Plastic Classic Forum

I have decided to rebuild my A4 and I am going to replace my gas tank. I want something I can move foreward in the starboard cockpit locker just behind the galley area so I can fully utilize the locker. I would also like to downsize to 10 or 12 gallons. Are ther any recommendations for a specific tank and supplier to accomplish this? I looked at Jollyboat's setup and believe this is similar to what I want.

galley fires happen--are you sure you want gasoline nearby?

A couple of years ago Mike, (Figment) put a ten gallon tank in the forward end of the starboard locker. You can search for the thread or maybe Mike will chime in.

galley fires happen--are you sure you want gasoline nearby?

I am not sure there is any place safe for gasoline on a boat. You just have to take precautions and live with it.

Britton

I am curious, with all of the work and expense that you have already in your boat, why would you prefer to rebuild the A-4 instead of switching to a small diesel? The difference in reliability, safety, economy and resale are worth the small difference in cost from rebuilding the A-4 (plus you can sell the A-4 to further reduce that difference).
Of all of the updating projects that I have done in my Triton, switching to diesel was one of the easiest.

Barry

Hawgdawg

Sorry, I replied to the wrong person. I don't know anything about your project, my opinion still stands about diesel vs gas but I have no opinion on changing the fuel tank.

Barry

Because the A4 had just been rebuilt before I bought the boat. I didn't have to do a thing and I couldn't see spending the money to change a perfectly good engine.

an A4 properly maintained is pretty reliable.

an A4 is much smoother and quieter.

the improvement in economy is pretty small (3 quarts per hour instead of maybe two). Not a huge deal since I don't use the motor much anyway.

the resale value of the boat would only increase about half of what a diesel would cost and I won't be selling the boat anyway so its a moot point.

I agree that diesels are nice. If I had to overhaul the engine I would probably have been swayed into it. Not that I think that is the best choice because I think it depends on many factors. For the record, the cost of rebuilding an A4 is much less than the cost of a replacement. For that reason, rebuilding has some merit.

Hang on, Mike is usually busy on the weekends. Wait until he is back at work.

Repowering with diesel could be an option in the future but I still want to change the location of the fuel tank to the forward end of the locker. The galley is being pushed forward to the hanging locker area. How much would a early model A4 fetch toward the price of a new or rebuilt Yanmar?

How much would a early model A4 fetch toward the price of a new or rebuilt Yanmar?

Hard to say without knowing the condition, according to Moyer the early models were the best. I would guess, depending on the condition, somewhere between $500. and $1500. watching Moyer's website and e-bay could give you a better idea. When I sold mine I put it on Moyer's site and sold it almost immediately.

For the fuel tank, some people have put them behind the engine along the centerline, I don't know what compromises this involves but I'm sure some others on this board can tell you.

Barry

For the fuel tank, some people have put them behind the engine along the centerline, I don't know what compromises this involves but I'm sure some others on this board can tell you.

Lots. The only way in or out is by removing the engine or galley unit unless its a really small tank less than say 6" high (only removing the galley unit worked for me). Its a tight narrow tapering location with less room than you would think. The tank will definitely have to be custom made. There are no good off-the-shelf solutions for anything above about 6 gallons. Then the transmission shift connection needs to be re-engineered since that is exactly where the shift lever and pushrod live. (not as simple as one would think with a clunky A4 'transmission' with no real reverse detent). Access is even more tricky without a cockpit access hatch (a must for any Triton in my book).

If you don't need the absolute most-est capacity a ten gallon fuel tank in the forward end of the cockpit locker (behind the galley bulkhead) is a good solution. That's still 15 hours of motoring endurance. I love my 27 gallon centerline-under-cockpit fuel tank but I think it really only works as part of a larger overhaul.

Here is the old link. Mike's pictures are not being hosted anymore but the discussion is still valid.

Mike's fuel tank and other stuff

Thanks to Britton for doing the searchy thing in my absence.

Yes, I did the Tempo model 12S fuel tank.
Making an elbow for the fuel fill hose requires some..... creativity.... in such tight confines.
Looking back, I wish I had relocated the fuel fill deck fitting forward to have it closer to the tank. The three or four feet of damn near horizontal hose run currently makes fueling a painfully slow process, it will only swallow about three quarts per minute. Not a huge deal, a 3-gallon red can is more than adequate for a weekend.
I'm also not convinced that the effort expended to fit the model 12S tank vs whatever-the-shorter-one-is was worthwhile. Yes, I have oodles of locker space now for fenders and floaties and such, but I don't think that the utility of the locker would have been so severely compromised by the other tank.

Hawgdawg,

My view on A-4 vs. diesel is very close to Britton's. If I need to repower one day I will probably consider diesel but mine is running well now so why fix something ths is not broken. Then there is always the outboard option. This is a very volatile top so I will stay away from it.

I recently replaced my west coast built in fiberglass tank with a bilge tank that fits under the Triton cockpit in the same general location as Britton's. It is made by Moeller Marine and it holds 18 gallons. Here is the link to Oceanlink Inc. (http://www.oceanlinkinc.com/tanks/fgalsrch.asp) which is the retailer I bought from. It cost me $320 something (including shipping and tax) so it is a little cheaper than a custom one, although it does not fit the Triton bilge as snug as Britton's custom tank. I built a wooden platform with some mahogany someone else at my marina threw out. I will take some pictures and post on this forum.



Good luck with whatever solution you decide on. What I learned from this project is that the best solution for one person may not be, and most likely is not, the best solution for another person since individual uses are bound to be different.

Best regards,

Ray

Well, I pulled the old tank out tonight and jettisioned it. I sat down and began to think of other areas for a tank. I came up with an idea that maybe two 10 gallon tanks port and starboard would work if I raised the settee height and hinged the plywood (you guys that were in the Navy should know what I mean). A port and starboard tank would even the weight and if one should become contaminated I could switch to the other. Being under the settee would give easy access. Does anyone see any problem with this? By the way I have decided to sell the Atomic 4 and switch to diesel.

How tall are you? Stock settee height juuuuust about lets a 6' person sit without bumping their head on the underside of the side decks.

10 or 20 gallons of fuel doesn't mean much in terms of trimming ballast, particularly when located so low.

Tanks beneath the settees would necessarily be broad and shallow, not good for motorsailing (heeled) or motoring through sloppy sea with less than half-full tanks.

Complicated fuel supply system, additional fittings and valves, additional opportunity for air bubbles, etc.

Summary: Not worth the complication or effort. Put a normal tank in a normal location, go sailing sooner.

I use the space under my settees for the storage of drinks, canned goods and such while cruising. I keep the boat stocked with beer and soft drinks all season using this space for storage. I find it just way too convenient to consider losing it to systems stuff. Factor in Figment's considerations and I surely wouldn't put the tanks there. We all have different needs and opinions, but this is my 2¢.

I agree, Dave. I cruised on one boat that had the space under both settees devoted to tankage, and it was a loss of some very useful and handy space. The bilge, on the other hand (not the deep sump but the shallower area between the settees) was open for stowage; but that had more limited uses.

On the other boat, it was the opposite: The water tanks were in the bilge section that's beneath the sole between the settees, and the space under the settees was stowage. That was fantastic and seemed like a better division. Water tanks were in a space that can be damp/wet, and stores were up where they were easy to get to and less likely to encounter bilge water.

Granted, both these boats were in the 30-32' and 14,000 to 20,000 dispacement range, so they were larger, but I would still be reluctant to use the space under the settees for tankage. On the other hand, on smaller boats such as the Triton, the space under the galley at the aft end/corner is not that accessible. So I'd vote for the tank there.

Rachel

Rachel wrote: On the other hand, on smaller boats such as the Triton, the space under the galley at the aft end/corner is not that accessible. So I'd vote for the tank there.

There's virtually no space there between the hull and the settees.



Really, one of the cockpit lockers or beneath the cockpit sole itself is the best place for a tank on a Triton, given all the limitations and other considerations. The space beneath the settees is too valuable for other stowage.

Hi Tim,

I think I gave the wrong impression there, and made it sound like I was advocating an installation under the settee. The area I was thinking of (but failed to convey properly) is the one used when Triton folks take the (existing or new) tank that was in the starboard cockpit locker and "push it forward" so that it extends partway under the galley. At least in my A-30, that particular bit of stowage was pretty inconvenient to access.

Here's a photo of the one I was thinking of, Jim Bisonette's #577:



This was on Triton MIR, here:

http://www.tritonclass.org/mir/577fueltank.html


Rachel

I can actually think of a number of uses for the space under the galley:

1. Extra batteries - I currently use it for two group 27 batteries (I know the weight, off center, etc...)
2. Fuel tank - as Rachel suggested and Jim demonstrated (I know the smell if diesel is contemplated, and fire danger if gas is contemplated).
3. Hot water heater - as in Kaholee's setup (that's probably the best use I can think of if hot water is desired).
4. Trash bin - I can't find any space to put a trash bin on a Triton.
5. Ice box - can accommodate a smallish ice box and open the original icebox space up for a nice navigation table/radio locker (as in Atom's setup).

Best regards,

On Deep Blue I suspended an eleven gallon Tempo tank from beneath the cockpit sole, aft of the packing gland. This modification was made while converting the A-4 to a Yanmar 2GM. I have experienced some problems with fuel feed in heavy weather, This tank has no baffles. Current plans contemplate a custom tank. Does anyone have information concerning fiberglass diesel tanks? I hope these ideas help Phil