Britton's Triton #680 currently named "Prudence"

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:50 am

Tim wrote:
bcooke wrote:I think I think too much...
Overthinking parts of the project can be a killer. It's better to just dive in and get things done; even the toughest challenge seems less so once you're actually involved in the process, while it may have seemed insurmountable during those long, dark, cold winter days of thought. I always obsess over the anticipation of one part of a project or another, only to find that once I get into it, it flows smoothly and the way to success makes itself clear as you go.

Developing an improved intuitive sense of balance between quicker and better is one of the greatest attractions to boat keeping for me. In my case, I answer only to myself WRT how I spend my limited boat time and I am the only critic of the result that matters! This has created a perfect gymnasium for improving this essential skill...

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:10 pm

It's better to just dive in and get things done

Very true. I just obsess about finishing up that last bit and then wishing I had made few changes. I guess that is why I need to be thinking about my next boat project :-)

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:29 pm

I just thought I would share a picture of some recent works of art that I picked up at the local welder's.

These are from left to right:

A waste tank going just forward of the portside bulkhead in the V-berth area.
A water tank for the bilge under the cabin sole.
A water tank that duplicates the original Triton V-berth water tank.

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:21 pm

bcooke wrote:I just thought I would share a picture of some recent works of art that I picked up at the local welder's.

I think I said this in another thread, but just to reiterate...

I hate you.

;-D

Post by **Tim** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:38 pm

I like how artfully arranged the pieces are. A sort of metallic Stonehenge. (But taller than 18"...)

Can you stand to bury those in your bilge where they'll never be seen again?

Are we all total losers for thinking that those metal contraptions are beautiful and very cool?

Nice work. Can you please repeat the name of the builder? I'm sure it's in a thread somewhere, but it belongs here next to the photo.

Post by **dasein668** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:52 pm

Hey, one of those isn't a fuel tank. (how's that for fractured English?) I'm sure I should know what you decided about fuel, but we've all gone round and round so many times I'm dizzy...

A30_John · Post by **A30_John** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:54 pm

Niiiicccce tanks Britton...

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:01 pm

Sweet!

I suppose you're going to tell us that they're baffled and everything.

Now why don't I have friends in the stainless fabrication business...

Thanks for the pic!

--- Rachel

PS Where is your snow?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:35 pm

I think I said this in another thread, but just to reiterate...

I hate you

Actually, you said it in a private email :-)

A sort of metallic Stonehenge. (But taller than 18"...)

Hehe. Even I get this one!

Are we all total losers for thinking that those metal contraptions are beautiful and very cool?

Perhaps. I rushed home to post this picture as soon as I could. That makes me a Master Loser I think.

Can you stand to bury those in your bilge where they'll never be seen again?

I may have to re-think my interior and add some removable panels so I can gaze at them more often. I have already been down to my basement twice just to look at them again!

The builder was a small welding shop, "Wilson Welding" owned by Dan Wilson who has been making stainless steel and aluminum tanks for forever. He has a great reputation in the local area, he builds a lot of tanks for the commercial boatbuilders and I can attest that he was great to work with. This guy knows what he is doing.
Dan's phone number is (978)-462-9764 and his address is:
124 Bridge Road (Rte 1)
Salisbury, MA 01952

No, Nathan, you are correct. There isn't a fuel tank in the photo. Dan wouldn't build a gas tank with fittings on the side and I hear the Coast Guard doesn't like the idea either. If I had put the fittings on the top of the tank then I would have had to lower the tank height by several inches which brought the tank capacity from 26 gallons down to 18 or so. For now, I am going to leave my gas can in the starboard locker. As much as I hate the idea, I am starting to get used to it. Like you said, I was getting dizzy going around and around with the possibilities when in the end I couldn't do much better than Pearson. I also considered a tank under the cockpit but I found out I can't get a decent sized one in with the engine in place. The good news is that my two water tanks (bilge and original V-berth location) give me a 55 gallon water capacity with room over the V-berth tank for another ten gallons in jugs or bladder tanks if I really need it.

In your case (diesel), you could use the bilge tank for fuel with the fittings on the end. When I think of the motoring range you would have with 26 gallons of fuel and the empty starboard locker then I can really see myself hating you!

No baffles. With fuel, that would be a good idea so as not to interrupt the supply during rough conditions. With water, I don't see it as a problem. The bilge tank is so narrow that I don't think it will be a problem at all and the V-berth tank... well, I never heard of the original setup (un-baffled) as having any adverse effects on the boat. I will just have to anchor the tanks in well.

PS Where is your snow?

You must have left your back door open. 3 days of 50-60 degree weather with rain. Tomorrow it is going back to the 30's.

Now why don't I have friends in the stainless fabrication business...

You do. Or you would if you were to leave a signed blank check with your local welder ;-)

Oh, and I will keep the plywood mock-ups and drawings for now in case someone else wants to test fit them. Nathan?...

Post by **dasein668** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:48 pm

bcooke wrote:Oh, and I will keep the plywood mock-ups and drawings for now in case someone else wants to test fit them. Nathan?...

Quite possibly. Especially that bilge water/diesel tank. Can I ask? How much?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:55 pm

Baffles... You would have to say that wouldn't you... I decided I didn't need them and there you go making me wonder again. Shame on you :-)

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:57 pm

hmmmmm my water tank, presumed to be original, does have a fore-and-aft baffle.

I don't think it's at all necessary, I'm just stirring the soup.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:23 pm

Thanks Nathan, I was (barely) refraining from asking :-)

This may be a moot point now, but when Britton mentioned the fact that top-fills would reduce his tank capacity, it reminded me of the tank set up on a boat I used to sail.

Basically, a notch was taken out of the top of the tank at one end, and the fillers came up there. Perhaps that's a no-no (?)

Darn, I tried to sketch what I'm talking about but I couldn't figure out how to get it to show here. Rats.

--- Rachel

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:29 pm

I don't have the knowledge to say whether or not those tanks would need baffles, structurally speaking (although you'd think your fabricator would have mentioned it if they did), but I know that one thing that can be very annoying is to have a sea berth over an unbaffled tank, and then have to listen to the water sloshing around while you try to sleep.

But, since your big tanks aren't in places you'd be sleeping directly above while underway, it shouldn't be an issue.

There were two 35 gallon bilge water tanks (similar in shape to yours) under the main cabin sole on the Westsail; they were poly tanks, so unbaffled. Even though the least little noise makes me crazy on the off-watch - and I *always* have to seek-and-silence :-) - I never noticed any sloshing coming from the tanks. And that boat did like to roll.

--- Rachel

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:45 am

Baffles on the original? I will have to check mine. I don't think I ever looked inside. BTW, does an orginal tank have any marketable value or should I hang it on the wall?

Rachel wrote:Basically, a notch was taken out of the top of the tank at one end, and the fillers came up there. Perhaps that's a no-no (?)

I think the point of having the connections on the top is that the fluid level will always be below the fittings so that a failure of the fitting would not cause a ... problem. In the case of notches, the fuel level could be above the fittings so a leak could prove messy to say the least. Now we are only talking gasoline here where a little leak can produce a lot of fumes with which to light up ones life quite dramatically. Diesel doesn't have that tendency.

Can I ask? How much?

Well, frankly, I am a bit embarrassed to say. The project costs just kept getting bigger little by little. If you ask again I will tell you but make sure you really want to know. Now if you want that bilge tank for diesel then it could be made out of aluminum and I got an off-the-cuff estimate for that of around $300-350. That is what I was expecting when I walked in with my plans for the three tanks. It just kind of grew from there.

Here is a hint. Tim's fancy new boom on Glissandowas a bit cheaper than my three tanks combined.

A wise man once said, "What the boat wants, the boat gets. Live it. Love it".

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:52 am

I couldn't stand the suspense so I ran down into the basement in my stocking feet to check.

Yes, my original water tank does have a baffle in it. It is tough to see but it runs the length fore and aft and is about 6 inches deep (the whole tank is about 19 inches deep at the aft end- 11 inches at the front).

My next set of tanks will have baffles then...

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:56 am

Now if you want that bilge tank for diesel then it could be made out of aluminum ...

You know what? I think I lied. I have a distant memory that says something about not using aluminum with diesel fuel. Or is it that aluminum shouldn't be used with water? (I know that is true). I can't remember. Aluminum for gas is okay... I think.

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:58 am

bcooke wrote:I have a distant memory that says something about not using aluminum with diesel fuel.

Aluminum (5052 alloy) is a common and nearly ubiquitous material for diesel fuel tanks on boats.

bcooke wrote:...does an orginal tank have any marketable value or should I hang it on the wall?

Well, it shouldn't. But in the Triton community, you never know.

I hate to Monday-morning quarterback, but I think the v-berth water tank would have been better with a baffle. You'll be OK without them, so I wouldn't lose sleep over it. However, there's a significant amount of free surface potential there, given the width of the tank at partially-filled levels. We're not talking enough to be dangerous, as in an unbaffled cargo tank on an oil tanker, for example, but it could (could) lead to unforeseen issues someday, perhaps something like the tank becoming loose over time, or that sort of silliness. But what's done is done. The narrow bilge tank is fine without baffles, though one or two transverse baffles couldn't have hurt just for fun.

The holding tank shouldn't contain baffles for obvious reasons, so you're all set there.

If you build a fuel tank, it should definitely be baffled, I think, to minimize fuel sloshing that will stir up debris in the tank. But you said this already.

bcooke wrote:I also considered a tank under the cockpit but I found out I can't get a decent sized one in with the engine in place.

As stripped as your boat is, I can't believe you'd let a little thing like this prevent you from truly considering a tank in that wasted space under the cockpit. I'd yank that engine in a pair of seconds to get a tank in there, if I were you. It's the perfect place, and there's room for a decent-sized tank if it were custom-fit to the space. There's even the opportunity for every fuel tank wannabe's dream: a true tank sump with drain, where all the gunk can collect well below the fuel pickup tube.

Now, if your budget is well beyond busted and that's the real reason, then I understand. One must have limits, mustn't one.

bcooke wrote:
Can I ask? How much?
Well, frankly, I am a bit embarrassed to say. The project costs just kept getting bigger little by little. If you ask again I will tell you but make sure you really want to know. Now if you want that bilge tank for diesel then it could be made out of aluminum and I got an off-the-cuff estimate for that of around $300-350. That is what I was expecting when I walked in with my plans for the three tanks. It just kind of grew from there.

Here is a hint. Tim's fancy new boom on Glissando was a bit cheaper than my three tanks combined.

Sneaky...so you're going to make people frantically try to dig up the thread where I divulged my boom price, just so you can remain modest about your own expenditures.

My boom cost $1500.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:36 am

Tim wrote:As stripped as your boat is, I can't believe you'd let a little thing like this prevent you from truly considering a tank in that wasted space under the cockpit. I'd yank that engine in a pair of seconds to get a tank in there, if I were you

You are right of course. I made the decision to put off a fuel tank replacement before I decided to strip the boat and I just never re-visited that thought. If removing the engine is as easy as everyone says it is then that is the only logical alternative. I guess it is back to the drawing boards... <sigh> and the bank. Thanks Tim :-)

If you build a fuel tank, it should definitely be baffled, I think, to minimize fuel sloshing that will stir up debris in the tank. But you said this already.

Now, maybe you are talking with more experience or maybe we are talking about the ideal installation but doesn't Glissando have an un-baffled fuel tank? I would be tempted to just follow your route there. Designing, mocking up, getting all the details right and communicating them all accurately to the fabricator is a lot of work, not to mention expensive and stressful. Just think of all the things to forget and get wrong and the potential to have regrets for a very long time (baffles?...) Then again that is what this boat rebuilding process is all about. The joy of victory, the agony of defeat, and everything in between.

Okay, I won't lose sleep over the baffle thing but I am going to think about it a little for the next 20 years or so... and I will over build the tank mounting. I am good at over-building.

And I am pretty sure you never divulged the cost of the boom on the forum despite my hints. I found out through a PM. I think I could have paid a little less but I kinda shot myself in the foot. I was having a hard time getting an estimate from the shop. I would call and they would say "they will have it by the end of the week" and then I wouldn't hear back from them. In fairness I am a pretty small customer for them and the tanks, particularly the bilge tank, were full of odd angles and measurements in an attempt to maximize capacity. I figured they were under the impression that I was a typical cheap old boat owner and that as soon as I heard the estimate that I would run away screaming about how expensive they are to everyone I knew. To correct this "problem" I casually mentioned that I expected the estimate to be in the $1000-1500 range, thinking at the time that I was signaling that I was serious. Of course, in reality, I was signally that I was a sucker with a big expense account. I got an estimate in two days for $1700 and I was at the shop the next morning with a $700 deposit and my mockups so they could get started. So my plan worked after a fashion but I didn't get a deal... I don't think. Without a local competitor I don't know what these tanks are really worth. For good tanks that will last the lifetime of the boat and to keep the project moving they were worth quite a bit. Once I saw the tanks the pain already started to fade. What is 80 pounds of stainless material and three days of skilled welding labor worth these days?

I read on Allen's Kaholee website last week (where is he these days?...) that he had 2 large SS tanks in the V-berth for 96 gallons of water storage. Maybe we could compare costs.

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:03 am

bcooke wrote:I got an estimate in two days for $1700 and I was at the shop the next morning with a $700 deposit and my mockups so they could get started.

Ouch.

They do look niiiice though!

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:05 am

Tim wrote:
bcooke wrote:I also considered a tank under the cockpit but I found out I can't get a decent sized one in with the engine in place.
As stripped as your boat is, I can't believe you'd let a little thing like this prevent you from truly considering a tank in that wasted space under the cockpit. I'd yank that engine in a pair of seconds to get a tank in there, if I were you. It's the perfect place, and there's room for a decent-sized tank if it were custom-fit to the space. There's even the opportunity for every fuel tank wannabe's dream: a true tank sump with drain, where all the gunk can collect well below the fuel pickup tube.

I'll second Tim's thoughts on that one. In fact, I'll go so far as to volunteer my a4-moving "expertise" and labor if that gets you off the fence. :)

Post by **Tim** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:25 pm

bcooke wrote:Now, maybe you are talking with more experience or maybe we are talking about the ideal installation but doesn't Glissando have an un-baffled fuel tank? I would be tempted to just follow your route there.

Yes, she does have an unbaffled tank, but it is not something I would ever do again--particularly not if having a custom tank made. Please do not follow my lead. We all continue learning. My tank is only unbaffled because it's a pre-manufactured poly tank.

I never let the tank go below 1/2 level, as I fear that the wide, shallow tank would then be able to slosh enough to allow the pickup to draw air. So I keep her topped up. Baffling would help, but not eliminate this problem in my case.

My fear is a combination of the lack of baffling and the fact that the tank is 9" deep and something like 4-5' across, for a large free surface effect when 1/2 full or less. I haven't yet had trouble with debris, but I'm thinking that it's time to drain and clean the tank as a preventive measure.

bcooke wrote:Designing, mocking up, getting all the details right and communicating them all accurately to the fabricator is a lot of work, not to mention expensive and stressful.

Sure it is. But in the end, your boat is only as good as her underlying systems (and structure, of course). Assuming you only want to do these projects once on this boat, then take advantage of the situation now and ensure that your fuel system is everything you wish it to be. You'll never regret the effort and expenditure later, but you might be sorry if you didn't go for the gold.

bcooke wrote:And I am pretty sure you never divulged the cost of the boom on the forum despite my hints. I found out through a PM.

Well, now the whole world knows. Last of the big spenders here.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:25 pm

Figment wrote:Tim wrote:

bcooke wrote:
I also considered a tank under the cockpit but I found out I can't get a decent sized one in with the engine in place.

As stripped as your boat is, I can't believe you'd let a little thing like this prevent you from truly considering a tank in that wasted space under the cockpit. I'd yank that engine in a pair of seconds to get a tank in there, if I were you. It's the perfect place, and there's room for a decent-sized tank if it were custom-fit to the space. There's even the opportunity for every fuel tank wannabe's dream: a true tank sump with drain, where all the gunk can collect well below the fuel pickup tube.

I'll second Tim's thoughts on that one. In fact, I'll go so far as to volunteer my a4-moving "expertise" and labor if that gets you off the fence. :)

Hey, don't you have a boat to paint, mistah?

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:19 pm

Notice I didn't say WHEN I'd volunteer!

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:49 pm

Thanks for the offer Mike. I will be in touch. I have a couple of years of work scheduled so I am not too rushed. It would be a good idea to sort out the fuel tank before I get the galley installed though. Once the galley goes in that monel starboard locker tank is really stuck. It is in pretty good condition (I had it out last year for new fittings,prime and paint and re-attachment) and I would hate to have to cut it up into little pieces to remove it.

I guess this means I need to figure out a new shifting arrangement for the A4 as the current original configuration occupies the same area under the cockpit as the fuel tank would. Do the puzzles and inter-connections never end?! It is like trying to stop up gopher holes. Fill one and three more pop up.

I need to get back to the boat and take a fresh look under the cockpit but my sense is that even a custom tank is going to be rather long and wide. Maybe more of a reverse V-berth tank than a flat shallow rectangle so it would be an improvement but still not ideal. I also need to ensure some real capacity as I burn twice what your teetotalling diesels do.

Nathan wrote:Ouch.

Yeah, it hurt but I console myself by remembering that a realistic budget for a complete rebuild of a 30' sailboat is probably something like $40k so my tanks are only a small part of that. I was just looking at all the little bits of plumbing fittings and hoses and pumps and such and realized I could easily drop another thousand or so in miscellaneous plumbing before I called the system done.

I also had a chat with a boatbuilder this morning over coffee (rough life I live) and he brought up the fact that with my big access hatches in the water tanks I could easily fabricate some effective baffles and bolt/rivet/seal them in if I decided I really need them. If nothing else he made me feel better (after telling me I was stupid not to insist on them in the first place.)

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:03 pm

You'll never regret the effort and expenditure later, but you might be sorry if you didn't go for the gold.

This is the logic that keeps me eating beans and rice while spending thousands on boat parts.

I sure hope you are right :-)

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:56 pm

It works for me. I always feel that it's best to spend the money up front when it ensures trouble-free service down the road. Your results may vary.

Fortunately, I've already been exonerated from all past, present, and future blame.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:59 pm

bcooke wrote:I console myself by remembering that a realistic budget for a complete rebuild of a 30' sailboat is probably something like $40k so my tanks are only a small part of that. I was just looking at all the little bits of plumbing fittings and hoses and pumps and such and realized I could easily drop another thousand or so in miscellaneous plumbing before I called the system done.

Those little thousands add up awfully quickly.

bcooke wrote:Do the puzzles and inter-connections never end?!

Only if you are willing to compromise.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:52 pm

I never liked the placement of the fuel tank in the starboard locker but I kinda got used to it. The area under the cockpit seems like the ideal place for a fuel tank but when snooping around it doesn't seem like you could get much capacity in there.

Life would be much simpler to leave the fuel tank alone except that Tim would never let me hear the end of it so I thought I would take some measurements so that I could convincingly tell him that it simply wasn't possible to put a decent sized tank under the cockpit. My personal cutoff was 15 gallons. Any less and it just isn't worth it. So I took some measurements and did some calculating...

It turns out that even being conservative I can muster 15 gallons and several more if I widen the tank into the bottom of the cockpit lockers.

Thanks Tim :-P

-Britton

P.S. My one year old tabbing was much harder to remove than Pearson's 39 year old tabbing. Anyone want to buy a genuine Pearson Triton monel fuel tank in great condition?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:53 pm

P.P.S.

When does "fixing up an old boat" turn into "building a new boat using a previously built hull and deck?

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:06 pm

pffffffff. black bottom. pffffffff.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:09 pm

pffffffff. black bottom. pffffffff.

Hey!, it kept you from commenting on the ugly hull color so it has done its job. Don't worry. It won't be black at my next launching. I am just too sensitive to put up with this group's comments.

-Britton

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:49 pm

Britton,

Perhaps there's some reason you've already discounted this idea (and even told me why, but I can't quite remember now), but how about the one where folks simply (heh, that word is so easy to type) push the fuel tank forward a bit to where it clears the cockpit locker and then takes a bit of space from the aft-under-galley area. I thought it looked pretty slick.

Here's a link to the whole photo-story of #577's tank relocation on the Triton MIR:

http://www.tritonclass.org/mir/577fueltank.html

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:17 pm

Shifting the tank forward isn't a bad idea but custom building a tank under the un-used cockpit sole is even better IMHO.

Moving the tank forward is, as you say, quite easy and could be done in an afternoon. However, bringing the tank into the galley means you lose some storage under the galley that could perhaps be better used for storing something else, say pots and pans, though I will probably add a small engine start battery in that general area too. Plus, you lose the deep storage just forward of the standard cockpit lockers. Plus you still have the variable weight unevenly distributed on the starboard side. I also just felt plain funny about cooking my dinner over a 23 gallon gasoline tank but I am not sure why.

The area under the cockpit sole would be pretty hard to utilize effectively so the custom fuel tank idea is all good with no bad tradeoffs- unless you consider having to redesign the transmission shifting system and the overall cost of the project as bad.

As a final plus, putting the fuel tank under the cockpit sole is how Carl drew the Triton in the first place. I think Carl knew what he was doing...

-Britton

Rigel · Post by **Rigel** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:52 pm

My Triton has the original tank glassed to the cockpit sole. Fits the space under the cockpit very well.

No room for the Bomar hatch in the forward part of the cockpit, though.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:31 am

Yes, I heard the West-coasties went with the fuel tank under the cockpit. I had never seen one before though. Thanks for the pic.

I couldn't live without my Bomar so my tank needs to remain behind it.

Of course the Bomar is there so that I can access the packing gland and the rear side of the engine. Does this mean you access the packing gland by ...<gulp>... slithering over the engine (I read about that somewhere)?

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:39 am

Oh, and what is the capacity of your tank?

I was thinking I can get a tank 20-22" deep from the hump where the rudder shaft comes up to about 2 inches into my hatch. That way I can have the outlet come up into the hatch area and makes a convenient spot for a tank shutoff valve without cutting into my clear shot to the shaft seal. Another nice thing about the location is that the carburetor is only 2 feet away. Throw in a filter just behind the engine (easily accesible with the hatch) and the whole fuel system is tidy and compact. Enough to warm the heart of the darkest mechanic.

And one last thing, where is your tank outlet?

-B.

Rigel · Post by **Rigel** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:36 am

Britton, outlet is on top directly aft of the fill hose that you see in the upper right corner of the photo. Currently disconnected and capped off.

Recently rejuvenated my A4 from the grave. Running it off a portable fuel tank. Guaranteed fresh fuel. Here is what I did to bring it back.

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616

Back to the tank...Capacity unknown. Heading to the marina tonight, so I will take some measurements and a few more photos.

Dave