 pm
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by ILikeRust »

radicalcy wrote:When you have time one day, could you come by and help me hook up a harness for bench testing my A4?
Hey Larry, did you ever get around to this?
Bill T.
Richmond, VA

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." - T E Lawrence
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Rachel
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Re: What I'm doing with my boat, 2011, before Spring (hopefully)

Post by Rachel »

jbarnes wrote:I have looked at the Coaster. While it is based on the same lines, the cabin-top is about a foot shorter. I like the longer cabin both for interior space and to store a hard dinghy on top.
From what I have seen, there was a later development, where the cockpit/deck mold was changed (I have only seen this on Wanderers, not coasters). The coamings became fiberglass, the rudder post-meets-cockpit area was changed, and a few other things. But I believe early/most Wanderers have the same deck/cabintop as Coasters.
jbarnes wrote:To switch topics somewhat, what is the condition of the mast step? I can't help wondering how solid the setup is when there is no direct support post/ bulkhead under the mast. From various Wanderer images I am guessing there is a steel brace at deck level that lies fore and aft bridging the gap in cabin support. After all these years, does the cabin top show any signs of depression around the mast; such as any water wanting to collect there?
It looked to me like the steel mast step/unit bridged the two main bulkheads (I have seen a few of them replaced with new ones due to rust; the fiberglass part you see is just a cosmetic cover). I will say that -- considering your dinghy-on-cabintop desire -- the Coaster/Wanderer give you less cabin-top dinghy space than some of the slightly smaller boats (similar 28 and 29 footers), from what I have seen. It's a combination of the mast being slightly further aft as compared to the companionway/slider, and the steel mast step.

I like the Coaster a lot but that was one of my "darn!" points on it (of course all boat models have some/many of these!).
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