Brilliant Idiocy (Or: What Were They Thinking?)

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Tim
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Brilliant Idiocy (Or: What Were They Thinking?)

Post by Tim »

A pleasant story, brought to you by the weirdos at Pearson.

So, one fine afternoon I decided to remove the head discharge seacock--the only one remaining on the Daysailor, Triton hull #100. Fine and dandy. An earlier investigation into its installation showed that it was rather unusual: no bronze (or other) through hull fitting was actually installed, despite the fact that a full and proper seacock was installed on the inside. Instead, there was one of the ubiquitous fiberglass tubes visible from the outside.

(Aside: interestingly enough, I received an email a few months back from a fellow with a C&C who had an installation similar to this. This is something new for me--I've never seen a seacock installed over a fiberglass tube. But anyway...)

Inside the boat, bolt heads were visible on the seacock flange. No corresponding sign indicating that these were throughbolts was observed on the outside, so I figured that the seacock must be lagged into the built-up fiberglass--and presumably wood--backer inside the boat.

After a couple attempts to remove these bolts/lags from inside with the lame tools I had on board (demolition quality only), I finally jumped on board with a selection of wrenches in hand to get those lags out and remove the seacock, which was becoming increasingly in the way. With a modicum of chipping of accumulated paint and, as it turned out, fiberglass, the silly square-head (thank God people got away from these annoying things) bronze lags came right out with no particular problem. Cooooooool.

But, alas. The seacock would not budge. It turns out that the brilliant folks at Pearson decided that it would be a good idea to set the seacock in a bed of wet fiberglass. Because, naturally, it would never need replacing right? After all, the Triton was a throwaway boat, never intended for such longevity. (Hint to wannabe throwaway boat builders: don't build your hulls 1" thick and strong enough to take anything.)

Image

The long and the short of it is (well, there's never really a short with me, as you faithful followers surely know (and love?) by now) that this seacock is firmly entrenched in the bed of fiberglass, and, as of this writing, attempts to free it, or to even see a glimmer of hope, are a dismal failure.

So: Triton #100 has a bronze head discharge seacock, bedded in wet fiberglass and screwed to a fiberglass-encapsulated wooden backer block inside the hull, installed over a fiberglass tube with no external through hull fitting. My main point here is that this is substantially different from other Tritons I have experience with.

For the record, #381 Glissando had a bronze mushroom through hull on both the head intake and discharge, each equipped with bronze seacocks that, unfortunately, could not be saved. These seacocks were throughbolted to the hull, and this was most definitely the original configuration Pearson was using at that time.
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Post by dasein668 »

Only one solution: 5 lb sledge! hehe

That sure is a strange installation...

You could probably undercut it with a grinder....
Dave 397

seacock installs

Post by Dave 397 »

For what ever it's worth, 397's seacocks were completely lacking in thru bolts, yet they were rather well "bedded" to the hull with who knows what...not any sort of recognizable bedding compound for sure. Very, very stuck. I wanted to save 'em, so I kicked the living snot out of the small one to get it loose. Couldn't believe there were no thru-bolts on the large one, ground a bit in search of some sort of phantom countersunk non-fasteners that were not visible with the paint scraped clean to the gelcoat...popped it loose with judicious use of a porta-power.

Speaking of tools, boy oh boy! Uses for me are few and far between, but it is nice to have when you need it. It has good usage with the little jaws of life looking shoe attatchment when you need to get in between two pieces and blow 'em apart, too! Makes a great controlled pushing tool, of course, but I think they are undervalued as a demo aid.

Dave
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Post by Tim »

Dave,

What's a "porta power"?
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Post by Figment »

#78's head discharge had a mushroom on the outside, but still the flange of the seacock was set in 'glass on the inside, just like #100. No lagbolts, though.

I swear, if the previous owner hadn't indicated that this seacock was responsible for the partial-sinking incident, I would've backtracked and left it in place. As it was, I got it off by fracturing the fiberglass around the flange with the ol' hammer-and-screwdriver technique, and then jammed a 3' crowbar down in the throat and hauled off on it. Of course, this took with it some of the wooden base block, which I then had to fill flush to seat the replacement seacock, but I got that nasty old thing outta there!

Do you think the glass tube on #100 extends UP INTO the seacock, or do you think the seacock is basically just stuck over the top of a hole in the hull?
Dave 397

Porta-power

Post by Dave 397 »

Tim wrote:Dave,

What's a "porta power"?
I think that "porta-power" was blackhawk's trade name for them a gazillion years ago (like "sawzall")

The tool in question is properly called a "portable hydraulic ram". Take a look in an industrial or autobody tool outlet.
Basically, you have your hand operated hydraulic pump, and the ram with various length extension bars and pushing feet...you can get out over 4 feet with most of the brands by sticking all the extension bars together. All goes in a nifty case that weighs about as much as my Honda car.

Best,
Dave
kaynee30

Pearson Quality

Post by kaynee30 »

I ran into a guy named Pinault at the Armchair Sailor Bookstore in Newport once. Naturally we spoke of sailing and Tritons. Turns out he was employed at Pearson in Bristol in the mid-sixties, and had a hand in laying up more than a few Tritons. He told me that by the second years' production, labor was getting thin and they imported Portuguse immigrants from Fall River on busses...many of whom spoke no english....and labored for small dollars...to work at the plant. By that time, says he, supervision was getting a bit lax; and Ev, et al , were not around much. The main thing was to get product out, and supplies were always running short. The employees--prone to have imbibed copious amounts of adult beverage--were expert at putting out product using whatever may have been available....and making stuff up outta nuthin'. If work got a little thin, they would add some extra layup to the hulls. Their main point was to stay busy....and employed. This might explain some of the hull-thickness variances we've observed,( like Tim's extra, extra thick hull). If things were cranking, the guys would skimp a bit on schedules (must have been hummin' when Dasein was assembled) , and tolerances and alignments for parts were less apt to be tolerably aligned....
So there you have one plausible explanation to "what were they thinking?"
Tritons were built by unsupervised Fall River Portagees.
I can say this......I'm half Fall River Portagee.
Shoot, that seacock warn;'t goin' nowhere, man: they gummed it in there real good., and it never came out. If you want the Portagee solution to the problem, allow me to advise: leave it there and fill it with concrete. Done.
kaynee

Post by kaynee »

Triton: The Boat Wine Built.
Sorry if I've offended any of me countrymen....the Irish half o' me don't give a rat's galbeharragh, though. hic*
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Re: Pearson Quality

Post by dasein668 »

kaynee30 wrote: (must have been hummin' when Dasein was assembled)
Well that's interesting... but I wouldn't exactly call my hull "thin"--better than half inch in some places! Still, its not nearly as thick as Tim's hull...
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Post by Tim »

kaynee wrote:Shoot, that seacock warn;'t goin' nowhere, man: they gummed it in there real good., and it never came out. If you want the Portagee solution to the problem, allow me to advise: leave it there and fill it with concrete. Done.
Lessee...a frozen seacock with no proper through hull, located on a rotted, water-filled platform (literally) in a boat that is being completely stripped out in order to be rebuilt in a different way for a different purpose, which would lead to the fitting being in the wrong place anyway...among all the other issues at hand.

I think not! Out it will come. Besides, the only through hull I anticipate in the Daysailor will be for the engine intake.

I want this nice bronze seacock as a trophy, anyway.
Figment wrote:Do you think the glass tube on #100 extends UP INTO the seacock, or do you think the seacock is basically just stuck over the top of a hole in the hull?
I would guess that the glass tube extends only into the wood/glass platform, and that the seacock is glassed over the top. But it might extend up--we'll find out soon enough!
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Post by Figment »

Perpetuating the quotefest.....
kaynee wrote:Triton: The Boat Wine Built.
Hey, if you're going to build a boat with wine, it might as well be portugese!!! That portugese wine packs a wonderful whallop.

Waxing nostalgic....... When I lived in Bristol, my next-door neighbor was portugese (spoke no english except for the words "we call police!") and made his own wine from the grapes he grew on the arbor over his driveway (any of this sound familiar, FallRiver Jeff?). Every once in a while my portugese housemate would talk a free jug of wine out of him, along with some kind of homemade clear firewater. That stuff was just deadly.
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Brilliant Idiocy (Or: What Were They Thinking?)

Post by JetStream »

Tim,
The seacocks that I removed from Jet Stream were different than anything I had seen before. Instead of the seacock having female threads for a male through hull fitting, they all had male threads that went through the hull and accepted a flush (countersunk) nut from the bottom. Your nut may even be fiberglassed in from the bottom.
Bruce
Dave, 397

the boat that wine built

Post by Dave, 397 »

Hmmm...the bit about the homegrown grapes and the factory in the basement--that sounds like mary's stories about her grandpa in Bristol!

I may have mentiones this before, but after mary's dad retired from the navy in '63, he went to work at pearson's. as soon as they found out he could yell at people in portugese, they made him a foreman in the spar shop!

Also, correspondance i have recieved from Milton Thrasher (the man who sailed with Alberg aboard Carl's Commander) recalling his visit to the plant in the early sixties to see his newly-ordered Ariel being finished supports the story about the portugese labor force to the degree that most of the laborers he tried to speak to apparently had no english at all besides "hello".

This part of the boat's history is , I think, just as valuable as blueprints in understanding the construction and over-engineering in the boats...well built, indeed yes. Carefully built? At How many units a year? Hah! Make it beefier, and it will forgive a multitude of sins in production !

Dave
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Post by Tim »

An Update on the Glassed-in Seacock

Yesterday, I managed to get the seacock out by hammering a large screwdriver beneath one edge and slowly increasing pressure. I soon heard the telltale crackling of a loosening bond, and before long the seacock was free. The problem I had earlier was that I didn't happen to have any tool thin enough, and long enough, to properly pry the thing up.

The fiberglass tube that formed the through hull extended about 1/2" into the body of the seacock, for those keeping track.

Pictures should be on the site for the next update.
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Sailbob

Triton Seacock

Post by Sailbob »

Have you tried heating the sezcock. It perchance it was epoxied in, about 375 degrees with a heat gun might free it with no damage to the surrounding hull etc.

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Post by Tim »

Thanks for the response. As it happens, the seacock in question has been out now for well over a year and has been long forgotten! (This thread was from June 2003). In the end, I got it out with some pressure from a th in blade beneath the seacock, which was installed in a bed of resin mash. Eventually the fitting popped out of the mess and all was well.
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