44' Edson Schock cutter

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:49 am

I had a thread under the 'Splinter Group' that I had promised to update with pictures but it seems to have been edited away when the Splinter group disapeared.

In short, I had an offer to pick up a big wooden classic at a low price. Most of my brain says 'Run Away!' but there is a little piece that keeps coming back to the idea. Yesterday, my girlfriend started re-thinking the idea so we went back and took some pictures.

The idea has never to been to 'restore' the aging classic but rather find a place to live and 'save' a classic from further deterioration. This boat had the hull largely rebuilt about 7 years ago but my friend just started losing interest after launch. This is is third or fourth major rebuild and he is getting up there in age (68) and just lost interest somewhere. The hull is strong, the interior looks like a hermit has been living inside- which is exactly what has been happening. At the moment he is out living a normal life and the boat has just been sitting on the mooring all year round for the past three years unmoved.

The Triton is the priority and fits my life quite well. This boat might make a nice floating barge type home for a few years. The trick would be to avoid the temptation to update the systems. The hull and deck need major sanding and painting and varnishing. Everything is dry inside. The mast really needs to come down for refinishing and I wouldn't sail too far on the current rigging. The sails have been furled on the booms for the whole three years which can't be good. So as a sailboat it is out of my league. As a floating home it might be okay. Its a pretty cool boat, built in 1938 in San Diego by a top notch yard, designed by Edson Schock a premier designer, heavily built to high standards, sailed all over the Atlantic, Mediteranean, South Africa and back with a complete set of logs detailing the boats entire history. Definitely a cool boat. Totally out of my league and yet... I can't bring her to her full glory but I can keep her from being neglected to death until such time as 'someone' can be found to bring her back. The Triton will be 'done' in just a year or so...

Anyway; pictures

Side view. The wide angle lens shortens the real look of that 60' mast.

Stern view.

Cluttered decks.

Cockpit. Unfortunately, the pictures got a bit washed out and you can't see the condition of the decks. They are plywood/fiberglass covered with a dull paint job. They are sound but not very beautiful.

Interersting side entry into the cabin.

Julie will kill me if she sees this shot but it is the best forward cabin shot I have.

Galley starboard.

Galley port.

Aft cabin. Having an aft cabin is cool...

This photo is just to show the bed posts. Ignore the loose door laying against the wall. The boat is full of nice woodworking details like this along with some pretty common looking modifications.

The 'nav station'. This area also used to keep several five gallon buckets of bolts that I shamed my buddy into getting rid of. Believe it or not, this is the 'cleaned up' version of the boat.

Okay, the head needs updating...

So, there are the long promised pictures. If anyone on this board is actually interested in an older wooden classic I can put you in touch with the owner. I am really more interested in saving the boat than in drowning in an enormous boat project.

She is a beautiful boat that's gone a bit crusty. She has been all over and is a very sound boat. My rough estimate was $20k for updated rigging and sails, another $10k for systems (which are pretty basic as-is) and at least $10k to cover the fact that I always come in too low. She isn't a cheap boat to go cruising in. I think she is one of those boats that deserve the attention though.

I would say there is a 5% chance I will move onboard and use it as a floating home. There is a 95% chance that I will run away screaming. I would have to find a way to keep the Triton my priority and that sounds pretty unrealistic to me.

Anyway, I have fulfilled my promise with the pictures.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:52 am

Argh, why did I even click on this. Now I can't stop thinking about it.

:forces self to close window:

:does not make desktop wallpaper with gorgeous interior shot:

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:37 am

:does not make desktop wallpaper with gorgeous interior shot:

Julie thanks you :-)

David · Post by **David** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:53 pm

Step away from the boat now.

No matter how shippey she is below, and she is certainly that, you will find yourself saying "Hush" to your girl friend so you can listen for the sound of trickling water, like a tiny brook. In the midst of conversations, you will interrupt yourself to interject, "Was that the bilge pump again? Anybody else hear it? Anyone??" And your last thought before an otherwise restful sleep will be to wonder just how punky the garboard stakes are....

So, step away, light an expensive cigar with a hundred dollar bill and count your blessings.

David

jollyboat · Post by **jollyboat** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:42 pm

I don't know Britton - it looks pretty cool to me. No matter what your intentions are with your intended program it really comes down to whether or not you can afford to run the the boat. By the looks of the photos, a few days of "day laborers" with proper supervision and the old girl could look quite smart. If the engine runs, hull and decks are sound and it only needs basic TLC, paint and varnish I would say go for it. You might even ask the owner to just give it to you and let him get away from the liabililty of ownership. You take over as custodian w/ the owner having the right to ask for it back within a certain amount of time - say five years for example, with a clause that if you do not want to give it back at that point you have the option to buy boat then (five years from the take over time) at a price that reflects its current condition.

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:10 pm

I am not sure but I think a wooden boat will last longer in the water rather then drying out on a cradle during a long rebuild of the interior or what ever. Turning her into a house boat could be quite cheap. If you really decide not to sail her you could remove the mast (shudder). If you had good storage on the dock or where you moor your dinghy then you might be able to keep it zen and uncluttered inside. The aft cabin must be the library or art studio not the closet. If you spent two years at the dock you might be able to get by with an externally wired 110v power system. AKA extension cords rated to the load they are carrying. Did you want to move in before you cleaning her up? By the way, if you have been able to get that obviously intelligent and thoughtful woman to not only step on the boat but to suggest this course of action, then I would say the possibilities are positively magical.

Here I am sitting on your left shoulder with a short pointed goatee. I have lapped the surface of the sea with tongues of gold and story, remembering a past of fear and chaos reflected in tonight's twilight. Wood was once a tree breathing in the sunlight and storm, to dream held in this timber cocoon resting upon the dimpled surface of the waters would be a fine time indeed.

No need to answer these directly but I thought of them.
How much to obtain free and clear title?
How much a month to keep her afloat and comfortable?
Are you ready to walk away at the end of two years with nothing?

just my thoughts

r

Zach · Post by **Zach** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:54 pm

I've got to agree with David.

Big wood boats make plastic look easy. The boat bucks/boat units required are a lot higher for the same length and go on exponentially. The time involved is tripled. She will take every penny you have, if you open up any can of worms... anywhere. If you buy her, put on a blindfold and be comfortable that she might sink and stuff might be rotten. Shoot for innocence and don't educate yourself on any topic... "It's supposed to do that, wood boats always smell like that..."

Consider that having someone living on her with the ports open and a breeze blowing through is the best possible thing you can do for her. Keeping the water out of the bilge, and deck leaks stopped... if you do nothing else, will give her a few more years.

Otherwise:

Don't do it. If you are a tinkerer... don't do it. If you have a curiosity and will need to know her condition and lay awake at night.. don't do it.

The other project I'm working on is a 1942 83 foot wood boat, and have been slowly trudging from one end to the other for a few years.

Don't convince yourself that enough of it has been replaced to make her newer than what she is. She isn't. Unless she has been completly reframed, replanked, and refastened... there are problems. The worst places will be the ones that are hard to reach, repair, and inspect. In order for you to fix them... the interior has to come out. Wood boats interiors are built in, and assembled like furniture. Oh yeah... and when you go to put it back together nothing will fit. Uh huh... Yup. Think about that one.

Any freshwater, any lack of air flow... rot. Are those lovely bulwarks planked over frames that extend up through the deck with limber holes everywhere? Or are the built on top of the deck and fully enclosed? Does she have lovely trails of brownish goo coming from anywhere on her hull, inside, outside...

If the fiberglass on her deck is polyester... Hammer around and look for soft spots. What it saves in rot from the top down, it festers the plywood at any opening or break in the glass. Huge shifts in humidity (Like hauling her out for a few months) will strip the glass off. Any delaminated spot, or crack in the glass is a festering spot. Every spot you try to ignore that pops and clicks when you step on it... Every spot that has peeled loose from what is finished bright, is trapping water against her cabin sides.

Even epoxy peels off plywood decks done like that. If the corners do not have a massive fillet, the glass cracks along the edges letting water seep in. Corners of the cabin top, toe rail... little bulwarks. All of it, then it runs down hill. A leak at the bow eventually rots the whole length.

If you wish to proceed... Britton, my friend... Poke every inch of every frame. Poke every butt block, and inspect every inch of planking. Grab a sharp knife and a scratch awl. Remove a few fasteners. If they are stainless ring nails... good luck if you ever need to replace anything. Silicon bronze from the original build will disintegrate when you remove them in various shades of corrosion, pink and blue green... monel might still be intact. Probably though, the surrounding wood of the planking won't hold up to refastening, and you'll have to stagger the next one...

Spend a lot of time studying the garboard plank. You know, the one that nests in to a groove in the keel. Look at the top side, was wax or tar poured in to fill up that little track beside the keel to both seal, and keep water from rotting it out? I sure hope so... If she leaks from that seam, its going to drive you batty. Caulking that one is temporary at best... A LOT of wood boats have hydraulic cement poured in there to stop the leaks.

If the repairs and various refits are not similar... or are of unknown wood... beware. If she isn't dipped in cuprinol, and red lead, if the frames aren't bedded in to compound of some sort, good luck. Vulkem is good stuff.

If you want I can tell you stories of pulling 5 gallon buckets of frames out. (For weeks on end) Planking and frames so bad a screwdriver goes through both. Planks eaten away by galvanic action around every silicon bronze fastener in their length. Steamed frames which are completely rotten inside, but are hard on the outside. Cut them out and they turn to dust. Or cutting out ten feet of rotten keel with a chainsaw and chiseling down to the scarf to reconnect the stem and keel. Or the mundane, like having to laminate frames with the clamp boards still in place. (Bevel the ends so they don't dig into the hull... a little wax on the end is a good idea.) Most frames have a notch in which they are supposed to rest in the keel, hopefully under the wax and tar. It isn't exactly enjoyable work, and at times you'll wonder if the planks will spring from the hammering and prying to get things lined up...

If you buy it... The sawzall blades you want are made by Lenox they last the longest. The sawzall isn't a sawzall. Go to Northern Tool and Equipment and get their version, it is smaller. Put the blade in upside down so you can cut flush to things in tight spaces. Get the long blades, so you can flex the blade into a J shape so it lays flat to the hull to get in behind what you are trying to cut. Wood blades will cut metal fasteners, just hold her steady. With a little practice you can start the cut from the top and feel when the tip hits a plank and walk backwards from there... so you only cut out the rotten frame and don't even put a mark on the hull. Now... Do you really want to cultivate those skills?

Solid wood backing plates for through hull fittings are still bad news...

Lastly. No matter what you do, the hull will never be fair. You can spend the time getting a plastic boat finish. It'll look great until the humidity changes, and after the winter the caulking will have worked a little. Quit while you area ahead... protect her from the elements, and shoot for bristol, but not shiny. Surrender to the fact that you'll never see yourself in the finish on the hull for more than a year or two without doing it all over again.

If you are still thinking about it... What is she planked with? What are her frames made of? How long has she been in cold water. Do her decks leak at all? How much of her is original? Keel bolts? How about her stem and keel, dead wood and rudder? She's one old... old... wood boat.

I think most of us around here fight the same scales of balance... But if you have it in your mind to do anything beyond painting, hire a surveyor and fly to some tropical island while they look it over. Sit there with your favorite beverage and question what you'd rather do. If you open up the can of worms... 4 major refits on a 70 year old boat, means one every 17.5 years. You've got 10 years if you wait and delay, or you can get started on what needs doing and piddle with it for the rest of your life.

Zach - Forever tempted by the beautiful wood hulls of days gone by. There is one that haunts my dreams on occasion... That is so far gone you can see through her garboard planks... Beautiful, but wood boats cross from being a refit project, and turn into a lifes passion. It is a fine line... and much, much, further from going sailing than Plastic Classics...

David · Post by **David** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:14 pm

Zach,

You said it! The only exception that throws caution to the wind is if you are so old that you don't anticipate living long enough to need the next refit.

I helped haul out a very old Alden of 50 some odd feet at Nelson's yard in Titusville years ago. She needed bottom paint and this old fellow about 80 and his elderly wife told the travellift operator to go easy. In fact the operator stopped as soon as her keel cleared the water--the boat was bending up at her ends and looked to crack right in half. They got her out and blocked, but the blocks pushed up into her keel.

The old fellow was unconcerned, said she leaked from all her seams. He said it was no problem in the Intercoastal, since when the leaking would get too bad, he'd simply run her deep up into the mud and seal her up fine for a while. That boat was a beautiful thing two generations ago. I asked him if he was concerned with her leaking and and he said he wasn't planning to live that long.

How old are you Britton?

Good luck with her,

David