Used Headsails

This is the place for information on the important systems on your boat, including sails, rigging, engines (if applicable), and other systems.
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Bob Lascelles
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:32 pm
Boat Name: English Muffin 2
Boat Type: Pearson Electra
Location: York Harbor, ME

Used Headsails

Post by Bob Lascelles »

Hi,

I'm looking for some used sail buying advice. The last time I bought a sail (that didn't come with a boat) it was a long time ago and the sail was new and made for the boat .

This time I'm looking to replace the jib on a 23' Pearson Electra. The luff on the jib that came with the boat is much shorter than the dimension for the Electra mast head rig (I=26.5' J=8.6'). The sail I have has a luff of about 23' and is about worn to kleenex thickness. I don't know if the sail is an Electra jib or was from some other boat, it looks pretty small compared to the main and has the clew cut quite high. Since I'm on a budget, I was thinking about buying a used sail. I haven't been able to find the original dimensions for an Electra jib, however a used sail broker's website recommends Etchell jibs (25'10" luff x 8' foot x 24' leech) as a possible substitute for an Electra @ 94%. There's a big selection of used Etchells jibs on the internet, and the luff is about right for the rig, the clew is cut much lower than the sail I have now, so the leech must be longer. From the pictures I've seen of Etchells it looks like the foot of their jibs are about parallel to the deck. I'm thinking of giving one of them a try, the worst case being it may have t have the foot angle changed. Am I missing something?

Thanks for any advice.

Bob
Hirilondë
Master of the Arcane
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:50 am
Boat Name: Hirilondë
Boat Type: 1967 Pearson Renegade
Location: Charlestown, RI

Re: Used Headsails

Post by Hirilondë »

I would think the sail plan is nearly identical to that of an Ensign.

edit: found this:
http://www.pieliminations.com/Jollytime/index.htm
Dave Finnegan
builder of Spindrift 9N #521 'Wingë'
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Gresham’s Law of information: Bad information drives out good. No matter how long ago a correction for a particular error may have appeared in print or online, it never seems to catch up with the ever-widening distribution of the error.
bhartley
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:13 pm
Boat Name: Ariel Pyxis
Boat Type: Sea Sprite 23 Cape Dory 25D
Location: Wolfskin Georgia

Re: Used Headsails

Post by bhartley »

I have used this database before to compare dimensions: http://www.jibslist.com/

You can use the measurements from the Jibslist to check places like Bacon's too.

Wonderful boat! Enjoy her.

Bly
Bob Lascelles
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:32 pm
Boat Name: English Muffin 2
Boat Type: Pearson Electra
Location: York Harbor, ME

Re: Used Headsails

Post by Bob Lascelles »

Thanks Dave & Bly,

I checked the websites out and it looks like the Etchell's jib will fit my boat, so I'm going to give one a try. It looks like you can get a good condition sail for about $200-$250. I found out the Electra was introduced before the Ensign, it has the same hull, but uses a mast head rig instead of the Ensign's fractional rig and actually has a little longer J dimension than the Ensign. Actually, now that I think about it I'll bet the jib I probably fits an Ensign.

Thanks for your helpful links. I've been sailing her as she is the past month and I agree, she's really a sweet boat. I've got a couple of years of work ahead to get her in good condition, but I think it's going to be worth it.



Bob
forrest
Deck Grunge Scrubber
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:24 pm
Boat Name: Ophelia
Boat Type: Pearson Renegade
Location: Bellingham, Washington

Re: Used Headsails

Post by forrest »

I was recently talking to a friend about this very thing and he told me to be aware that one cannot expect to get a whole lot of life out of an Etchells racing sail. Most of those boats go through sails every season and my understanding is that the sails are generally designed to be replaced at that interval. So though a used sail may still have a good crinkle to them, you will probably have a blown out sail in a couple seasons

Great boat, enjoy.

Forrest
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
Posts: 2845
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
Boat Name: Triton
Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
Location: L.I. Sound

Re: Used Headsails

Post by Figment »

A sail, for a given weight, is built the way it's built regardless if it's a "racing" sail or a "cruising" sail. Racers replace their sails with greater frequency because they have less tolerance for degradation, and probably also because they use them a lot more, but not because they're made to be disposable.

Granted, an etchells sail with one or two seasons' use has seen quite a bit of action in that time and probably has lost half of its useful cruising life, but the price is generally far less than half of the new.
Bob Lascelles
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:32 pm
Boat Name: English Muffin 2
Boat Type: Pearson Electra
Location: York Harbor, ME

Re: Used Headsails

Post by Bob Lascelles »

Thanks for the additional thoughts on the Etchells' jib. I decided to go ahead and order one from Bacon Sails in Annapolis, MD. They were very helpful, explaining the difference between snap tabs and regular hanks and there formula for sail condition. The one I ordered is made of a fairly light 5 oz cloth, but I'm pretty sure that's the weight cloth called for by the Ensign class rules for the jib and the two boats are similar. The sail I picked was graded as "good", it has a window and was offered for $125.00. If it fits OK, I figure even if I only get a couple of seasons, it will be a good deal. They have a return policy that gives you 10 days to run the sail up and see if it fits the boat OK, which seems very fair. I'll let you know how it works out before the season ends. I

Bob
mitiempo
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Boat Name: Mi Tiempo
Boat Type: Canadian Sailcraft CS27
Location: victoria bc canada

Re: Used Headsails

Post by mitiempo »

Here's another link for sail dimensions for any boat.
http://www.sailboatrigdimensions.com/
It shows the I at 26.5 and the J at 8.58 for the Electra
Bob Lascelles
Bottom Paint Application Technician
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:32 pm
Boat Name: English Muffin 2
Boat Type: Pearson Electra
Location: York Harbor, ME

Re: Used Headsails

Post by Bob Lascelles »

Thanks for the link, it will be helpful the next time I go sail shopping. The measurements shown are about what I was told. Friday, I received the used Etchells jib that I ordered from Bacon Sails. It came rolled up in a bag and is as stiff as a board. I don't think it could be flaked very easily and stuffed in a regular sail bag, but It's really in good condition, all of the stitching looks great. Just as they said, it has luff tabs and snaps (instead of hanks) and some of the snaps are sticky. It was listed as having 25'10" luff x 8' foot and when I ran it up, it fits the fore stay perfectly, so I'd say the 26.5 listed in the link you sent is about right. I'm not sure I'm going to be really happy with the tabs/snaps, but the sheet lead looks good to me. I'm hoping to get to use it later this the week.

Thanks

Bob
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