Well, where to begin?
First, one needs to talk about you—the Plastic Classic boat people. You've provided great entertainment and insight into the world of old boats. Special thanks to the "fabulous five" top posters. And to those that work on boats "for work" and spend private time helping those doing it "for fun." Tim of course is responsible for all this. The care and thought put into his website always is impressive; from what he writes, one knows his work has to be beautiful.
And briefly about me. Learned to sail on Tech dinghies and Rhodes Bantams at the local YC. Then the family had much fun with an old wood Lightning. A lapse of 15 years, and bought a tired 505, but almost never sailed it (no time, no interest in racing). Later with wife and sons was becalmed on the Potomac in a rented Flying Scot on a deadly hot DC day and decided the next boat either would have a motor or be easily paddled. Did the latter—pair of folding kayaks w/ sail rigs. Decent enough boats, with decided advantage of being bagged out of sight when not in use. A bit before the kayaks, bought a sailboard—great fun, but not yet a good windsurfer.
Never could rationalize a big boat without time to use it. That time is now. Just back from two years in Jakarta and have retired. On the way home, checked YachtWorld for a boat long of interest (thanks to postings here!) and saw it still for sale. Two days back in DC decided to see the boat the next weekend, but before making reservations, checked again and whoa!—price dropped $10k! Went the next day, liked the boat, made an offer and now own it. Further boat details at:
http://www.notworldbank.org-a.googlepages.com/
(Much is new these days, including the webpage—my first—so if unreadable, please advise.)
Plenty of work to do on the boat, but of course plenty of time available to do it.
Immediate plan is motoring from New Rochelle to Lake Ontario, the boat's new home. Have been spending recent days buying for the trip (note—better bargains at Target and Sears than West Marine...) and coming to grips with how little I know about piloting, diesel motors and boat complexity. Trust the old Perkins is up to the trip. Ran OK enough for the sea trial till it ran out of fuel. Not an experience eager to repeat.
Any advice for dad and sons (17 and 20) on the trip?
Brian
Ladies and gentlemen
-
BS Smith
- Deck Grunge Scrubber
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:03 pm
- Boat Name: #82
- Boat Type: LeComte NE38
- Location: Upstate NY/Outside DC
Ladies and gentlemen
Last edited by BS Smith on Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Chris Campbell
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:18 am
- Boat Name: Luna
- Boat Type: Yankee 30
- Location: Chester, NS
- Contact:
Congratulations, Brian!
I'm biased, of course, but I think the NE38 is one of the most beautiful boats ever built. And that they're built about as well as any other boat - as well as anyone knew how to when they were built, basically. We own hull #134, Weatherbird, and love her (thus the bias). So I'm sure you'll be happy with Norumbega, and once you've got the work she needs done, she should be a real joy to own!
If you haven't found it yet, check out the website at http://www.lecomteowners.com. It's got a fair bit of information on our boats, and gets more as I have time to put it up. The forums are a good place to ask LeComte-specific questions also - although these forums of Tim's are frequented by many of the same people, in addition to benefiting from the other very knowledgeable folks that hang out here. If you have information you'd like up on the owner's site, let me know and I'll happily put it up. For now I'll put up a link to your site, and probably some of your photos, as well as updating the owner information for Norumbega. Oh - what is your hull #?
As far as what to do before you take off for Lake Ontario (speaking of which - what will your home port be? Are you taking the Eerie Canal to get home? I came the other way as a teenager with my family, we bought a boat in Toronto and sailed her back to Fredericton, NB), from a read of the survey it looks like you've got a few things that would be good ideas right away: stern light, autopilot, fire extinguishers, engine exhaust hose, and engine cooling system seem like the ones that I wouldn't do without, myself. The rest are cosmetic, related to rig, or can be done without, and if you're motoring home the rig can wait. The most serious problem to my eye is the chainplate issue - one of the Medalists on the west coast went out for a sail and lost one on each side (lowers, thankfully, so the rig stayed in) - if you've got hull bulges then you've definitely got rust, which means they're not as strong as they should be. I personally wouldn't sail the boat before addressing that (and the cracked swage, of course).
If you don't already own them, I'd recommend three books as a minimum library before you set out: Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual, Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual, and Chapman's Piloting & Seamanship. The Casey will acquaint you with what's involved with the tasks you have ahead of you to restore her, the Calder will get you going again if your motor packs it in en route, and the Chapman's will sort out virtually all other issues. They're all pretty reasonable reading, also, if you like reading reference material...
And mostly, enjoy your trip home, and your new boat!
Cheers,
Chris
I'm biased, of course, but I think the NE38 is one of the most beautiful boats ever built. And that they're built about as well as any other boat - as well as anyone knew how to when they were built, basically. We own hull #134, Weatherbird, and love her (thus the bias). So I'm sure you'll be happy with Norumbega, and once you've got the work she needs done, she should be a real joy to own!
If you haven't found it yet, check out the website at http://www.lecomteowners.com. It's got a fair bit of information on our boats, and gets more as I have time to put it up. The forums are a good place to ask LeComte-specific questions also - although these forums of Tim's are frequented by many of the same people, in addition to benefiting from the other very knowledgeable folks that hang out here. If you have information you'd like up on the owner's site, let me know and I'll happily put it up. For now I'll put up a link to your site, and probably some of your photos, as well as updating the owner information for Norumbega. Oh - what is your hull #?
As far as what to do before you take off for Lake Ontario (speaking of which - what will your home port be? Are you taking the Eerie Canal to get home? I came the other way as a teenager with my family, we bought a boat in Toronto and sailed her back to Fredericton, NB), from a read of the survey it looks like you've got a few things that would be good ideas right away: stern light, autopilot, fire extinguishers, engine exhaust hose, and engine cooling system seem like the ones that I wouldn't do without, myself. The rest are cosmetic, related to rig, or can be done without, and if you're motoring home the rig can wait. The most serious problem to my eye is the chainplate issue - one of the Medalists on the west coast went out for a sail and lost one on each side (lowers, thankfully, so the rig stayed in) - if you've got hull bulges then you've definitely got rust, which means they're not as strong as they should be. I personally wouldn't sail the boat before addressing that (and the cracked swage, of course).
If you don't already own them, I'd recommend three books as a minimum library before you set out: Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual, Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual, and Chapman's Piloting & Seamanship. The Casey will acquaint you with what's involved with the tasks you have ahead of you to restore her, the Calder will get you going again if your motor packs it in en route, and the Chapman's will sort out virtually all other issues. They're all pretty reasonable reading, also, if you like reading reference material...
And mostly, enjoy your trip home, and your new boat!
Cheers,
Chris
-
jollyboat
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:51 am
- Boat Name: Jollyboat
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Fairfield County, CT
- Contact:
Welcome aboard Brian. Anyone that is interested in the Plastic Classics and shares a common name with me can't be all that bad - the rum is in starboard locker. Cheers! PS as far as the "sons" are concerned and what to do while sailing with them - check the starboard locker again.
Good Sailing
Good Sailing
Last edited by jollyboat on Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brian
Jollyboat, Triton #466
Sepi,Triton #346 (1st, Triton)
No Quarter
Jollyboat, Triton #466
Sepi,Triton #346 (1st, Triton)
No Quarter
-
BS Smith
- Deck Grunge Scrubber
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:03 pm
- Boat Name: #82
- Boat Type: LeComte NE38
- Location: Upstate NY/Outside DC
Thanks for the welcome.
Further to Chris's points:
Norumbega is #82, second in the series. I'm well familiar with and have enjoyed your LeComte site. It--and Weatherbird--were major factors in my deciding on the NE38. (At some point I'll be interested in learning more about your water tank replacement, as it's on my to-do list—100 gallons of undrinkable water; wonderful!) The route north will be Harlem/Hudson/Erie and Oswego canals to Sodus Bay. Your do-now list is identical to mine and in process, with one exception. Happily, after the survey the autopilot was shown to be working (and in any case the trip is expected to be hands-on steered in fairly close quarters).
The chainplate issue is an interesting one that definitely requires future attention. The hull bulges at the forward chainplates appear to be identical on both sides of the boat. These chainplates were "abandoned" and replaced by new ones when the previous owner bought the boat (24 years ago) and fitted a taller mast. Regarding the bulges, according to one of the guys at LeComte, "they all do that"—the chainplate mates to a horizontal piece, and because of too rapid fiberglassing and excessive heat build-up, a bulge developed at the horizontal piece (it was a persuasive explanation, but I'm not doing a great job retelling it). What the surveyor was more concerned about was rust stain at the top of one of the "new" chainplates. I'm not eager to get in and unearth the in-service chainplates—but much less so in seeing all that mast toppling down—so for certain they will receive further scrutiny.
Thanks too for the book tips. For seamanship, I went with the Annapolis Book and have found it useful. While in Jakarta I also got Casey's This Old Boat (and he's one of the reasons I decided to buy my old one) and Calder's Cruising Handbook. For me, Casey's a more enjoyable fellow to read than Calder, but of course we're not here for the prose. More books from both are in my near future, but in honesty and although I'll be dragging along a small set of tools, I can't see undertaking any diesel repairs underway. It would just be too much, too soon, too urgent. If there's a breakdown, this self-described cheap guy will say without hesitation "Mr Mechanic, do with me what you will, but please fix this thing." That is, if I can find him!
Thanks again,
BS
Further to Chris's points:
Norumbega is #82, second in the series. I'm well familiar with and have enjoyed your LeComte site. It--and Weatherbird--were major factors in my deciding on the NE38. (At some point I'll be interested in learning more about your water tank replacement, as it's on my to-do list—100 gallons of undrinkable water; wonderful!) The route north will be Harlem/Hudson/Erie and Oswego canals to Sodus Bay. Your do-now list is identical to mine and in process, with one exception. Happily, after the survey the autopilot was shown to be working (and in any case the trip is expected to be hands-on steered in fairly close quarters).
The chainplate issue is an interesting one that definitely requires future attention. The hull bulges at the forward chainplates appear to be identical on both sides of the boat. These chainplates were "abandoned" and replaced by new ones when the previous owner bought the boat (24 years ago) and fitted a taller mast. Regarding the bulges, according to one of the guys at LeComte, "they all do that"—the chainplate mates to a horizontal piece, and because of too rapid fiberglassing and excessive heat build-up, a bulge developed at the horizontal piece (it was a persuasive explanation, but I'm not doing a great job retelling it). What the surveyor was more concerned about was rust stain at the top of one of the "new" chainplates. I'm not eager to get in and unearth the in-service chainplates—but much less so in seeing all that mast toppling down—so for certain they will receive further scrutiny.
Thanks too for the book tips. For seamanship, I went with the Annapolis Book and have found it useful. While in Jakarta I also got Casey's This Old Boat (and he's one of the reasons I decided to buy my old one) and Calder's Cruising Handbook. For me, Casey's a more enjoyable fellow to read than Calder, but of course we're not here for the prose. More books from both are in my near future, but in honesty and although I'll be dragging along a small set of tools, I can't see undertaking any diesel repairs underway. It would just be too much, too soon, too urgent. If there's a breakdown, this self-described cheap guy will say without hesitation "Mr Mechanic, do with me what you will, but please fix this thing." That is, if I can find him!
Thanks again,
BS
-
Quetzalsailor
- Master of the Arcane
- Posts: 1100
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
- Boat Name: Quetzal
- Boat Type: LeComte North East 38
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Congratulations, Brian,
You'll find several NE 38 owners who frequent this Forum as well as the LeComteOwners site. Several of us are or have been deep into our boats. The Medalists share alot of details, so help from those folks is right on as well. And, of course, there are some really sharp folks who take the time to chat on this site, very helpful even if they're not LeComte owners.
Interesting comments that you and Chris have exchanged on chainplates. Our NE 38, Quetzal, hull 167, is from 1970. I'll guess that we have stainless components everywhere, unlike the earlier boats. No bulges, no staining. Whew!
I'd advise "simply" doing the service on your integral tanks. Get 'em clean. Replace the bolts, if necessary. New gaskets/sealant. New lids, if necessary. Our fuel tank is monel, thanks to a change in USCG rules in the late '60s. Our water tank is integral, like all the others I know of. I got it clean and sealed and the water went from really awful to plenty good enough (I brush teeth, wash self and dishes, but do not make coffee; I think the slightly odd but not off-putting taste is due to the AquaBon). Read some posts, mine included.
Where will you be on Lake Ontario?
Feel free to chat 'offline'; several of us NE 38 owners exchange emails in boring specificity.
Doug
You'll find several NE 38 owners who frequent this Forum as well as the LeComteOwners site. Several of us are or have been deep into our boats. The Medalists share alot of details, so help from those folks is right on as well. And, of course, there are some really sharp folks who take the time to chat on this site, very helpful even if they're not LeComte owners.
Interesting comments that you and Chris have exchanged on chainplates. Our NE 38, Quetzal, hull 167, is from 1970. I'll guess that we have stainless components everywhere, unlike the earlier boats. No bulges, no staining. Whew!
I'd advise "simply" doing the service on your integral tanks. Get 'em clean. Replace the bolts, if necessary. New gaskets/sealant. New lids, if necessary. Our fuel tank is monel, thanks to a change in USCG rules in the late '60s. Our water tank is integral, like all the others I know of. I got it clean and sealed and the water went from really awful to plenty good enough (I brush teeth, wash self and dishes, but do not make coffee; I think the slightly odd but not off-putting taste is due to the AquaBon). Read some posts, mine included.
Where will you be on Lake Ontario?
Feel free to chat 'offline'; several of us NE 38 owners exchange emails in boring specificity.
Doug
-
Quetzalsailor
- Master of the Arcane
- Posts: 1100
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
- Boat Name: Quetzal
- Boat Type: LeComte North East 38
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
Take a look at the photo of my port upper's chainplate (Photobucket, search Quetzalsailor). It's in the head demolition album. What I think I see is the normally-concealed portion of the stainless chainplate that's visible on deck; it's not polished since it's not visible. The stainless bolts go through the 'plate, through the built-up fiberglass lump and probably thread into nuts welded to a backup piece of metal that's 'glassed into the hull. The lower's backup plates are simply glassed to the hull.
If, like my maststep, those bolts are simply tapped into the backup plate, it's a pretty unhappy arrangement since the backup plate is only about 3 mm thick and nuts for 10m bolts are maybe 5mm thick. The good part about that for the maststep is that the mast is firmly planted by shroud loads. The bolts in the chainplate are loaded mostly in 'single sheer' with a portion of the load in bending because the load is spaced away from the backup plate by the thickness of the fiberglass (of course, a portion of the load in the bolt is in tension because it was tightened). It works because there are enough bolts.
Anyway, what you (and I) should fret about is what the backup plates are made of. The lower's backup plates being 'glassed to the hull is why the earlier boats (and Alden Challengers, to name another with the same detail), that have carbon steel plates, sometimes show bulges in the hull and even weeping rust right through the hull due to corrosion in the plate.
If, like my maststep, those bolts are simply tapped into the backup plate, it's a pretty unhappy arrangement since the backup plate is only about 3 mm thick and nuts for 10m bolts are maybe 5mm thick. The good part about that for the maststep is that the mast is firmly planted by shroud loads. The bolts in the chainplate are loaded mostly in 'single sheer' with a portion of the load in bending because the load is spaced away from the backup plate by the thickness of the fiberglass (of course, a portion of the load in the bolt is in tension because it was tightened). It works because there are enough bolts.
Anyway, what you (and I) should fret about is what the backup plates are made of. The lower's backup plates being 'glassed to the hull is why the earlier boats (and Alden Challengers, to name another with the same detail), that have carbon steel plates, sometimes show bulges in the hull and even weeping rust right through the hull due to corrosion in the plate.
-
BS Smith
- Deck Grunge Scrubber
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:03 pm
- Boat Name: #82
- Boat Type: LeComte NE38
- Location: Upstate NY/Outside DC
Safe arrival
Just to let you know...
We arrived safely in Sodus Bay Saturday noon. The week long trip went pretty much as scheduled, except for an additional day on the upper Hudson against a stronger than anticipated current. The Perkins worked fine, requiring only alternator adjustment to solve some belt squeal and wear. Used about 3/4 g/h at 1800, which usually gave 5-5.5 kts. One 12.5 hr day we ran at 2000, still with no overheating (the motor tends to run hot at higher revs). Used about 1/2 qt oil for the trip.
Our end of first day ride through Hanna effects was wild, but because of the storm warnings, after setting out we saw zero boat traffic in NY harbor, on the Harlem and lower Hudson. Hell Gate at slack water was a non-event. We had a quite rocky time that night in a barely sheltered restaurant marina (but much better than if we hadn't found it). Our mooring lines set in-storm should have been done better--during the night the bow took some hard hits against the wooden dock. The dock got a bit chewed up, but there was no apparent ill effect on the boat. Two docking lines also were able to rub against the toe rail, and wore two neat gashes in it. The mast arrangement could have been more stable, but other than one of the spreader mounts cutting through the (already in need of replacement) dodger, no damage was done.
I wasn't able to start the delivery until after our sons were back at school, so the older generation pitched in. One brother was with me for the first and last leg of the trip, another took two days in the middle and his wife followed (!) for two more. On the way we were hosted for dinner by a sister who lives a half hour from the canal.
All in all a good time. I won't be eager to do it again for quite a while though. Motoring a sailboat for days on end really isn't much fun in itself, but it did get the job done.
And now the real work begins!
Here's a shot from crossing Oneida Lake:
We arrived safely in Sodus Bay Saturday noon. The week long trip went pretty much as scheduled, except for an additional day on the upper Hudson against a stronger than anticipated current. The Perkins worked fine, requiring only alternator adjustment to solve some belt squeal and wear. Used about 3/4 g/h at 1800, which usually gave 5-5.5 kts. One 12.5 hr day we ran at 2000, still with no overheating (the motor tends to run hot at higher revs). Used about 1/2 qt oil for the trip.
Our end of first day ride through Hanna effects was wild, but because of the storm warnings, after setting out we saw zero boat traffic in NY harbor, on the Harlem and lower Hudson. Hell Gate at slack water was a non-event. We had a quite rocky time that night in a barely sheltered restaurant marina (but much better than if we hadn't found it). Our mooring lines set in-storm should have been done better--during the night the bow took some hard hits against the wooden dock. The dock got a bit chewed up, but there was no apparent ill effect on the boat. Two docking lines also were able to rub against the toe rail, and wore two neat gashes in it. The mast arrangement could have been more stable, but other than one of the spreader mounts cutting through the (already in need of replacement) dodger, no damage was done.
I wasn't able to start the delivery until after our sons were back at school, so the older generation pitched in. One brother was with me for the first and last leg of the trip, another took two days in the middle and his wife followed (!) for two more. On the way we were hosted for dinner by a sister who lives a half hour from the canal.
All in all a good time. I won't be eager to do it again for quite a while though. Motoring a sailboat for days on end really isn't much fun in itself, but it did get the job done.
And now the real work begins!
Here's a shot from crossing Oneida Lake:
