Single Fuel for Simplicity

[triton318]

I'm not sure if this was the best forum for this post, but it didn't seem to fit anywhere else.

In three or four years I plan to take off on some extended cruising aboard my Triton. Between now and then, I'm going to be doing some modifications and work to Dove. I plan to go very simple (Pardey-like). One thing I'm doing is trying to figure out if I can use one fuel for both cooking and lighting.

First, I should say Dove no longer has an inboard engine and never will again. Currently I'm using a 9.8 HP Nissan outboard on a bracket. When I leave, there will be a windvane in that spot. I will use either oars (two or one sculling oar) and/or a smaller outboard on a stern bracket off-center when I need to move and there's no wind.

I will have a couple of 12v electric lights in the cabin, but plan also to use oil lamps. For cooking (which will be very simple, as I really don't like to cook), I was thinking of a single burner, gimballed stove.

I would love to be able to use the same fuel for both the stove and the lamps. I would like to have a small, metal tank to hold this fuel that could be filled from an on-deck fill fitting, and from which I could fill lamps and the stove using gravity and a spigot.

Is kerosene the fuel for this? Can you burn kerosene in an oil lamp? I'm thinking you probably can. Aren't there small, pressurized stoves that use kerosene? Does anyone have any knowledge of this topic?

Thanks!

[bcooke]

I think kerosene in an oil lamp is going to make your eyes sting a bit. It will work but at the low temperatures of the lamp it isn't going to burn very clean and there will be some by-products dumped into the air. Lamp oil works in the stove too but it will be a lot more expensive.

Pressurized kerosene is definitely an option. It is a dated option but still an option. James Baldwin has a great gimbaled pressurized kerosene stove on his website. Propane is becoming more and more available worldwide and it is MUCH nicer to cook with.

When the Pardey's outfitted Taleisin they opted for a propane stove and oil lamps. This was in 1983. (The Capable Cruiser, page 164) I have a vague recollection that Lin wrote something about making different choices for cabin lighting if they were to outfit a boat today. 12v lights today have come a long ways as far as reducing consumption. I know I have powered all my interior lights, radios and cell phone off of a single solar panel all summer without the option of charging via the alternator.

I have gone the ultra simple route. My last boat was named Simplicity as I did my own Thoreau-like experiment. One thing I found though was that you could simplify beyond the point of any real gain. Stocking two different types of fuel on board is not that much of a problem and the benefits to a little added complexity are huge (at first anyway). For me, electric lights was definitely the way to go. They are a huge luxury after living with oil lamps for awhile.

-Britton

[Ganges #363]

Pressurized kerosene stoves do a good job...when they're working. But they often have problems with clogged burner jets, and (in the ones I'm familiar with) you have to prime them with alcohol, so you're back to more than one fuel. They also can be hard to control when starting and can produce a 'flare up', with pressurized flame shooting toward the overhead.

Alcohol is frequently criticized for not producing enough BTUs for its cost, but the Origo non-pressurized alcohol stove is becoming more and more popular. There are several models, from one burner to several burners, counter top and drop in. I know of a Cal 40 that has done several TransPac races that uses an Origo. For long distance, long term cruising alcohol might bring challenges in supply and consumption. But if you're planning a rather light use of your stove, non-pressurized alcohol would be simple and easy.

Oil lamps add a lot to the cabin, a nice soft light and it's surprising how just one lamp can take the chill off. But unless you use a pressurized lamp, it's not going to be bright enough to really help you do something. And burning lamp oil is a must.

Britton...what kind of 12 volt interior lights do you use?

-Bill

[Hirilondë]

I'm not so sure I would go so simple as to avoid using electricity for lighting, but there is something to be said for simplicity.

I agree with Brook on the 2 fuels is still simple but better train of thought. Kerosene is probably the only liquid fuel you can carry that does it all, but used daily it will prove quite dirty and smelly. This smell might be romantic on an eighteenth century frigate, but I doubt it will seem so on your Triton.

I have the exact Origo stove that Bill describes and I like it a lot. It is simple, it is quite safe and burns quite clean. The only real downsides to alcohol are that it doesn't burn really hot and the fuel/BTU ratio isn't great. It isn't the best stove for sautee or stir-fry as it doesn't get hot enough. I would definitely suggest it as a possible choice for your trip though, especially considering your comments on cooking.

If you want efficiency then white gas is probably the way to go for cooking. It is the lowest weight per BTU you can carry. That is why packbackers choose it hands down over all other fuels. I sometimes carry my Svea 123 white gas backpacking stove on my boat as a 3rd burner or for sautee.

Considering how you describe your priorities, I will recommend alcohol and paraffin (lamp oil). When you get to the Caribbean you can go to the local rum distillery and ask for 5 gallons of head alcohol (the skimmings off the tops of the vats). It works quite well in stoves. And it smells good :)

[bcooke]

Britton...what kind of 12 volt interior lights do you use?

My current boat doesn't have lights. When it does it will have a combination of flourescent, LED, and halogen.

My last boat had a simple lighting system and it was just those 12v bayonet style incandescent bulbs. Nothing fancy but they lit the place up.

[Tim Mertinooke]

I plan to go very simple (Pardey-like). One thing I'm doing is trying to figure out if I can use one fuel for both cooking and lighting...I will have a couple of 12v electric lights in the cabin, but plan also to use oil lamps

I don't think traditional should be confused with simplicity. In terms of lighting the cabin, I think an LED light powered by a small battery charged by a solar panel is simple and will provide many hours of consistent, bright, maintenance-free light without fumes or worry about fuel availablility. You could also go with a portable flashlight that uses a NiMH battery that you hand crank to generate the juice. Oil lamps are high on romance, but don't stack up in terms of simplicity. Plus, you will have solved your need for having only one fuel onboard.

[/disclosure] I have two beautifully polished, fully functioning Weems and Plath Yacht lamps onboard my boat.[/disclosure]

I would like to have a small, metal tank to hold this fuel that could be filled from an on-deck fill fitting, and from which I could fill lamps and the stove using gravity and a spigot.

If that tank were to become contaminated somehow compromising the fuel, or were to leak, you would be out of fuel. I would opt for many smaller stowed containers to avoid this possibility.

[Duncan]

When you get to the Caribbean you can go to the local rum distillery and ask for 5 gallons of head alcohol (the skimmings off the tops of the vats). It works quite well in stoves. And it smells good :)

THAT is the most interesting (and useful) thing I've learned all this week!

[Bluenose]

In three or four years I plan to take off on some extended cruising aboard my Triton. Between now and then, I'm going to be doing some modifications and work to Dove. I plan to go very simple (Pardey-like). One thing I'm doing is trying to figure out if I can use one fuel for both cooking and lighting.

I applaud your thoughts on this and encourage you to follow your vision. The Pardey's are idols of mine and I reread their books often for inspiration and practical simplifying ideas. It seems sometimes people want to discredit their approach because it differs from their own. The reality is it worked for them and I think it can for others as well. It is not for everyone, but if you think it is for you, I think that is great.

I have been going through some of this same type of thinking on Bolero. Originally I had planned on a "simple" 12 volt system powered by solar to run LED lights and an emergency bilge pump. The system seemed to take on a life of its own and started to grow in both complexity and cost. In the end this system didn't rate high enough on my priority list. Now I have decided on all hand held electronics (VHS, Depth, GPS) and I just picked up an old sea swing stove. Depending on whether the burner is alcohol or kerosene I will decide on my lighting options.

In fairness I won't be traveling at night ever, so my plan takes that into account.

Obviously this is another one of the choices where we choose what is comfortable for each of us.

I would really be interested in what you end up with so I hope will keep us posted.

[/disclosure] I have two beautifully polished, fully functioning Weems and Plath Yacht lamps onboard my boat.[/disclosure]

Tim, how do you find those lamps? I have read love / hate reviews of them. I admit to being tempted by them for casual non reading lamps.

[Ganges #363]

Jay,

Don Casey wrote a book you might be interested in, 'Sensible Cruising, the Thoreau Approach'. Here is the Amazon link to used copies starting at about $10.00:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... ref=lp_g_1

Some copies of this book are priced at more than $100, don't know why the rather amazing spread. This might be Casey's first book, so maybe the first editions are collectable now.

-Bill

[Tim Mertinooke]

Tim, how do you find those lamps? I have read love / hate reviews of them. I admit to being tempted by them for casual non reading lamps.

One I purchased about three years ago on ebay for $50 and the other came with my boat. I like them, but you cannot do much with the amount of light they throw off. I've also found no matter how good a quality fuel you use, there will always be some sort of odor once burned. In terms of the ambiance they provide however, oil lamps are second to none.

[Figment]

You will have electric navigation lights, yes?

[triton318]

You will have electric navigation lights, yes?

Yes, I'll definitely be using electric navigation lights. One nice thing about this is that I don't have to make any decisions in a hurry -- I plan on taking several years to complete everything. That could also be advantageous in that in a couple of years, solar panels might be less expensive and more effecient. Without an alternator, wind turbine, or generator to charge batteries, efficient solar panels, along with a modest power consumption requirement, will probably be the way to go. My plans now are for a couple of cabin lights, navigation lights, a shortwave receiver (which could also run on internal batteries), a VHF, and possibly a depth sounder. From what I understand about solar panels (which isn't a lot), it would appear that a good battery (I use two 6-volt Trojan 105s wired in series) and a solar panel to charge it would work just fine.

[Bluenose]

Here is some additional information that you might find useful in your decision making process. This first link has more information about fuel choices than I have seen anywhere else.

http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm

And here is an interesting writeup about cooking and heating onboard that I also found interesting (although you won't need much heating).

http://trawler.ca/cooking&.htm

One other option that I think is slowly becoming available is self contained solar powered navigation lights. This technology is coming from navigation buoy lighting requirements so I think they should hold up quite well.



I have mentioned these lights once before but they are manufactured by Carmanah. This is their model 601 and has 2 mile visibility. They sell for $400 at Solar Direct. Unfortunately these are single color or clear lights and there is not pre-configured masthead light. But I wonder if you could laminate a mylar film to them or something. I am thinking of giving them a try as a masthead anchor light.

In my mind, even though the cost of these lights seems high, you should have a pretty significant savings by not going the diesel repowering route that many go through prior to a journey like yours.

Just some ideas I hope might help. Good Luck.

[Robert The Gray]

I feel I can assume that we all derive great joy from the from all aspects of boat work, both the concrete reality of materials and gravity, as well as the intangible put vital works of the mind and imagination. At times the hands and eye guide the mind, at others mind to hand. On every cruise I realize that quite a few of the things i thought would work great don't work at all. I have to leave room for the possibility of adaptation. I know that I if I were to refurbish then cruise a series of tritons, all towards the same cruising style, that last one would be sweet!!

I thought I would use my kerosene lamps more. They really smell. I used my beeswax camping candle lamp and a flourescent (sp?) camping lamp from sport maxalopolus ($14). My triton overhead has the stock west coast headliner a smooth gelcoat surface. shining light up onto this surface bounces it back into the space at diffuse angles, it worked for general lighting.

general suggestions:

I do not know if you have ever slept on your specific boat but any research in actuality will pay off when you start construction. bring a sandwich see where you will eat. design a table or work with trays to hold food.

An integral small battery rack and solar charger rigged under the fore ward hatch skylight as well as a transom mounted panel for the house battery.

I second the advice against installing a permanent tank for lighting fuel.

when in warm climates with the proper awning and weather cloths, the cockpit becomes galley, saloon, outdoor bathroom, and with a mozzy net over the airbed, the buudwaaa. Plan accordingly for lighting. I think boom lights would be cool. You could swing the boom out at night, shine the light on the water to attract fish. get yer chow right thar!


r

[Figment]

the buudwaaa rocks.

[jollyboat]

Jay, the stock Triton typically included 12 vt. electric lamps which work very well. Oil lamps are fun but as has been mentioned they can smell to the point of developing headaches - but I would never be without at least one nice oil lamp anyway. On 346 I had six oil lamps, with clean paraphin lamp oil and trimed wicks they can work out well but the wicks have to be set on a low burn without getting the full fume out in the cabin. The 12v electrics are great too - you need a little light - click - you have it - do what you must and turn it or them off. Depending on solar power alone to recharge your batteries is something that I think you need to re-visit - but I will let you figure that one on your own - you have a lot of options. Triton's have brought their sailors on all kinds of voyages from ocean crossings to round the world adventures but for sure the Triton's best potential if cruised on a buget will yeild itself to coastal day hops or several day hops where a port of call for exploration and provisions is never more than a day or two away. Your boat will evolve on your cruise as demand requires. In as far as your cooking is concerned - you will need to revisit this too - the Triton as do most boats of this size have limitations in availble space for provisions and provisions that require some preparations (cooking) take up less space than does most foods that are MRE. You are going to need a stove that can heat your food quickly and efficiently - white gas is a good option but I would consider propain as the best option. When it is lousy and you have been on deck for 12 hours wondering if you are going to make it through the night - the last thing you are gonna want to do when you finally are hungry enough to eat is fool around with some ridiculous stove that takes more effort to use than its worth - Cheers