Traveler under structure

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:55 pm

When I had my boat surveyed the surveyor found a lot of water under the poop deck and suggested a re-core might be needed at some point.

Well, I made a large cutout the other day for an access hatch and was surprised to find only good, clean, dry balsa coring in the removed portion and around the edges. I thought I had lucked out. Today, when I was undercutting the balsa around the new access hole a bit to seal it from the elements I found the bad core... lots of it. Just behind the clean coring around the hole is a mass of waterlogged and rotten core. I guess the surveyor knew what he was talking about after all. There appears to be a gap in the aftermost section of the deck where there is an airspace. With the improperly installed stern rail letting in water, the water then has a perfectly clear channel along the entire aft section of the poop deck to explore and otherwise cause problems.

That isn't why I started the thread though. In my diggings I found on the forward edge of the aft deck, where I had a traveler mounted, that the core, while dry and fluffy, was totally separated from the skin.

So the question is: Could the coring have become separated from the stress of the traveler system? If, as I imagine, the mainsheet exerts a lot of force on the aft deck, so much so that the coring can separate, maybe I should beef up the coring using solid fiberglass laminate or something?

Thoughts?

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:11 pm

Interesting. I really would suspect shoddy construction to be at fault here rather than stress. I mean, with a traveller, that load is really spread out over a large area, and mostly supported from beneath with a backing plate (right???) so I would be surprised.

That said, stranger things have happened! Maybe your surveyor will have some insight...

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:17 pm

Well, in my case, the "backing plates" were odd looking (as in triangular- an inch or two in length) fiberglass bits just where the bolts went through.

Come to think of it... did the late model Tritons come with a traveler setup? or was it something a PO would have added?

Shoddy construction is always a possibility. If my surveyor is still in the boat business maybe he will check in...

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:46 pm

The mostly-tensile force of a hardened mainsheet is spread over the area of the bolts and backing plates fairly well.
The shear force generated by the impact of a jackass-gybe is another matter, particularly if the car runs right to the stop with no line to absorb the shock.

Your traveler is mounted in the forward reigon of the poop deck, not on the ridge that breaks this deck from the cockpit well? Curious.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:29 pm

Late model Triton = no molded ridge on poop deck.

My poop deck is level (well cambered too) forward of the taffrail. There used to be a 1 inch high piece of teak on the front edge that seemed to do the same thing as your ridge.

From your picture I can tell that we both have/had the travelers installed in the same position.

What's under your "ridge"?

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:28 am

bcooke wrote:If my surveyor is still in the boat business maybe he will check in...-Britton

Man, you're tough! I guess turnabout is fair play! Wow.

Some people are working their tushies off trying to move, build a house and move & run an ongoing business--yet, despite all this, it would seem the dedication to the boat business, and this forum, is as strong as ever, if temporarily less frequent.

I guess maybe you just got too complacent with the incredible immediacy and generosity of the replies over the past couple years, and now cannot wait a day or two? Or maybe it's that high-paced metropolitan lifestyle down there on the North Shore that causes you to expect and demand instantaneous results?

All in good fun, of course!

bcooke wrote:What's under your "ridge"?

The raised ridge on the earlier model deck mold is solid fiberglass--none too thick or beefy, but adequate.

A traveler (and, similarly, your genoa track) works because the very design spreads the load over a very wide area, with numerous bolt locations. The actual stress is fairly minimal on any single fastener at any given time, which is why one really needs only large fender washers beneath the bolts. Full-length backing plates are great, but it is often challenging--or even impossible--to install such a thing in many boats.

I suspect your unbonded core is a direct result of the construction practices of the day. Debonding, where the skin releases from the core material, is caused because of a lack of proper technique in bonding the materials together in the first place. Lessons learned over the years have led to improved bonding techniques that now tend to hold the core in place, but it is very common for this sort of problem to occur, particularly when the coring was barely held in place with some sort of polyester-soaked mat, or feeble polyester "adhesive".

Besides, if anything, your traveler through bolts actually have the effect of compressing the whole sandwich structure together when tightened and under load. Damage caused as a result of the traveler stress would be very different indeed from what you are seeing.

Solid material or a non-compressible core would be a better situation if you're going to rebuild the area.

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:52 am

Tim wrote:
bcooke wrote:If my surveyor is still in the boat business maybe he will check in...-Britton
Man, you're tough! I guess turnabout is fair play! Wow.

To be fair, I think Britton was simply self-referencing an earlier post where he posited that you had simply dumped boating in favor of house building and turned the keys to the asylum...er... forum... over to me. Not complaining about the lack of response like he did in that other notorious post!

;-)

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:54 pm

Exactly.

But I probably deserved the rebuke in any case :-)

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:05 pm

Oh, you always deserve a rebuke, Britton...

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:11 pm

Are you what they call a "switch hitter"? First you bat for one side and then just as easily you swing the other way...

The Blatherer wrote:Some people are working their tushies off trying to move, build a house and move & run an ongoing business--yet, despite all this... blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Hmmm... am I the only one to notice that several of these pictures that come down from Boatbarn V2.0 inadvertently include a vehicle that appears quite new in the early photos and quite dusty as the project commences? This is no ordinary vehicle I am speaking about. I am talking (or rather writing) about the frequent sitings of... wait for it... an honest to god, real live, JOHN DEERE TRACTOR!!!

Which is what led me to initially question whether Tim is remaining in the boat business. He moves North, builds a barn, buys a tractor (a mighty fine one at that!) and yet he claims to still be in the boat business!

Maybe it is just me, but one of the few things that could get me away from looking at boats is the sight of a shiny new tractor. I maintain my suspicion that Tim is suffering the same maledy. I know if I had a tractor to play with all day I wouldn't be typing away on this forum either.

All in good fun of course :-)

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:17 pm

Tim the Magnamious wrote:Solid material or a non-compressible core would be a better situation if you're going to rebuild the area.

Done. Thanks.

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:44 pm

Magnamious?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:57 pm

I like to mix it up and keep everyone on their toes.

Are you disputing the title?

That, and I am hoping my flattery will allow Tim to overlook my recent posting transgression(s)...

-Britton