Stanchion placement

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:52 pm

... and sheet tracks really.

I lost internet for several days so I have a bit of catch up to do. Pictures to follow this evening but in the meantime...

The cover is off my boat, the decks are cleared of all hardware, the toe rails (after a lot of soul searching) are in small pieces in the dumpster. Fresh decks ready for a complete makeover.

In another case of might-as-well-itis, I was thinking I would put some solid core under the stanchion bases. Before that I need to verify where the stanchions are going to be. Is there any reason to stick with the stock Triton placements? I was thinking of moving the middle stanchion forward to provide a larger clear spot for the genoa sheet tracks directly on the deck instead of on the toerail.

And to piggy-back another question onto this thread; where should I locate the sheet tracks? Or rather, where do other Tritons locate theirs? I had four tracks per side on my boat; one for the #1 jib, two for the genoa (located in line with each other and installed in such a way as to make the rearmost one difficult to get the car onto it) and the fourth track was around the tiller for the spinnaker sheet I am guessing.
(Pictures tonight - boat work during the day)

I had the spinnaker cut into an assymetrical. Do I really need a track for it or can I just have a block near the stern?

My genny is 140-145% and I think I had my car adjusted as far forward as I could get it the entire season that I actually sailed my boat. Could be I don't know how to adjust sails or perhaps they were positioned improperly.

Are there standard placements that works for other Tritons or am I going to have to experiment with this?

- really gotta visit the boat now -

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:35 pm

Well, sheet leads vary so much depending on the cut of your sails... I'd say that at least to some degree you will be looking at some experimentation once the boat is rigged. I ended up placing my tracks after the boat was in the water. I went out with a helper on a very light air evening and experimented literally holding the jib sheet in different locations.

As for stanchions, I don't think there is any reason to stick wiht the stock placements. I think the thing to do is decide where you want your forward gate stancion, then place the others so that they look more or less even given your spacing for the gate and the remaining space on deck. I think you will find that you can work around the stanchions for your leads pretty much regardless of where you ultimately end up putting them.

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:59 am

I think you'll probably find that evenly spacing your three stanchions between the bow and stern pulpits will end up being a good choice, and will leave you adequate room for genoa tracks, as well as not interfering with your cockpit winch placement (and winch handle clearance).

Even placement between bow and stern rails is covered in some detail on the Kaholee project pages.

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:02 am

As to sheet lead placement, I agree that experimentation is the best way. The "original" genoa tracks on a Triton were optimized for use with the 170% genoas that were common in that day in age. Today's smaller headsails typically require the lead much further forward. Unless your lead that you used previously ended up right in line with the forward corner of the cockpit, anticipating a new genoa track just forward of that area should serve you well, as well as clear the stanchion that will end up even with the forward end of the cockpit if you choose to evenly space them between your pulpits.

jhenson · Post by **jhenson** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:18 am

Are your stanchions vertical, or do they have a slight angle toward the centerline of the boat?

Post by **Tim** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:01 pm

The stanchions should be vertical; the bases will typically have an angle (often 5?) to compensate for the deck camber.

Stanchions that aren't visually vertical don't look very good. A very slight angle is OK.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:03 am

Not to change the thread too much, but I would like to know your thoughts on track length on a Triton? What is a good all-round size?

Thanks

Post by **Tim** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:28 am

Triton 185 wrote:Not to change the thread too much, but I would like to know your thoughts on track length on a Triton? What is a good all-round size?

Thanks

4' per side will cover a wide inventory of headsails on Tritons and is probably the ideal length. I wouldn't go shorter than this, though depending on your sail inventory you could get by with less if you felt you truly needed to. I know of a Triton that has 2' tracks only. Likewise, you shouldn't need 6' tracks either, particularly since the smallest headsails on Tritons should be sheeted to a separate inboard track. A 4' track would cover you from 170% down to 110% or so, after which you'd likely need to change to a different track regardless.

My next boat will have tension-adjustable sheet leads. You find these on racing boats a lot, but I think they make more sense for cruisers with roller furling/reefing headsails, since the sheet lead should move forward as you reef the sail.

The way it is now, unless I know I'm settling into a long haul with the reefed sail, moving the leads usually goes by the wayside, which doesn't help the sail shape any. Ease of use for any sail control translates to more frequent and appropriate use of that control. I like to make my sails work as well as they can, but as a lazy cruiser I want it to be easy to do so.

Triton 185 · Post by **Triton 185** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:04 pm

Hey Tim.....It looks like the system in the picture does not have cars with bearings. Would you have to adjust these when the car is not loaded?

Post by **Tim** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:36 pm

To be honest, I just grabbed a convenient picture for illustration purposes. I have no idea about the inner workings of this particular system, but the whole point would be to be able to adjust under load, so that criterium should factor into the decision for sure.

sailman · Post by **sailman** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:15 am

Tim et al,

I will probably be assisting on a Triton reburbishment in the coming months. I have a question about getting access to the stanchions next to the cockpit (forward of the winches). This Triton does not have cockpit lockers, just the below seat cubbies. My thought would be to cut into the teak coamings, below deck level and attain access to the stanchion bases and then fitting as a cubby similar to other Pearson's (i.e. P30).

Thanks,

Will Museler

Post by **Tim** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:35 am

That's one of those situations where you have to do what you have to do to gain access. Sometimes you come up against a piece of hardware that just isn't accessible through normal means.

I obviously don't know the exact setup on the boat in question. Often, you can gain access from inside the cabin, over the galley and/or icebox units, depending. Check into this before you start cutting. This may vary from boat to boat.

Otherwise, if you can't crawl into the lockers through those small openings (and who can), and don't have any small children at your immediate disposal, then cutting an access hole may be the only way. As you suggest, the hole should be designed to be either hidden when complete, or with some other post-use function in mind.

What if you remove the coamings and make a cut in the fiberglass, which you can then repair and/or hide with the coamings' reinstallation later?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:41 am

I would remove the teak coamings before I cut them. There are only like six screws holding them in. Make a cut behind them and you will never see the cut after the coamings are replaced.

Alternately, you could remove some of the galley paneling and access the area from the inside. It is typically just screwed together.

Better yet, rip out the whole galley and icebox and build something better. Then you will have some great access!

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:41 am

Or, install a cockpit hatch and gain access to everything from below...

Post by **Tim** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:03 pm

MikeD wrote:Or, install a cockpit hatch and gain access to everything from below...

Unfortunately, that wouldn't help this particular situation, though. But install the cockpit hatch anyway! :<)

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:42 pm

If your galley is like mine on the east coast 101, both sides are installed as units with bronze flat head screws.

There are three screws on the dish shelf under the mahogany trim on the forward end, and one in the middle that captures the internal shelf. Behind the settee backs are another three screws. You'll need to take the settee backs off, which on mine involved removing the mahogany trim at the top, and taking loose 6 screws. The center divider/stiffener isn't bonded to the hull, and comes out with the rest of the board.

The mahogany trim on the forward side of the galley has to come off as it has a screw that goes into the plywood support tabbed to the hull. Then beside the engine are two wooden battens that support the engine box. They extend down to the settee sides, so you'll need to remove those screws too. The top one didn't need any screws removed on mine.

After that pull the two drawers out of the front, reach inside and loosen the hose clamp hose coming off the sink. If you do this floating, poke a stick or wire through the drain and see how high the column of water is in the tube. Lighten the boat till she's floating high.

Clear out a path and slide towards the center of the boat, while pulling foward. The plastic wood grain extends over to the plywood support on the hull, you may need a putty knife to loosen it up. Lift up to clear the hose for the sink drain, as there is a divider in the middle of the galley that separates the cubby in the back from the drawers side.

Now you'll see a plywood wall with two locking tabs, turn those. My boat had electrical outlets cut in them, so I pulled the outlets and reached through to gain leverage. They haven't been removed in a while, so work a putty knife around the gap, and apply some percussion persuasion with a thin finish nail pulling prybar till they come loose.

The icebox requires you remove the mahogany trim. Then slip a putty knife under the countertop. It is thin plywood and held on with finish screws under the formica. With this out of the way remove the styrofoam hunks. With the settee backs out of the way remove the screws on that side. I think there were three of them. Again on the engine compartment you have two wooden battens, remove the lower one. Loosen the drain hose clamp and remove the hose.

The icebox is gooped in with black foam rubber tape that you'll have to cut through. I used a serrated knife pocket knife, and a fillet knife for the corners. I went at it from the cockpit side. Remove the screws behind the backs of the settee, as well as the wooden batten that captures the lid for the engine box, I think only the lower one needs to come loose.

Slide it toward the engine and rotate the side closest to the center of the boat forward, as the outside edge is trapped behind the plywood support.

Remove the plywood door.

Tools: You'll need a super stubby flat blade screwdriver, a long flatblade with a square shank or hex at the handle (Klein are a nice fit.) Do not start this job until you have a screwdriver that seats out in the screws perfectly. Your dealing with chromed bronze flat head fasteners, tighten a little and then loosen to break them loose. For the most part you get one good try, and if it strips your up a creek... so use the tightest fitting screwdriver you can and go slow.

I had both sides out in an afternoon and the icebox in the back of the suburban the next morning... its not a tough job, just slow at times.

I'd say if you aren't planning on capsizing her, you could cut the wooden supports for the engine box. Those were the two hardest screws to get loose, I assume because of the heat cycling of the engine.

I gave a try at getting the bilge blower out via the cockpit locker, and wedged my 6 foot 190lb frame in. Quite frankly I'd rather cut an access hole in the top of the deck than shimmy into that hole head first. Its not a question of working in there... its a question of getting out! Its like working under the dash board of a car, just more comfortable... but those lockers are juussst long enough to fully get inside. If they were smaller you could leave the feet hanging out the side and exit by doing a handstand and walking backwards, then getting the shoulders lined up to exit. (I got stuck for 15 minutes the first time getting out...)

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:46 pm

I have another idea...

Drill out the fasteners and move the stantions to the other side of the bulkhead... and fill the holes. Abandon the backing plates in place.

Tape up the top, grab a dremel or die grinder with a cone shaped stone. Get to the bottom of the screw's slot. Center punch and drill with a 1/8th drillbit. Take a small punch and give it a smack. The screw should break off, and leave your stantion bases untouched.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:37 pm

There are three screws on the dish shelf ...

A big hammer is quicker ;-)

sailman · Post by **sailman** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:33 am

Thank you all for the replies.

Well the deal has gone through and we are the owners of hull # 42. She is in very good shape, really the only isse is these two stanchions. The previous owner took exceedingly good care of her for the past 44 years and her family were the second owners!

How easy is it to remove the teak coaming? I think that would be the best way to access it. Looking from the main cabin there is just too much interference to make it worth while. My plan is to unmount the stanchion and pull as much rotten core out as possible through the existing holes. Then dry it as much as possible and fill in with epoxy and colloidial silica. The re-drill the holes and put oversized stainless plates on top and bottom.

Will Museler

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu May 01, 2008 2:51 pm

#42 used to be in Marblehead MA. Is the boat still in the area? I am up the road in Rowley.