Replacing standing rigging on Triton #680

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:18 pm

With this morning's temperatures hovering right around zero I have been keeping busy with some indoor projects.

Firstly, I did some measuring. All my pins are 3/8" (0.375)

Some of the holes in the chainplates have elongated a bit. Not enough to be seen visually but my caliper picked it up. Forestay and backstay holes were around 0.39-0.40". The side stays were a bit more at 0.41-0.425" It is the one starboard upper shroud chainplate at 0.050" oversize that has me wondering but I may be suffering from using too precise a measuring tool and losing sight of realistic expectations.

The side chainplates themselves are 0.2" thick stainless and seem beefy enough to me. Curiously, the starboard chainplates are 2 inches shorter than the port side. (extend below the deck 2 inches less) Not quite sure why.

The starboard upper shroud chainplate also has a 0.175" deflection in it. I think that is because the knee (with its five layers of biax overlay) that it bolts into isn't terribly perpendicular where it goes through the deck (the tabbing on the main bulkhead is a little messy - original structure - not mine) and the chainplate has bent to accomodate the abnormality.

Upon further investigation the forestay size is going to depend on which furler I chose. Some have a minimum wire diameter of 1/4". Others can handle the 3/16".

Does anyone care? Probably not but I am bored and stuck inside...

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:57 pm

bcooke wrote:Curiously, the starboard chainplates are 2 inches shorter than the port side. (extend below the deck 2 inches less) Not quite sure why.

This was originally to accommodate the shelves built into the starboard side of the boat; the chainplates extended only until they reached the top shelf.

This is common to most or all Tritons I have personally been involved with, though "later" Tritons seem to have a knee on the starboard side for the aft lowers, rather than using the after bulkhead like in the photo above (on an older Triton).

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:39 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot about that shelf. It has been awhile...

kristian · Post by **kristian** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:52 pm

Surprised to hear that they're not recommending the Cruising version. The changes over the past year have been the replacement of the single MkIII line with MkIV and Cruising lines. The differences between the IV and the Cruising furlers have to do with the luff grooves and head and tack swivels. Did they elaborate on what is supposed to make the IV stronger or more reliable than the Cruising unit?

Regarding the Harken long link plate toggles, they are available, and quite nice. :>

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:02 pm

The tech didn't go into great detail and he could simply be pushing me towards the more expensive unit. He felt the racing version was overall a bit stronger and with greater care in the construction. The riggers at the www.riggingonly.com "didn't like them much".

There was the mention of lesser quality materials in the cruising version too. I am going to try and see a couple in person in the very near future.

The fact that you (Kristian) say the llink plates are available and this guy says they are not also leaves me with some doubt. I am not doubting that they exist since you have seen and used them but I am not sure why the tech didn't seem to know it.

One thing I am learning about the boatworld: Never believe any one fact. There are too many bogus opinions mixed in out there.

-Britton

Case · Post by **Case** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:12 pm

I hate to say this because I love Rigging Only's prices & service and have bought a new standing rigging for my Sea Sprite 23 from them and they was amazingly fast and the price was great but... As long they do not upgrade their website with a shopping cart, Rigging Only will most likely not do well in the future.

I am sticking out my neck and saying this because... Myself, I run a business and I had to move the business (its family owned) into the 21th century with a REAL e-commerce website, one with a shopping cart. I did this 2 years ago and the new website paid for itself in 1 month! Rigging Only has been saying they will have a website with shopping cart for ages now but I see no progress at all.

If theres no progress, it means they may not have the money to spend towards a real e-commerce website so are unwilling to add more to their existing inventory. So its entirely possible that Rigging Only is pushing Schaefer and Harken MKIV furlers because that's what they have in stock.

I sincerely hope Rigging Only finally get a new e-commerce website up and going so I can buy online. They will die if they don't do the e-commerce route and I admit not buying from them because I dislike having to email my orders to them - rather just buy online right away. This is why I shop from Defender, Mauri Pro, and Annapolis Performance Sailing instead of from Rigging Only for sailing-related parts.

Oh, if you wonder why I don't just call Rigging Only directly... I am Deaf.

- Case

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:43 pm

I do remember asking the tech about delivery times and apparently they have the Schaeffer and both models of Harken in a wharehouse across town and could ship within 24 hours.

kristian · Post by **kristian** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:06 pm

Long toggles are very new, and just made it into the manuals/parts lists in Nov I think. Should be available everywhere by spring I'd imagine. Rigging Only usually has good people working there so I'd imagine they just haven't gotten any in yet.

Confused on material differences between MkIV and Cruising. As far as I know there are none. Big differences are: foil (1 vs 2 groove), tack swivel (fixed vs not) and drum (fixed vs split). All are built very very well.

Any of these units are going to be great for your needs. I used to install lots of Schaefer xx00 before the Harken MkIV's came out, and they're quite good. Just make sure that any furler is on a headstay in good condition and installed right. Once it's up there most people never notice it again.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:45 pm

Cost estimate from RiggingOnly catalogue

$1,291.28 for the wire, fittings, and turnbuckles.

When the professional's estimates are about the same it hardly seems worth it.

I sit down with a highly recomended local pro next week...

Tim Mertinooke · Post by **Tim Mertinooke** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:49 pm

bcooke wrote:RiggingOnly...I sit down with a highly recomended local pro next week...

I have heard only good things about Rigging Only.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:07 pm

Anyone know the length of their Triton forestay offhand?

I have an Improvement Bulletin that shows it at 38' 3/4"

I have an old scrap of paper that says I measured my forestay at 31' even.

The actual stay is under a snow pile.

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:11 pm

bcooke wrote:Anyone know the length of their Triton forestay offhand?

I have an Improvement Bulletin that shows it at 38' 3/4"

I have an old scrap of paper that says I measured my forestay at 31' even.

The actual stay is under a snow pile.

-Britton

I don't know exactly, but 31 is definitely close, not 38'.

Might as well dig it out now. You're going to need it for your rigger--don't use any "stock" dimensions.

Post by **Tim** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:32 am

I just stumbled across my own measurements from when I installed my Schaefer 1100 furler in 2001:

Back then, I wrote:The measurement [of the old stay], pin to pin with the turnbuckle open, was 31'-8-1/2". I made some subtractions to the length to account for parts of the roller furling system--the lower link plate, the Stalok terminal, and a double toggle at the upper end. This made for a total deduction of 8-3/8", so I cut my new headstay (turnbuckle open) to 31'-0-1/8".

Your results will vary.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:59 pm

Thanks. I went digging through the snow pile and measured mine at 31 feet and one half inch. (with the extension plates factored in).

The bottom fitting appears to be integral with the old Furlex unit with no adjustment possible. Luckily, the mast stood in about the right position without needing any forestay adjustment. I figure allowing for 6 inches of adjustment should be fine but I will let the rigger decide that. It appears that having the rigger do it is going to be much cheaper than me; even factoring in future repair options.

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:34 pm

I put a downpayment on a Harken MkIV today. Total price is $1400 with a new forestay and all built up minus the foils.