Bolero Concept

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:23 pm

I notice that the folkboats and Knarr and others with the forward extensions also tend to have a lot more crown to the coachroof.

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:02 pm

Yes, I was just stirring the pot a bit... It's your decision and your aesthetic sense that counts. I also hadn't seen the mock up with the sides in the other thread - I do agree that adding the extensions probably isn't in fitting with the cabin that you have designed - it would be a mixing of the metaphors so to speak.

Now that I look and think about it they would only really look good on a boat with some sweep to the cabin top.

Sorry to add to the confusion, but it was good dialog anyway.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:24 am

Noah wrote:Yes, I was just stirring the pot a bit... It's your decision and your aesthetic sense that counts. I also hadn't seen the mock up with the sides in the other thread - I do agree that adding the extensions probably isn't in fitting with the cabin that you have designed - it would be a mixing of the metaphors so to speak.

Now that I look and think about it they would only really look good on a boat with some sweep to the cabin top.

Sorry to add to the confusion, but it was good dialog anyway.

No need to apologize. The dialog on this forum has been a great help in challenging my ideas and refining my vision for this project.

Kristian · Post by **Kristian** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:57 pm

I get the feeling you've been through these, but in case you haven't I would take a look at backissues of the Shields Masthead
http://www.shieldsclass.com/pdfs/Mastheads/
Someone did a similar Shields conversion years ago, and sailed it in the Caribbean.

Shields look good in any color, except orange and yellow. I sailed for years on a white one, and then ended up on a Stars and Stripes Blue boat:
http://shieldsclass.com/images/Shields_ ... %20150.htm
My new Shields is eventually going light gray topsides, red/gray waterline and red bottom.

No matter what you'll be the best looking boat around.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:15 pm

Welcome to the Forum, Kristian!

Rachel

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:15 pm

Kristian wrote:I get the feeling you've been through these, but in case you haven't I would take a look at backissues of the Shields Masthead
http://www.shieldsclass.com/pdfs/Mastheads/
Someone did a similar Shields conversion years ago, and sailed it in the Caribbean.

Shields look good in any color, except orange and yellow. I sailed for years on a white one, and then ended up on a Stars and Stripes Blue boat:
http://shieldsclass.com/images/Shields_ ... %20150.htm
My new Shields is eventually going light gray topsides, red/gray waterline and red bottom.

No matter what you'll be the best looking boat around.

Thanks Kristian. I have read through all of the old Shields Mastheads and found that story quite interesting. So interesting, in fact, that I managed to find that sailor and pestered him into giving me a bit of an update on his tropical Shields "cruising". I reposted the old Masthead stories along with the update on my blog.

http://knockaboutsloops.blogspot.com/20 ... style.html

So it appears that you are a Shields sailor and a proffessional rigger. I bet you would have had some great advice for me a month ago when I was replace most of the deck hardware :).

Oh wow, you sailed on boat #150. She is one sweet boat. I have received a lot of inspiration looking at the photos of her restoration. During the whole what color should the boat be phase, I mocked up Bolero with a similar color scheme. Some choices are really hard.

By the way, what hull number are you restoring?

Bill

Kristian · Post by **Kristian** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:58 am

Well.... After seeing that mockup I have to vote SS Blue, white bottom and gold stripe!

150 belongs to my friend Kevin Teborek, who bought the boat in 03 after winning a number of dinghy national and world championships. He restored the boat over a winter, and it's probably the most completely restored Shields around, although HL Devore's Mermaid is close. To see the boat up close is to think you're looking at a very well built new boat. Even the bilge is spotless. I started sailing the boat at the end of 04, and it's a peach to sail. Should you ever be in Chicago look up either Kevin or myself and we'd be happy to show you around.

I bought Shields 88 this fall with the intent to get it racing again for 08 season and the 09 National Championship. Shes been out of the water for 2 years, and had a nasty bow on collision with a powerboat last time she was in the water. My focus for this is go fast first, then aesthetics. To that end I'm repairing and fairing the keel, repairing the soft spots and retabbing the whole boat. After that we're stiffening the boat up in a few spots and making a tie-rod/strut stiffener for the mast step and chainplates. From there I get to do what I actually know how to do, and rerig the boat. It's going to be used a few rigging articles and the like.

If time, money and an available spray booth allow, we're going with light gray awlgrip topsides, red vc17 bottom and a red/gray contrast waterline stripe. This may not happen this winter. My work schedule (slammed from March through August) means this boats got to be ready to launch by March.

We're keeping a blog at www.shields88.blogspot.com as I work on the boat around customers projects. Todays going to be my first full day at the yard, and I'm attaching new fiberglass fairing stips to the back edge of the keel, and if time allows beginning to fair the rest of the keel.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:05 am

Kristian,

One of the reasons that I have chosen my unusual route to new boat ownership is that my main goal is to maximize the wind range in which I can sail.

With this in mind I would love pick your brain on the light wind and heavy wind limits of the Shields. Specifically, how much wind do they need to start moving and when do they typically reach haul speed on say, a close reach. On the other end of the spectrum is heavy air. I believe they are typically race with 4 or 5 crew but what is the upper wind limit for controlled sailing. In my case I am trying to figure out what the upper wind limit would be for a crew of two in a "slightly" more relaxed environment. My gut feel is that I want to add one or two reef points to my mainsail to keep the boat on her feet with my smaller crew. I would love your input on where you might put reefs in if you were going that route.

As I rowed home in my last boat (Bluenose Sloop) I would think of ways to increase the sail area. One idea that kept coming up was a masthead asymmetric or code zero on a furler. Do you think that the Shields fractional rig could support this type of setup and would it even be worthwhile?

I quite appreciate you taking the time to post you Shields #88 restoration on you blog. I will be a daily reader. I am not sure Tim will be so excited. I am already thinking how cool your deadwood seem repair is and new fairing strips and keel boat torque...

Thanks, Bill

Kristian · Post by **Kristian** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:01 am

Bill,

I'm really glad I came across your project. With a few exceptions there aren't a lot of people talking Shields online, even though Shields owners and crew tend to be pretty excited to do so in person.

And don't get too excited about the structural work I'm doing. #9's bottom is in much better shape than 88's. Also, I'm one of those "last inch" people when it comes to boat prep. Also(2) I'm jealous of 150's bottom, which is pretty flawless. To be quite honest, if I could I would send my boat to Tim for a (one design) restoration!, as he seems very good at what he does. I can promise you some very neat ideas when it comes to the rigging.

The Shields is a heavy boat, and needs a little work to get moving in the light, especially downwind. Definitely a great boat in a breeze; this years nationals had 2 races in the high 20's and I've never had such fun. For a couple cruise I'm comfortable in anything up to about 20 with standard sails. Over that and it just gets too wet, although the boats still very easy to control. A local sailor used to race singlehanded up to about 25, with a small reef in the main. By the way, has anyone told you about scoop mode yet? It's a unique condition of shields sailing that when close reaching in choppy seas, the jib tends to regularly deposit waves into the jib trimmers lap.

I've certainly thought about putting in an masthead sheave and getting a used T10 spinnaker. Problem is that the mast tip has a lot of unsupported length, and is pretty bendy (you should have seen it when we broke the backstay in 30kts) I think in order to do it right you'd need to add a set of jumpers or cap shrouds. That would make a MH sails more than just a 5kt affair. On reaches to and from the race course I've thought the better ticket would be some sort of jib top reacher, sheeted to the toe rail, or even the spinnaker turning blocks and barberhauled. I'm asking my sailmaker today if he has any thoughts on the subject, I've never taken this idea very far for OneDesign reasons.

Hope I haven't spooked you with the light air talk. While thats their weakness, they're still a pleasure to sail. In fact, I get a lot less frustrated in light air shields sailing than I do in the more modern raceboats I sail the rest of the time. You've picked a great platform for your project, as the boats definitely have that undefinable good feeling about them.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:08 am

Hmmm... This would work pretty well in my Triton as well.

I bet Bomar makes a hatch that I could fit my Bruce through too...

-Britton

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:18 pm

And don't get too excited about the structural work I'm doing. #9's bottom is in much better shape than 88's. Also, I'm one of those "last inch" people when it comes to boat prep. Also(2) I'm jealous of 150's bottom, which is pretty flawless. To be quite honest, if I could I would send my boat to Tim for a (one design) restoration!, as he seems very good at what he does. I can promise you some very neat ideas when it comes to the rigging.

Something had to be in reasonable shape on old number 9. From all the pictures I have seen you will be setting yourself a high bar using 150 as your goal / idol.

Yep, Tim is the heart and soul of this project. He brings an amazing amount of knowledge, experience and enthusiasm to this conversion. I don't think that casual followers see half of what he brings. For me this is a once in a lifetime thing so I picked the smallest, most gorgeous boat I could afford to buy and have it be really, really nice. And I chose my builder wisely.

As far as rigging goes, I have made a number of purchase decisions which will direct some of my choices. But I am pretty flexible so I will watch and learn as you go down that path.

The Shields is a heavy boat, and needs a little work to get moving in the light, especially downwind. Definitely a great boat in a breeze; this years nationals had 2 races in the high 20's and I've never had such fun. For a couple cruise I'm comfortable in anything up to about 20 with standard sails. Over that and it just gets too wet, although the boats still very easy to control. A local sailor used to race singlehanded up to about 25, with a small reef in the main. By the way, has anyone told you about scoop mode yet? It's a unique condition of shields sailing that when close reaching in choppy seas, the jib tends to regularly deposit waves into the jib trimmers lap.

Thanks for this info. The weight of the Shields was one of my few surprises during Tim destruction phase. Tim found that on Bolero they used epoxy with micro balloons instead of the standard end grain balsa. So the pieces that Tim cut ouu and removed weighed a fair bit and will have a major offset for the weight we will be adding. Also, I just love getting rid of that whole wet core thing. I would love to know where you local sailor put that first reef. I feel like I am working in a vacuum when I make some of these choices.

I've certainly thought about putting in an masthead sheave and getting a used T10 spinnaker. Problem is that the mast tip has a lot of unsupported length, and is pretty bendy (you should have seen it when we broke the backstay in 30kts) I think in order to do it right you'd need to add a set of jumpers or cap shrouds. That would make a MH sails more than just a 5kt affair. On reaches to and from the race course I've thought the better ticket would be some sort of jib top reacher, sheeted to the toe rail, or even the spinnaker turning blocks and barberhauled. I'm asking my sailmaker today if he has any thoughts on the subject, I've never taken this idea very far for OneDesign reasons.

This has been my worry all along. It is my understanding that originally the Shields had jumper struts and that they were removed. Without really knowing much, other than living with jumper struts for three years, I think I like the idea of cap shrouds. Do you think these would need to be in addition to the forward lowers and the current uppers or do you think there might be a way to modify the current uppers.

I will be curious to hear what you sailmaker thinks.

Hope I haven't spooked you with the light air talk. While thats their weakness, they're still a pleasure to sail. In fact, I get a lot less frustrated in light air shields sailing than I do in the more modern raceboats I sail the rest of the time. You've picked a great platform for your project, as the boats definitely have that undefinable good feeling about them.

No worries here as I am not easily spoked. I realized moving up from my Bluenose Sloop, which was based on an old race herself, that I would have to work a bit to keep the light air capabilities. I appreciate the heads up so I can start really looking at this. And after all, with a SA/D ratio of 21, Shields still carry a bit of sail. I just want more.

One more question. Do you know if there is a polar diagram for the Shields? I have never been able to locate one.

Cheers, Bill

jollyboat · Post by **jollyboat** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:49 pm

[quote-No worries here as I am not easily spoked. I realized moving up from my Bluenose Sloop, which was based on an old race herself, that I would have to work a bit to keep the light air capabilities. I appreciate the heads up so I can start really looking at this. And after all, with a SA/D ratio of 21, Shields still carry a bit of sail. I just want more.]

Bill - the Shields carries a fair amount of sail, which in meeting your itch, one thought may be to use a lighter, more exotic material. Reducing weight aloft is almost as good as increased sail area and might be the better choice for the Shields in as far as keeping within a reasonable weight range of the original design. Even with the changes that are being made in this concept re-creation, the added weight in it's construction will not be so much as to cause radical differences in the sailing characteristics of the boat. There are many 'cruising laminates' on the market that are signifcantly lighter than woven materials, wonderfully engineered, stable and almost 1/2 the weight - this all comes to you wrapped in a life extending 'double taffeta' which effectively conceals the weapons below the skin - (aramid, spectra, even carbon fiber) With all of the work that is being done, wouldn't you consider a fresh suit of sails too?

[/quote]

Kristian · Post by **Kristian** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:00 pm

Not chasing 150 cosmetically, thats well outside my tax bracket. I do plan on having her chase us, sailing wise. :> 150 is just about perfect, even after 3 years of us running her into things and spilling rum on the brightwork. Kevin does a great job keeping her in shape.

What part of Bolero was epoxy/filler? Usually the decks are plywood, and the hulls are solid laminate. #9 is an oldie, so who knows whats happened over the last 40 odd years!

I asked Perry Lewis , our local North sailmaker and general smart guy, about powering up a Shields and heres what he said:

"Might add a 150% genoa (& track)?
Yes better to go higher w/ spinnaker/Code 0 haly'd. He'd need to get mast advice, for sure add jumpers &/or set of swept-aft spreaders, etc. "

To support the mast tip, I would think jumper strut would be first priority (sorry!), and possibly changing spreader angle. Carrying cap shrouds to the top would help, but would have to be in addition to the current uppers, as those support the headstay and can't be removed. Really though, I would urge you to sail the boat first, and then modify the rig if you feel underpowered.

I can barely recall, but I believe the reef was about a 3' slab. I do remember that it was a single line reef, which meant that the reef size was dictated by the exit block, which was positioned so it wouldn't be too close to the mainsheet bail. Phew.

Didn't make it down to the Shields today, but got to play in someones private shed for his boats. Not the typical shed, it has a farr40, two j105's, 2 t10s, 2 Tom28's, a Melges 24, a Protector RIB and a few odds and ends. Im incredibly jealous, it was 65 degrees in there. sigh.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:49 pm

Kristian,

Thanks for the advice and don't worry sailing will happen before these big changes. I have a budget and a tax brackets as well even though it may not look like it.

And yep, that mainsheet bail is right about where you would want to put a reef. Can't something be simple.

As far as your "Lifestyle of the Rich and Famous" day, wow that sounds like great fun.

Cheers, Bill

rbgarr · Post by **rbgarr** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:46 pm

I use one singlehanded on Shields #56 from the standard spinnaker halyard location. I don't think you have to go to the trouble of going all the way to the masthead. The luff is 30+' and the foot is 17+', sheeted to the standard turning blocks. I got the sail from a Worrell 1000 catamaran (eBay) so it's very light weight which suits our weather here (average 5-8 knots). Sailing wing and wing is delightful, especially if the backstay is let off so the mast rakes forward as much as it can. It can be carried up to a close reach in light winds and it's a hoot to fly along making your own wind when the water is virtually still with no signs of any wind on the surface.

I need to add a retrieving line about halfway up and a third back from the luff just to make it easier to douse by my self. I'm considering adding a launch tube under the deck but we'll see.

I also have a reef in the main that is about two feet above the boom. It rarely gets windy enough to need it however, but that's just a local thing.

I notice on your cockpit plan that you extend the cockpit seats all the way back to the aft bulkhead. The standard seats leave a gap there. In tight situations I often raise the tiller almost vertical to turn as hard as I can. I think the longer seats will get in the way of doing that, blocking the swing of the tiller. Just thought I'd mention it.

Dave

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:38 pm

I use one singlehanded on Shields #56 from the standard spinnaker halyard location. I don't think you have to go to the trouble of going all the way to the masthead. The luff is 30+' and the foot is 17+', sheeted to the standard turning blocks. I got the sail from a Worrell 1000 catamaran (eBay) so it's very light weight which suits our weather here (average 5-8 knots). Sailing wing and wing is delightful, especially if the backstay is let off so the mast rakes forward as much as it can. It can be carried up to a close reach in light winds and it's a hoot to fly along making your own wind when the water is virtually still with no signs of any wind on the surface.

Thanks for the spinnaker information Dave. Most of my thinking is just wintertime philosophizing. Until I actually sail Bolero I won't make any changes to the sail plan. I do want to extend the sailing capability down to the lightest wind possible.

I notice on your cockpit plan that you extend the cockpit seats all the way back to the aft bulkhead. The standard seats leave a gap there. In tight situations I often raise the tiller almost vertical to turn as hard as I can. I think the longer seats will get in the way of doing that, blocking the swing of the tiller. Just thought I'd mention it.

Good to know. We have widened the aft cockpit a bit, but my configuration is also our first stab. I am sure that Tim and I will have a couple of chats before he starts hacking (maybe hacking isn't the right word :) away at the cockpit seats.

Cheers, Bill

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:13 pm

Oh, I think "hacking" is probably a pretty accurate term. Boat work is definitely not pretty. In my profesion broadly in the field of maintenance we try very hard not to let the customer to see what is actually going on.

rbgarr · Post by **rbgarr** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:31 am

LOL. Since you gave me your original set of seats, I'll be the one doing the hacking when I try to fit them in as extensions toward the bow.

Strangely enough, since I picked the seats up with the winches, there have been two more sets of the Merrimans that have come up on eBay.
Small world.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:52 pm

rbgarr wrote:LOL. Since you gave me your original set of seats, I'll be the one doing the hacking when I try to fit them in as extensions toward the bow.

Strangely enough, since I picked the seats up with the winches, there have been two more sets of the Merrimans that have come up on eBay.
Small world.

It seems like plenty of time to see some installation pictures.

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:05 am

The wood work so far is simply stunning. I never would have thought green masking tape could add such an appealing line to a boat... but it sure looks good!

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:50 pm

I just thought I would mention that usually wood boats have cabin corner pieces so that no end grain is exposed on either the cabin front or sides. End grain is where you will get rot, especially on something like this. It also functions as a finishing piece both inside and out.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:04 pm

Noah wrote:I just thought I would mention that usually wood boats have cabin corner pieces so that no end grain is exposed on either the cabin front or sides. End grain is where you will get rot, especially on something like this. It also functions as a finishing piece both inside and out.

Noah, what do you mean when you said "especially on something like this"?

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:24 pm

Sorry, didn't really mean anything special by that - just that this is a very special boat, and most of the classics that I have looked at have a corner piece for the cabin sides. They both give strength to the whole thing, and help seal the end grain. I'm sure it's not a big deal, but I thought I would chime in.

I couldn't find an exterior shot of my Hinckley cabin corner, but here is the piece on the inside which extends all the way through. Both the front and the sides of the cabin attach to this piece.

And here it is in the rear of the cabin:

And you can see the same piece on the exterior:

[/img]

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:36 pm

Thanks for the pictures Noah. I used to be a structural engineer and our motto (in jest) was "make it stout and get it out" so I appreciate your input. Funny things is that Tim brought this very topic up this morning during a call, which probably means the corners will be in tomorrows log :).

Cheers, Bill

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:23 pm

Just a quick thought on the location of the porta-potti since I see there are some options being debated.

I had a boat that hid the porta-potti under the cabin stairs and it worked out quite well. The stairs completely hid it when not in use and when it was needed the stairs flipped up providing some privacy from viewers in the cabin or on the next boat behind you.

I imagine an additional benefit is that there is tons of ventilation at that location so you shouldn't get a buildup of noticeable odors either.

Porta-potti's should defintely be something that are seen only when in use. Otherwise, they need to disapear completely.

-Britton

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:44 pm

bcooke wrote:Just a quick thought on the location of the porta-potti since I see there are some options being debated.

I had a boat that hid the porta-potti under the cabin stairs and it worked out quite well. The stairs completely hid it when not in use and when it was needed the stairs flipped up providing some privacy from viewers in the cabin or on the next boat behind you.

I imagine an additional benefit is that there is tons of ventilation at that location so you shouldn't get a buildup of noticeable odors either.

Porta-potti's should defintely be something that are seen only when in use. Otherwise, they need to disapear completely.

-Britton

Thanks Britton,

I didn't mind that much when the cabin profile was designed by the available elliptical ports but having to design the interior around the porta potti is frustrating. Thanks for sharing your experience on under stair storage. That is "probably" where we are headed. The only problem is that it is an awful big stair for such a small boat and it really shrinks the available cabin sole. Bill

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:47 pm

Hi Bill,

Was going through Yachtporn and saw an H28 with some snazzy interior lines, elliptical ports etc. Thought you might get a kick out of them:

Ad here: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... 74291&url=

On the portipotti front: Had a crappy idea (boo) I'm wondering if a custom holding tank could be built. Keep the attaching points on the tank... effectively the top inch or so of the waste tank, cut off the rest and mold a bilge shaped lower tank to it. No idea what the tanks are made of on those, but I bet theres a way to do it.

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:53 pm

I wondered how much of your design of the bolero concept has included some kind of cruising tent or cover to extend the interior space of your cabin. I could imagine a peaked tent attached under the boom with supports to extend the roof out to the gunnel. It seems that your are asking an awful lot of this poor cubby cabin. lounge, galley, lavatory, bedroom. Did you intend to cook? Maybe you could put the porta potty in the aft end of the cockpit. or off to the side under a cock pit seat. I imagine using the toilet under way at the companion way location might be tough for the passengers. Did you intend to use the toilet under way? At times there are consequences of initial decisions that lead one into design dead ends. My opinion (?) put a sink, camp stove platform, portable ice chest holder and a toilet in the cockpit under hatches, cover the forward end of the cockpit with a tent when at anchor. Leave the cubby as a sweet two person bedroom or a one man library/study

just my ideas. i love every thing so far. it seems as if the wire between your idea and reality is growing taught and beginning to sing.

r

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:18 am

Hey Robert,

Thanks for the creative thoughts. Your insight:

just my ideas. i love every thing so far. it seems as if the wire between your idea and reality is growing taught and beginning to sing

Is pretty accurate. Well actually we have been singing for most of this project. And yes I am asking alot from this little cuddy cabin. I do plan to have a boom tent / cockpit awning. My goals for the cabin are two sleeping bearths, sitting headroom for two and the porta pottie. So far we are two out of three. Part of the problem is that the whole boat is small. The addition of the cabin means that the cockpit is "comfortable" for two. In addition the tiller won't allow the pottie aft ... anyway you can get the picture. Tim's last post was a bit discouraging since this really is our last hurdle and things have gone perfectly so far. I am pondering, and definately entertaining ideas. I do have one crazy not great idea but it won't be easy.

Anyway more to come.

Thanks for the ideas. Please keep them coming.

Bill

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:26 am

Well after sleeping on this issue I woke up early and renewed my research on portable toilet solutions keeping in mind my simplicity concept. Well of course there are other options so the porta pottie is out. The cuddy cabin will return to its original concept of a place to have a cup of tea and warm up and to sleep in a handfull of nights each year.

Robert, thanks for the help refocusing my vision. It can can get blurry from time to time.

It's all down hill from here, well until the next issue arrives.

Cheers, bill

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:41 pm

Have you checked out - or given a thought to - the WAG bags system from Pett? You can use them either with or without their folding "seat." I've not used them myself, but have heard nothing but good reviews from those who have. I'm planning to order some at some point.

http://www.thepett.com/

Rachel

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:59 pm

roll on captain, roll on.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:14 pm

Yeah, I had a similar thought afterwards but you are already going in the same direction.

I was thinking that whoever shares your bunk has to be pretty comfortable with you in order to use the porta-potti in the middle of the night. I leave it to your imagination to figure out why.

-Britton

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:59 pm

Rachel wrote:Have you checked out - or given a thought to - the WAG bags system from Pett? You can use them either with or without their folding "seat." I've not used them myself, but have heard nothing but good reviews from those who have. I'm planning to order some at some point.

http://www.thepett.com/

Rachel

Ah Rachel. You must be clairvoyant. That is exactly the option that helped pitched the Porta Pottie over the side. Some times I think I must have researched everything to death and then I discover new solutions. Maybe it was your energy and Google helping me out.

I think this solution has great merit. It can be used in the cabin or the cockpit and it stores well. The best thing is that it isn't part of the boat 100% of the time. Only the amount of time needed.

Thanks for your input.

Bill

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:42 am

Oarlocks. Nice!

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:35 pm

I second that!

Genius in how they are mounted.

Bolero is looking beautiful!

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:28 pm

I'll let Tim take the credit for being a genius. Ideas are a dime a dozen, implentation is where genius gets to shine.

I will say that my last boat had the oar locks mounted on the coaming. It was a terrible solution. No where near strong enough and the oar handle was too close to the oar lock so there wasn't any leverage. I sketched up a concept, ordered the parts and shipped them to Tim with only a vague idea of how to achieve a strong mounting location near the toe rails (which didn't even exist then).

Tim has become very adept at cashing the design idea checks that I constantly write. I have to say that this is one of my favorites, although the anchor locker is pretty sweet. He is going to add a short length of brass on the coaming tops (for protection) and two mounting brackets below the side deck to complete rowing concept. I just can't convey how much nicer this should be than my last experience. I do need to learn how to row stnding up and facing forward however.

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:09 pm

Bill,

OK, Can you even sleep? If I had a boat looking like Bolero does now I would find it hard to concentrate on anything. I imagine you have been making the proper sacrifices and saying the right prayers to the freeway gods for the trip across the country. I'll bet every little river, stream, and lake Bolero passes will be envious that she is not staying on their waters when they see her go by.

Remember to eat.

r

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Robert... I have to echo that one.

She is beautiful. Those curves! The bow looks sharper than a knife!

Tim, that is one of the flattest prep jobs, and perfect paint jobs I've seen on anything. Good golly... need an apprentice? (Grin)

Zach (Wiping up some drool...)

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:25 am

It also appears that I am settled into my original color bias of dark blue. The deck are looking to be beige with white accents.

I like a white boat for practical reasons, but the blue is just stunning!

I know I told you before that you have a nice boat.....ok - I just did again.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:28 pm

Bill,

OK, Can you even sleep? If I had a boat looking like Bolero does now I would find it hard to concentrate on anything. I imagine you have been making the proper sacrifices and saying the right prayers to the freeway gods for the trip across the country. I'll bet every little river, stream, and lake Bolero passes will be envious that she is not staying on their waters when they see her go by.

Remember to eat.

r

Well it's not quite like I remember Christmas being as a child... but it is close. My routine has been to get up early and read Tim's morning logs with my coffee. I do admit to having gotten up a bit too early at times and had to wait for my reading (no easy feat with Tim's early schedule and the three hour time change).

I don't even want to think about worrying about the cross country trip. It will probably all hit me at once. First the incredible excitement of completion and shipping and then the worry and dread.

No problem with the eating. I just don't ever get that excited or worried :).

I like a white boat for practical reasons, but the blue is just stunning!

I know I told you before that you have a nice boat.....ok - I just did again.

Well lucky for us there is just nothing practical about this project. And thanks we are really loving the new blue paint as well.

I do have to say that I am ready for the construction part of this project to be over. I love thinking and talking about sailboats but mostly I really love sailing. I have a real need to know if my best vision of pure sailing joy measures up.

I know... patience, patience...

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:05 pm

Oh come on! Tim has had the pictures up since this morning and no one has updated this thread???

Stunning.

Wow.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:15 pm

I just checked in at lunchtime.

Nice work. Nice boat.

I want one.

I hope we get pictures in the water with the mast stepped too ;-)

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:23 pm

Wow!! Nice boat and nice work.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:40 am

Bill,
Awesome boat ... beautiful in design and execution!
Tim's work really shines. I look forward to seeing her in Fisherman Bay.

heartofgold · Post by **heartofgold** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:29 am

Amazing job! I have, like all of you, been following this one from day one. I can hardly imagine seeing a prettier boat on the water, and we already know she is a great sailer.

All the pictures are terriffic, but I like this one best. More than any other, it really accentuates the boat's lines, while showing off that huge clean deck.

Bluenose · Post by **Bluenose** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:05 am

I want one.

Well git your own cause you can't have this one. I am starting to worry about getting Bolero out of Tim's hands so I don't need to worry about you as well.

I hope we get pictures in the water with the mast stepped too ;-)

I pretty sure I can handle that request. Although think more in terms of a "photo spread"

Awesome boat ... beautiful in design and execution!
Tim's work really shines. I look forward to seeing her in Fisherman Bay.

I am still quite surprise at how stunned I am by Tim's work knowing all along I was going to be stunned. He is the heart and soul of this project and the artistry and ideals that he brings to his work are quite rare in my experience.

Many steps in this project were "impossible" right up until Tim's found a way to get them done. I have been a royal pain in arse many times refusing to give an inch to anything that changed the vision that Bolero has become. All along Tim has shared this vision and his sense of aesthetics are impeccable. I always chuckled to myself when Tim would tell me that he would do anything I liked (even if it was ugly). I hope that he didn't but I always doubted he would really would. And of course the striping decisions weren't open for discussion :).

I guess what I am trying to say is Thank You Tim Lackey. Nice Job! I mean stunning Job! Dang, words just don't work here.

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:55 am

Bill,

That's one gorgeous boat. I wish the you fair winds for many years to come.

Tim,

Beautiful work, as always. Congratulations.

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:08 pm

WOW!

Drool...

Bryon

Triton106 · Post by **Triton106** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:38 pm

Just when you think Tim cannot improve upon perfection he proves your assumption wrong again... The hardest thing to do is to resist my urge to want one for myself even though I cannot afford it...

Plastic Classic Forum

Bolero Concept

Assymetric on a Shields

hacking

Re: hacking

WOW