In the water mast removal with Gin Pole

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jollyboat
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In the water mast removal with Gin Pole

Post by jollyboat »

I took down my mast on 466 yesterday with a Gin Pole. It was a bit stressfull and I ended up breaking my Harken roller furling foil but I got the mast down. I was on the horn today with Harken and my issue with furling unit is no problem to repair - just more time. Anyway - a much needed new mast support beam was the motivating factor here. I have the mast pretty well stripped down at this point and just waiting for a good time to haul it off the boat.
Building the Gin pole. I came across an old Soling mast and cut the mast down to 24 feet. I used a chop saw as alum. cut likes butter on these. The mast had its original fittings so I simply attached a low stretch line to the hounds and used Harken Bullet blocks with S - hooks bent onto the lower blocks to use as adjustable "turnbuckles" to tention the new Gin pole standing rigging. I install two shrouds and both forward and rear stays, so I had four points holding the pole up. I used a sail tie as the lifting strap and a 4:1 block and tackle to lift the mast out of it's step. Once up, I was able to lower the mast onto the deck and remove the shrounds and stays. I made several mistakes that I will need to correct on the next go around. First the line I used on the Gin pole for stays was too light and had too much stretch. Second, the 4:1 block and tackle was not enough and this should be at least an 8:1 tackle system, the mast is very heavy. Third, because of the above mentioned changes that I need to make - when the mast lifted up out of its step, I drew the butt of mast foward where I should have led it under the Gin pole shroud and aft. My mistake left the mast out side of the pole shroud which forced me to loosen that shroud and splash the Gin pole over board. No big deal - but it looked messy and caused too much of a scene for my liking. This job in the water is a bit risky as the boat moves around while shifting my weight around the deck. My reasons for doing so stem from not having much of choice more than anything else.
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Post by Zach »

Hey Brian,

I'm looking into doing the same thing.

Got a question: How big is the mast step on your boat? I've been looking at mine wondering how it'd pivot around... Don't know if the big aluminum plate is bolted to the deck or what all is going on with it quite yet.

Thanks!

Zach
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Peter
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Post by Peter »

If I may butt in here, I use the "A" frame method, instead of one pole, because I believe it's safer and easier.
It's well documentd on the Alberg 30 Site, so 'nuff said.
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Post by Rachel »

Coincidentally, it's on another A-30 that Yves Gelinas uses a gin-pole stepping method with great success (i.e. not an A-frame). He explains it on his site with photos and drawings, here:

http://www.capehorn.com/sections/M%E2ta ... system.htm

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Image

(Edited to add illustrations from linked site.)
Last edited by Rachel on Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Peter »

Rachel,
Thanks for the interesting link. Hey, those beaching legs look familiar :-)
I used the Gin Pole method with great ease on my San Juan 24. The main ingredient was a hinged mast step. The boat trailer winch was used for hoisting. One thing I did'nt like about this method was the way the horizontal mast hung way out over the transom. With the boat afloat in a crowded marina this can be a bit awkward.
Image

On a regular style "plug-in" deck-stepped mast this method can get a little hairy when working alone, so my personal preference is for the 'A' frame method.

Either way requires a bit of setup beforehand, with the gin pole method being a bit quicker.

I always fret beforehand, but the whole process is amazingly simple!
Peter
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Post by Rachel »

Peter,

Good point on the A-frame making it so the mast doesn't hang out so far aft. I hadn't thought of it from that perspective -- the way it's more like a giant tabernacle. Actually, looking at Yves' first photo (which I added above), I'm trying to decide if I would ever have the nerve to actually do that. I would hope so, but .... yikes. Of course he throws in the beaching legs like it's nothing. Heh.
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Post by MikeD »

Is it just me, or does Rachel's first picture look REALLY precarious??? Yikes is right!
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Stepping the Mast

Post by ensign001 »

Here is a link that has photos and description of stepping a mast on an Ensign:

http://www.sailsaratoga.org/fleets/ensi ... tml?page=1
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Post by Rachel »

MikeD wrote:Is it just me, or does Rachel's first picture look REALLY precarious??? Yikes is right!
Actually, I don't think it's precarious at all. I was just saying that I would have to get up my nerve.

I think Yves has used the system dozens of times. Maybe it looks less precarious to me because I've seen his film, wherein he does step the mast on the beach (so you can watch him do it). It looks more "slow and steady" when you see it happening.

Good beaching legs are probably less nerve-wracking than watching yard crew move your boat around :D

R.
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Post by Zach »

Thanks guys! Good ideas and learning going on.

Yves, I believe has made an A-frame. His two metal shrouds hold the spinnaker pole in column, any load and its not going anywhere. Really like that the parts can be easily carried on board. Would be some trick if the shrouds were the same length as the lowers, pre-made spares... (I wouldn't be the first to hop up the mast and disconnect the lowers to use to drop the mast... eek.)

At the moment I'm leaning towards the A-frame idea. Found a pretty cool video on youtube... Little bit smaller boat, but its a motion picture... Grin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLxujYRsMQ

I like how he uses the shrouds and fore stay to hold everything in column... Wonder if I could build a curvaceous a-frame that would rest on top of the toe rails... grin. If only for the speed of having the system set up and ready at a moments notice... primarily to flip the proverbial finger at those sadistic bridge operators. (And hopes of floating through Europe's canals!)

Evidently the Telstar 28 has a patented one rope system for mast lowering, but I haven't found any pictures or instructions on how to use it. May have to do a patent search...
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Post by Rachel »

Zach wrote:Wonder if I could build a curvaceous a-frame that would rest on top of the toe rails... grin. If only for the speed of having the system set up and ready at a moments notice... primarily to flip the proverbial finger at those sadistic bridge operators. (And hopes of floating through Europe's canals!)
The ones I've seen might be a bit much for carrying on a Triton, but if you're interested, quite a few Dutch boats carry their own A-frame type mast stepping arrangements on board. They tend to need minimum air draft fairly often. They aren't too worried about weight and bulk, for the most part; but maybe you could make a lightweight version.
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Post by Zach »

Idea! Use the same pin as the shrouds are attached to, and make a big a-frame. Use it as the bow rail! All the way outside the fore stay. Kept coming back to the Alberg 30 sites super tall a-frame and how nice thats got to be for stiffness, but where to put it all?

I was on the verge of falling asleep last night when that one happened. How do you store an A-frame on deck, not have it get in the way of the stanchions... not be a trip hazard, or toe stubber around the toe rail. How do you keep it from chafing dock lines, while still being big enough to stiffen up the rig... interface with the bow rail without adding a lot of yuck to the lines. Ta-da! Multi-use... and the pivot point is the same as everything else so nothing (should) bind up.

Whatcha think? Would have to figure out a way to support it all, maybe a few stantions with U shaped tops to capture it and little wire shrouds with mini-turnbuckles to keep things put...

Means the hinge point of the mast can be 30 inches off the side decks +/- 2 in... Now I gotta figure out how tall the cabin top is.

Just means I've gotta find a different way to do the bow light, or run the wire through one side of the A-frame even with the mast. Don't know if up on the bow or even with the chain plates is a better location as far as leak potential goes... Would be pretty funny to mount the bow light on a gimble and be able to crank the bow rail up to the fore stay. It'd make a triton look like a tanker on the horizon! (Grin)

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Removing heavy masts

Post by JohnS »

I've got a wooden mast roughly 34' high. I'm guessing it weighs substantially more than a comparable aluminum mast. The step is a 2" high metal sleeve that the base of the mast slides into. No hinges.

I'm thinking I'll need a 4 legged "tower". I'm considering building two A frames tall enough to meet just above the spreaders, braced fore and aft, and side to side , and with a 4x4 connecting them athwartships across the top. Sorta like this:
Image

Attach a block to the cross beam, a turning block on a forward leg, and use an old genoa sheet from the mast just below the spreaders, through the blocks to the a Primary winch.

The legs of the A-frames would need to be about 24' long to angle them enough to make it stable, yet reach near the balance point of the mast. I'm thinking, for each leg, buy three 16' 2x4s, cut one in half, and sister each 8' length with a 16' length, then take the unsistered lengths of each 16' board and join them. Like so:
Image


So, is this nuts? Unsafe? Overkill?
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