CABIN HEATERS

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:56 am

Time for a new thread.

I have been considering a cabin heater in my renegade for some time. I have done some winter sailing with friends who had a diesel heater, nothing better than warming up in a 70 degree cabin while its 35 out.

Anyway, looking for input. What kind of stoves does eveyone have, performance, space requirements, is it even worth the effort. Sound off.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:30 am

I used to use one of these on the Renegade.

Easy to stow, cheap, and heated up the small cabin nicely. You'll need some ventilation with this though.

catamount · Post by **catamount** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:02 am

Recently installed, haven't used it with the boat in the water yet:

This is a Force 10 Cozy Cabin D/K bulkhead heater, now no longer offered (EDIT -- there is still a propane version). Here it is running on straight diesel siphoned from the engine's fuel tank. The fuel is supplied from a two-gallon pressure tank as seen above, which is pressurized with a bicycle tire pump.

Post by **dasein668** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:15 pm

Those heat-pal heaters actually do a good job if you only need it once in a while. I've used mine about 3 times and it's alot less installation, space, cost etc for a heater that gets only rare use.

If I was using it all the time, or even somewhat frequently, however I'd definitely go with a "real" heater like the Force 10, or other diesel/kero heaters.

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:00 pm

If you have more money than you know what to do with, I might recommend the Webasto heater (2000 in my case).

Pros: I didn't have bulkhead space nor did I really want an object to kick on the deck. It is small, hidden, automatic and blows lots of hot air.

Cons: It is expesnive, consumes power, more complex, and above all expensive.

It wasn't hard to install (install pics). The hardest part for me was replacing my diesel fuel tank (was a portable duct taped in below decks) and deciding where I wanted the output. It has worked flawlessly for the past year+ and I'm hoping that continues for a long time to come...

If you have bulkhead space, deck space, and like simple then this heater probably isn't a great solution for you.

At least in the PNW, a heater greatly extends the sailing window to less busy times of year. And for keeping things dry, the real problem here, it does wonders. No more getting into wet clothes in the morning.

Post by **Tim** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:11 pm

I've carried two terra cotta flower pots on board for 6 years, supposedly to put on the stove as an easy heat distribution source. I have yet to do this, however. They never move from their storage space beneath the settee.

Maybe I've been lucky with my cruising weather (actually, I know I have been), or maybe I'm a wimp and don't go out on cold days (probably also true, since we tend to haul out on the early side), or maybe the body heat from a couple people in such a small space make extra heat unnecessary, but I haven't seen the need yet. On Glissando, it's hard to find a good space for one anyway. Something else would have to give, so I have no plans for one on board.

I'm planning on a heater for Pixie when I redo her, however; if I plan it in advance, I'll find the room without undue compromise. I bought a used Force 10 last year, and may or may not use it, depending on other factors.

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:30 pm

Tim Wrote:

I've carried two terra cotta flower pots on board for 6 years, supposedly to put on the stove as an easy heat distribution source.

I actually have tryed that on a friends boat. I joined them on the first leg of taking their S&S 34' boat to the carribean for the winter. We left Marion Mass at 6pm a few days after thanksgiving(several years ago) that night the temp dropped to 25 degrees witha small craft warning. The only heat in the boat was the cook stove and a flowerpot. It didn't work very well. Even though the wind was screaming and the water was flat, the wind was coming from the northwest it was actually it was rather unnerving having the cookstove going with an upsidedown flowerpot on it. we gave up on that idea quickly and added some layers.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:48 pm

jpmathieu wrote:Tim Wrote:
taking their S&S 34' boat to the carribean for the winter.

Marianne of Lorn, by any chance?

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:21 pm

Marianne of Lorn, by any chance?

Nope!

3/4 ton racer properly named Red Stripe

Post by **Tim** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:24 pm

jpmathieu wrote:The only heat in the boat was the cook stove and a flowerpot. It didn't work very well.

That settles it: the flower pots are coming off the boat.

It might work better on one of those 55? gray, foggy (or rainy) days than when it's 25, but I don't think I should waste the space on those things any more since I have yet to see real cause to use them. Glissando's going on a diet this season.

Post by **dasein668** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:00 pm

Two flowerpots constitutes a diet?

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:13 pm

All things in moderation.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:23 pm

I've used a Sigmar 120 diesel heater extensively while cruising in British Columbia. We fired it up every morning and didn't shut it off until evening (liking the cooler temperatures we call "good sleeping weather" up north). The photo below really doesn't do it justice, as when it was running there was a really cheery glow through the door.

Here you can see the stove itself a bit better:

I believe they are designed to use a small pressure tank that you pump up with a bicycle pump, but we had ours set up with an outboard tank in the port cockpit locker, which fed the stove by gravity. The fuel bulb served to get things going after the occasional tank re-fill. It was handy to have it use the same fuel as the engine.

Lighting it was relatively easy - squirt a bit of meths into the burner, then light a small bit of toilet paper and toss it in. After that got hot you could turn on the diesel. One thing I really liked about it was that the burner chamber was sealed from the boat's cabin, so it didn't smell of diesel.

This was perhaps operator error, so don't take it as gospel, but I spent a night on a boat with a Force 10 "Cozy Cabin" kerosene heater, with the open burner, and my sleeping bag smelled of fuel for a week.

Back to the Sigmar though -- it was nicely made and a real pleasure to use. If I end up with a diesel heater for my boat, it would be a top contender.

Rachel

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:16 pm

Triton #680 had a Ratelco wood/coal stove mounted on the bulkhead when I got her. It seemed to do the trick (until I burned the deck core as I mentioned). I think for damp, cool days it will work fine. For really cold weather I read that diesel is really the way to go. If I already had a diesel engine (and diesel fuel tanks) then I would definitely go this route.

My stove was initially installed quite high; higher than safety standards recomend actually. That may have contributed to the feeling that there was lots of warm air near the top of the cabin but down low it was still cool. I think repositioning the stove will fix most of that. I would also consider a discreet little 12 volt fan(s) for moving the air around a bit.

Ceasar, what is that thing and how does it work?

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:21 pm

Two flowerpots constitutes a diet?

Think baby steps. Just like "Hmmm.... should I eat that fourth donut?... No, I will be strong and stop now. I need to start my diet."

Post by **Tim** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:53 am

Geez, guys. I didn't say the flower pots would be the only thing to go! Wisenheimers.

When I hauled the boat last (way, way back in early September 2005!!), I stripped everything off so that I could reload more selectively. Gear has a way of building up over time.

Post by **dasein668** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:09 am

Tim wrote:Geez, guys. I didn't say the flower pots would be the only thing to go! Wisenheimers.

Ok, ok! I was just checking!

I think that the same standards should apply to "wisenheimers" as apply to "ginormous" by the way.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:13 am

Isn't it amazing (horrifying?) the mountainous pile that results when you offload the contents of the entire boat onto the dock? Since seeing one of those mountains, I've stopped complaining about the amount of stowage; I still complain, but I've modified it to be about accessible stowage.

On that note, I'm really looking forward to having two cockpit lockers and a lazarette. I specifically looked for a boat without quarter berth(s) just so that I could revel in the cockpit stowage space. I'll have to be careful so that my boat won't be recognizable at a distance as "the one riding REALLY low in the stern"....

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:10 pm

On the subject of heating with the cookstove...

For awhile I was sailing club boats here in the PNW that did not have heaters--a cold and wet prospect. Over a number of trips on different boats, catalina 27, bristol 22, etc, I tried a number of methods to heat the cabin.

Most successful: on the catalina 27 was the standard 2 burner Origo alcohol stove and about 5 feet away was an old deck thru-hull left over from a heater years back. Running 4" aluminum tubing (drier duct) from over the stove to that thru-hull worked well. I tried it both with just convection flow and with a small fan--not much difference. It would bring the boat up to a temperature that would dry it out but not a temp I would call warm.

Less successful: I tried this same setup on the bristol 22 except venting through the forward hatch. Very poor results. My thinking is that without the hull liner the boat simply lost too much heat out through the hull to do any good. It never did get dry. This also could have been that it was probably colder outside, but that shouldn't affect the relative humidity/drying things out.

Other attempts: Tried making a dedicated burner with glass wool suspended below a copper pipe arrangement with a double bore heat exchanger that vented the combustion waste out and forced cold inside air around that tube. Even with this heat exchanger being nearly 3' long, out of copper, and with forced air it still had poor results.

I never did try a terra cotta pot.

jpmathieu wrote:Tim Wrote:
I've carried two terra cotta flower pots on board for 6 years, supposedly to put on the stove as an easy heat distribution source.
I actually have tryed that on a friends boat. I joined them on the first leg of taking their S&S 34' boat to the carribean for the winter. We left Marion Mass at 6pm a few days after thanksgiving(several years ago) that night the temp dropped to 25 degrees witha small craft warning. The only heat in the boat was the cook stove and a flowerpot. It didn't work very well. Even though the wind was screaming and the water was flat, the wind was coming from the northwest it was actually it was rather unnerving having the cookstove going with an upsidedown flowerpot on it. we gave up on that idea quickly and added some layers.

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:17 pm

Rachel wrote:I'll have to be careful so that my boat won't be recognizable at a distance as "the one riding REALLY low in the stern"....

Just repaint your waterline, no one will notice.

We seem to be changing the subject again (this thread was the attempt to avoid a sidetrack) but having 2 underseat lockers in the cockpit can not be over rated. Being able to keep all the often wet stuff outside the living space is worth all of the loss in living space and some!

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:22 pm

We seem to be changing the subject again (this thread was the attempt to avoid a sidetrack) but having 2 underseat lockers in the cockpit can not be over rated. Being able to keep all the often wet stuff outside the living space is worth all of the loss in living space and some!

Back on track. (Rachel start another thread on lazarette storage)

Im only starting to warm up.Lets see some more pictures of peoples cabin heater setups.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:05 am

Here's my "cabin" heater for the house :-)

The Albin Vega has a Force 10 kerosene heater

with a pressure tank on the other side of the bulkhead, with a bicycle pump to pressurize it, and an extinguisher ... just in case.

This setup was in the boat when I bought it. I re-built the burner and it works well. You have to fiddle the control a bit to get the flame to burn clean (blue). I worked in the cabin all one winter with the stove running and had no ill effects, although some of my friends may disagree ... ;-)

If I was buying a new unit I'd either go propane (and convert to a propane cooker) or a solid fuel unit.

I was surprised how little heat circulated up to the V-berth, but the main cabin gets comfortably warm. The unit burns about two hours on a "pump-up" and .... a LONG time on a tankfull of kerosene. It will also burn Diesel, but I was warned the smell would not be pleasant.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:18 pm

I was surprised how little heat circulated up to the V-berth

For the same reasons I keep toying with the idea of a discreet forced ventilation system that might have a few well placed 12v fans (quiet ones) and tubing/louvers/whatever to pass air forward and around the interior. It is still in the concept phase so if anyone has a good idea I would be interested.

My bulkhead heater is out while the bulkhead is getting refinished so I can't get a picture. It is a pretty generic solid fuel stove installation though. I like the dry heat of solid fuel and gathering sticks gives me something to do occasionally on long lazy cruise days. If I had to rely on it I would do something different.

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:23 am

bcooke wrote:...I keep toying with the idea of a discreet forced ventilation system that might have a few well placed 12v fans (quiet ones) and tubing/louvers/whatever to pass air forward and around the interior. It is still in the concept phase so if anyone has a good idea I would be interested.

Sounds like you need an Espar, or a Webasto like Jedediah's.

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:43 pm

On Whisper I have one of the Dickson solid fuel heaters. I wanted to put it low in the boat so I cut into the starboard setee a bit. It works great except for the stain that is now running down my cabin top from the charley noble.
This is during construction./ You can see the hole in the aft bulkhead for the seaberth that passes behind the stove Just forward, at the base of the head sink I built a wood storage box. It has perforated stainless as a screen for ventalation. The seaberth goes all the way to the mast step bulkhead.

This is the top at the flue. It gets hottest here and the fan does help distribute the air. The drying rack doubles as a shield to keep hands from accidently touching the flue.

I have it about 8" off the floor, with plenty of fresh air available for the fire intake. I have not as of yet smelled any burning plastic.

I burn yard waste, small branches about 1-2" in diameter cut into little 3" logs. I get really aggravated in the throat with any thing that smells like deisel or kerosene so I avoided them. I would change some things about my install with hindsight, I would definately add a system to force the air around the boat. using fans to just move the air around the cabin does a bit but they are noisy and nothing moves the cold air from below the waterline. I would use a simple inverted " T " duct. Taking the air from uo at the overhead near the top of the flue and sending it down a single 4" duct to a branch at the cabin sole where it goes fore and aft. It would be a bit of a bother to pass a 4" duct at the bottom of the bulkhead under the mast but getting the warm air under the cold air at the floor is the only way to move that heavy cold air away from my toes. A small 12 volt computer fan placed somewhere would be adequate I think.
The flue, the charlie noble, and the pressure adjusting thingie(?) and the stove altogether cost me about $600. I am hoping it will last for 20 years.
I really like it. There has been no maintenance except for dumping ash.

r

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:49 pm

Robert - I 've always been impressed at how you were able to fit in a berth /foot cubby, a low stove, a wood bin, a drying rack, and a sink counter.

Very cool.

Rachel

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:19 pm

More great stuff from Mr. The Gray!

Do you ever burn charcoal or just wood?

Jedediah · Post by **Jedediah** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:50 am

I'm envious of that setup. Simple and it looks great. My thoughts on the air flow issue...

Before putting in my little Webasto heater I spend a good long time with 3" duct and the metric stuff it came with. I duct taped different blowers and a ceramic heater to the ends and tried blowing it around, splitting it, running a branch to the v-birth or head. Stood on my head, thought, and tried a few more options. Figured out how to run the duct past the main bulkhead, promptly forgot it.

After all of this I put one outlet near the floor, slightly port of center line right under the companion way steps. It works great. I don't get a warm toilet or floor in the head but there isn't a long duct running forward. I also don't get the benefit of a duct running through lockers keeping things nice and dry in there. But it was simple and works great. The hot air blows across the main cabin floor and heats up the whole boat pretty quickly. The v-birth doesn't get as warm as quickly but it does get warm--insulation works.

But, this system has a strong blower built in that moves a good deal of air--that is also hot. I've also spent a good deal of time making hot air solar heaters and here is what I have to add about moving hot air to heat things...

1) Computer fans suck for ducting
2) Sucking works better for those pancake fans than blowing
3) Blowers will move air, but take a bit more power
4) Air (compressible fluid) doesn't like sharp corners

You could probably get away with taking the hot air down a 3" duct, run it to one end of the cabin and blow it out. This will create a flow across the floor and start a circulation current up throughout the boat. There are some small dc powered blowers that could be used with the ducting. But as has been pointed out, it all takes power, complexity, space and noise.

How about heating water and pumping it around in a radiant type system...just think, a jacuzzi could be added in with that :)

My two cents...

Robert The Gray wrote:I would change some things about my install with hindsight, I would definately add a system to force the air around the boat. using fans to just move the air around the cabin does a bit but they are noisy and nothing moves the cold air from below the waterline. I would use a simple inverted " T " duct. Taking the air from uo at the overhead near the top of the flue and sending it down a single 4" duct to a branch at the cabin sole where it goes fore and aft. It would be a bit of a bother to pass a 4" duct at the bottom of the bulkhead under the mast but getting the warm air under the cold air at the floor is the only way to move that heavy cold air away from my toes. A small 12 volt computer fan placed somewhere would be adequate I think.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:08 pm

bcooke wrote:
...
Then Tim wrote: Sounds like you need an Espar, or a Webasto like Jedediah's.

I couldn't get the Webasto link to work.

Well, like Jedidiah wrote:
Cons: It is expensive, consumes power, more complex, and above all expensive.

The expensive I am okay with. It is the power consumption and added complexity that goes against my normal design parameters and personal tastes. Plus, it just doesn't have that homey feel of a crackling wood fire.If real heat is more important that atmosphere I think the Espar unit has lots of merit.

Now I wish I had thought more about it before starting to build my hanging locker icebox. It would have been pretty easy to install ducting through the area before I filled in everything with insulation... oh well.

Note, the Espar online brochure doesn't work much for me. (I wanted to import the pictures but it was taking too much work to accomplish. ) for example, what does the close-up face shot of a female model with uncombed wet hair in her face have to do with heating a boat? Can I sail without a turtleneck knitted sweater? Is that sleeping couple just resting or have they succombed to CO poisoning? Does a boat have to be fifteen feet wide and filled with cutsy nautical 'stuff' for the heater to work effectively?

If that is cruising then what do they call what I do on a boat?

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:12 pm

Great info Jedediah.

Post by **dasein668** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:43 pm

Testy, testy, Britton! Are you having a bad hair day, or what, man? Don't be too cranky: you could have ended up installing deadlights, ports, and seacocks on someone elses boat today. You don't know how close you were to real torture!

I must admit, your marketing tirade did make me go look at the brochure though! hehe

Post by **Tim** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:44 pm

bcooke wrote:
bcooke wrote:
...
Then Tim wrote: Sounds like you need an Espar, or a Webasto like Jedediah's.
I couldn't get the Webasto link to work.

Well, like Jedidiah wrote:
Cons: It is expensive, consumes power, more complex, and above all expensive.

The expensive I am okay with. It is the power consumption and added complexity that goes against my normal design parameters and personal tastes. Plus, it just doesn't have that homey feel of a crackling wood fire.If real heat is more important that atmosphere I think the Espar unit has lots of merit.

Now I wish I had thought more about it before starting to build my hanging locker icebox. It would have been pretty easy to install ducting through the area before I filled in everything with insulation... oh well.

Note, the Espar online brochure doesn't work much for me. (I wanted to import the pictures but it was taking too much work to accomplish. ) for example, what does the close-up face shot of a female model with uncombed wet hair in her face have to do with heating a boat? Can I sail without a turtleneck knitted sweater? Is that sleeping couple just resting or have they succombed to CO poisoning? Does a boat have to be fifteen feet wide and filled with cutsy nautical 'stuff' for the heater to work effectively?

If that is cruising then what do they call what I do on a boat?

-Britton

Someone's a little cranky today...

Post by **Tim** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:47 pm

Oops! My posting must have been nearly simultaneous with Nathan's! Funny how we both had the same thoughts! hehe

Not that I disagree with the sentiment from Britton's statements, though. The brochure is very cheesy. I almost didn't post it, but Espar heaters have a good enough reputation that I thought it might be overlooked.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:55 pm

Nathan wrote:Testy, testy, Britton! Are you having a bad hair day, or what, man? Don't be too cranky

Tim wrote:Someone's a little cranky today...

I hope you two both got your hair stuck in wet epoxy.

Don't bother me.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:08 pm

bcooke wrote: If that is cruising then what do they call what I do on a boat?

Brittoning.

Post by **dasein668** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:20 pm

bcooke wrote:Don't bother me.

Ouch, baby! Very ouch!

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:32 pm

bcooke wrote: I hope you two both got your hair stuck in wet epoxy.

Bald is beautiful!

Ok, ok, enough. Enough beating up on poor defenseless slow-to-adjust-to-DST Britton.

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:03 pm

Am I going to have to seperate all of you??? Pulling hair, threatening with epoxy, that's just crazy talk. Gone all reno 911 on us. Maybe we could say "boat camping and house boating" are the extreme ends of a wide cruising spectrum....
Back to the heaters:
Thanks for all the comments. It was great to hear the advise from Jedediah with regards to forcing air. I was repeating what I had heard around the dock. Good knowledge Jedediah. Believe it or not I had hoped to add along the bulkhead a small copper tubing hot water heater, like I need more stuff in that area. The idea was to have hot water for washing your face from the heat of the fire. Like I said, "house boating". I decided that this was a bit much. I didn't really know how I was going to deal with the forces of expansion while the water heated, nor get the water in and out of this fancy little copper radiator. I was remembering the exploding boilers of the steam ships when I realised I could just heat a pot, of water not clay, on the stove. Like I said "boat camping".
I have never burned charcol nor coal. I tried a wax based fire log once and it burned way to dirty. The little yard waste logs dry pretty fast and burn hot. I can get oak branches with little trouble. The wood is clean to store and smells nice. Even though the fire box is small and I have to add fuel about every 20 minutes I don't really mind. It's not like I have to come in from working in the yard, I am usually less than 5 feet away. I have had the fire place going a bit while sailing and feel that it would be fine under motor. the fire box is secure and I would have to wire the ash drawer shut, but I do not feel that a small amount of heeling and pounding would do any damage. not having the fuel in a liquid state seems a bit safer for use under way. If I had a larger boat and intended to live aboard with access to shore power I might look into electric heat. Or one of the diesel heaters shown else where. I might also install an attractive woman with wet hair, I have heard they generate heat.
Fun thread, especially with the snarkiness.

r

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:04 pm

You guys give up WAYYYyyyyy too easily.

I am overworked.
I woke up with a really sore back.
West Marine sent me someone else's package (mine is lost) and they won't respond (I already gave them my grief and re-ordered from Hamilton).
The sun is shining and it is warm and I am inside banging on a keyboard.

Actually, I feel pretty good. You just haven't had me around much lately so you have forgotten how much I add to this forum :-)

I am going to go and visit my boat now and plan some spring projects.

-Britton

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:41 pm

NOW its starting to warm up around here.

It must be spring everyone is getting testy, the splash downs wont be soon enough ( even my 1 1/2 old is at my feet pointing to the computer saying boat boat.)

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:35 pm

hehe,

Robert, you are reading the inner recesses of my mind when you talk of copper tube water heaters. Of course that is way in the future and as you point out, not very practical.

I really like the drying rack idea. I removed the short 'bulkhead' that creates the nook on the Triton's starboard side and now I think I will replace it with a drying rack to keep inadvertant hands off the heater and make a nice visual break without closing the area in.

I might also install an attractive woman with wet hair, I have heard they generate heat.

Yeah I can confirm that, very hard to regulate though, it seems one is always getting either the cold shoulder or a scalding burn....

...[edited for my personal safety]...

... and often requires the installation of a large AC electrical system to support the hair dryer too. A shiny wet boat is far simpler and cheaper.

[ladies of the forum be advised that I am an equal rights chauvinist. Feel free to retaliate - if you can't take it then you shouldn't dish it out]

-Britton

jpmathieu · Post by **jpmathieu** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:03 pm

GETTING EVEN WARMER

catamount · Post by **catamount** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:14 pm

Has anyone considered hydronic heating? You know, hot water baseboards? I've heard of installations that are connected to the engine cooling system, much like a hot water heater would be. All you need is a couple of loops of copper pipe and some hose....

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:28 pm

Pipe by itself isn't a fantastic radiator. Those fragile metal fins on domestic radiators do all the work.

Hot water from a sailboat's engine is always problematic, I think. Until you put a load on it, they just don't have a lot of waste heat. A fine idea for commercial fishing boats, not so much for sailors.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:27 pm

Mike is probably right.

A person could buy a cheap automotive transmission cooler, route engine coolant through it and use an electric fan to blow air across it. That might be a nice addition in really cold climates where heat all day long is important. Of course it only works when the engine is running which isn't terribly often on a sailboat (we hope). My uninsulated engine cover allows the cabin to warm up quite a bit when the engine is running. Enough so that when I rebuild the cover I am going to insulated it for sound and heat.

-Britton

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:40 pm

Robert the Gray wrote:It works great except for the stain that is now running down my cabin top from the charley noble.

Hmm, I never considered that, even after dealing with the house wood stove for almost 30 years ... is this really a problem with solid fuel boat heaters? Or, like anything else, is it just a question of regular maintenance?

Post by **Tim** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:20 am

Cheesy brochure and wet-haired women aside, the Espar really is a good choice for plentiful ducted heat, and would be my choice if a true necessity for good heat was part of a boat's requirements (such as extended high latitude cruising). They use a miserly amount of diesel or gas fuel, and a small amount of electric as required to run blowers or fans.

But a self-contained stove, whether solid fuel or liquid, is probably the most practical choice, if imperfect. But you're going cruising to the tropics and mostly temperate weather, right? So heat is incidental, not critical. If you just want to cozy it up on rainy or foggy days, a typical bulkhead heater is the way to go.

I just like the way those Newport heaters like Robert's look. And they have a good reputation, as well.

s/v Groovy · Post by **s/v Groovy** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:57 pm

Here are some pics of my Cole #1655 Solid Fuel Stove, mounted in the starboard hanging locker... it came with the boat, the PO was burning charcoal in it.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:40 pm

The Triton Dorothy G, which awaits restoration when I have time, has a Cole Stove in the saloon.

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:13 pm

Tim,
The Dorothy G has several interesting modifications. I particularly noticed the divided v berth up forward. Is that at all well thought out?

I looked for a charlie noble like that, as we have a coulple here in our marina, but I never saw one. when the fire is going the top of my flue at the deck gets HOT. I think those stacks have a cast iron collar that gets filled with water. or it is just a hunk of thermal mass to distribute the heat. I used a combination of air space and sheet stainless. The flue itself does not touch the glass. I have a small oven thermometer there to watch for spikes in the temp.

Stain. When firing the fire there is a period where it burn smoky this leaves a residue of soot on the grill of the C. N.. This runs down the white Brightsides with each morning dew and leaves a stain. I have seen other boats with a tan section of paint where the stain is and that seems to be my next solution. This soot and smoke can be a draw back of the solid fuel heater. When anchored in winds above 15 knots the smoke comes into the cabin. At this point I am swinging off the hook with the wind and I rig a small sunbrella wind shield to create a lee for the stack. The boat is small and if I open the forward hatch the smoke clears out pretty quickly.

r

Plastic Classic Forum

CABIN HEATERS

CABIN HEATERS

Re: CABIN HEATERS