Handling industrial quantities of epoxy

[bcooke]

My first epoxy projects on my boat were rather small and gave me a good chance to learn and experiment without ruining anything too big or costing too much money. Reading the instructions on the back of the cans (and in the case of WEST, their booklet) have worked pretty well so far.

Today, while I was dispensing 50 pumps of West epoxy and resin (wished I had used 60), then adding in nearly a whole small container of filler, my mind started wandering (nearly forgot to count) and ... getting back to my subject... I started wondering if anyone had some ideas or tips that worked for them when handling larger quantities of epoxy. The pumps, pint sized plastic bucket ,and scrap stir stick has worked so far but I am nearing the end of this method's limits.

When working with small quantities and I mix up a bit too little, I can usually whip up an extra batch and apply it without causing a problem. With the larger projects, running too short causes a problem because the first batch kicks off before I can get the second batch mixed up and applied.

So... (The longer I hang around this board the more long winded my postings become) ...What system works for you all when recoring decks or performing other epoxy intensive projects?

-Britton

[dasein668]

The longer I hang around this board the more long winded my postings become

Tim has that effect on people! hehe

Other than that, I don't have much to add here... I haven't done much mixing of very large batches, except a couple of times helping Tim out with things so I'll leave that to him to describe.

[bcooke]

You do have a deck re-core coming up though right? That should be exciting! My fifty pumps was for laying down the top skin of the cockpit sole after recoring it. It was fun and instructive but I think I saw enough to decide that a total re-core is a lot of work. It was satisfying to scrape out the old soaking wet balsa and brown mush and replace it with the bright, clean, smooth foam core. I almost hated to cover it back up with the old skin panel. Now, of course, I realize that I am only half way done with a lot of grinding, filling, smoothing and painting still ahead of me. Have fun!

-B.

[dasein668]

Yeah, a recore is in my future. Therre is definitely moisture in the decks?when we bought the boat you could pull on the stanchions and get water to weep up out of the deck!

That said, I am amazed by the fact that three years later there is still not a hint of sponginess, or even softness to the decks. They still are rock hard. I don't want to cut up my decks before I have to, but I don't really want to paint without dealing with the decks either....

[Tim]

There were few times during my Triton restoration that I truly wished for a helper, but I sure could have used help during the larger epoxy jobs, such as the recore. Having a spare person ready to mix another batch would make all the difference in these situations.

Lacking that, one ends up struggling with too-small batches (OK sometimes, potentially disasterous others), or, alternatively, with excess wastage. Both are annoying. I still kick myself each time I mix up too much and throw away a container filled with hardened much.

The mini-pumps with West System are good for metering out the normal-sized small batches that one uses for small jobs. But you can grow a Popeye forearm pumping out large batches this way. Gougeon makes some larger distribution systems for more production-oriented shops, but they don't come cheaply. I've been looking at one for over a year now, and even wholesale I haven't quite been able to justify it. Probably this fall, though. Even though I use other resins for more bulk projects, I always keep West System around because it is just so darn dependable, and is good for small batches and quick jobs. In fact, I recently bought the West Group "C" containers of resin and hardener (4.93 gal resin and .94 gal hardener), because I've had it with the small containers even for this occasional use.

You can measure the materials out into plastic containers first, but must be very careful to ensure that the ratio is right--whichever brand of epoxy you choose. I buy 1-qt. marked-and-measured plastic pots by the case for this purpose. The larger jugs of resin also can be fitted with simple pour spouts like those seen on my System Three jugs in this photo. (By the way, this cart no longer looks as neat and clean as this photo from shortly after I built it...now it looks well-used and weary, and is covered in resin accented with spilled fillers!)


Next, bite the bullet and buy large quantities of the materials you need. It is so worth it (and I did it the wrong way during Glissando's restoration) to buy the 5-gallon epoxy kits and fillers in bulk. You can use any brand of filler with any brand of epoxy. Last spring, I bought a massive bag of Cabosil for a ridiculously low price. I have enough Cabosil to build Scheherezade, I think. I haven't found as good a source for microballoons (i.e. 407), but still buy this in larger containers.

Contact me off the forum and we might discuss your materials needs.

The reality is that one person, alone, can only work with so much epoxy at a time, and doing so will inevevitably lead to inadequate amounts or wasted product. With time, one begins to become a better judge of how much epoxy is required for a given job, and this helps. But otherwise, it's best to plan your jobs around the size batch you can mix and apply, or else find a helper for those occasions where truly necessary. Nathan already knows he's getting roped into helping me when I glass the Daysailor deck later this fall. (Lucky devil!)

Who said anything about long-winded? hehe

[dasein668]

Nathan already knows he's getting roped into helping me when I glass the Daysailor deck later this fall. (Lucky devil!)

Rent is cheap, but the payback's a... well.. you all know what it is! hehe

[Tim]

Rent is cheap, but the payback's a... well.. you all know what it is! hehe

Ah, but the fathomless knowledge and experience gained is priceless!

I'm sure hearts all over are weeping for your unfortunate storage circumstances and those myriad attached strings! hehe

[dasein668]

Yes, I'm sure! But, come now?how would you stay entertained if I wasn't there doing dumas [sic] things? That's GOT to be worth the price of admission! hehe

[Tim]

Entertainment...no doubt about it!

[The Good Goose]

When I did my core I used Mas epoxy and I liked it. It was easier to use then west and not as thick. I used small plastic cups to measure it and I mixed it in 1 QT paper food containers. I got a case of these and they were really cheap a lot less then paper paint containers but virtually identical. I would mix up batches of about a pint each as I found with larger batches they would kick too quick. with alot of containers I could mix several. definately go for the five gallon jugs if you are doing a recore. If there is any way you can get someone to help you it is really nice to have one person mixing and another working as the mixing is almost as time consuming as the work. Big batches of epoxy like to kick really fast better to make up 2 or 3 container batches then 1 big batch. there is something very irratating about seeing a ten dollar batch of epoxy start to smoke grrr. I also found that it was better to use a clean container each batch as residue from prior batches accelerated the catylyst and the batches would kick quicker.

Good luck its only really bad and messy for a couple of days.

Brock Richardson

[bcooke]

Contact me off the forum and we might discuss your materials needs

This and a few other comments recently makes me wonder if someone here is getting into the Online Marine Supplies business. The insidious plot to take over the world deepens...

I REALLY should have bought epoxy in larger quantities. I am thinking of this this morning as I prepare to go out and purchase my fourth gallon of resin in a two months. Hopefully, my epoxy projects are winding down; winter is coming after all. When I start my next round of projects in the spring I am going to go industrial sized. I may contact that new online marine supply store I keep hearing about...

I have heard a lot of people recommending other epoxies over West for the larger projects and I plan to branch out in the future. I wanted to work with the West system simply because that is what all the others compare themselves with. I needed to understand West before I could understand what the others are saying. One of the good qualities of my boat is that the deck is pretty sound and if I keep it sealed up I shouldn't have to contemplate a total re-core project. The poop deck is about as far as I need to go and that can wait a couple of years if need be. As Nathan says about his decks, they can get pretty bad and still function quite well.

I don't want to cut up my decks before I have to, but I don't really want to paint without dealing with the decks either....

That is the basis for my little re-core project too. I needed to replace what looks like a 38 year old original propeller shaft seal but I had no access to it. So that meant a hatch and a new hatch in an old soggy sole didn't make sense. So now I have a new cockpit sole with a new hatch and soon a new shaft seal.

there is something very irratating about seeing a ten dollar batch of epoxy start to smoke grrr

So I have learned as well. I find it even more disturbing to be half way through a laminating job, peices laid out everywhere waiting for positioning and clamping and have the mix start to gel up.

So everyone seems to be in agreement that what I really need is a tool girl like on the show "Home Improvement" to mix my epoxy for me!

Thanks for the input.

-Britton

P.S. Since it appears that I will not be sailing my boat to the Bahamas for the winter, I might be available to persons in the Maine area for a couple of days of epoxy mixing.

[Tim]

This and a few other comments recently makes me wonder if someone here is getting into the Online Marine Supplies business. The insidious plot to take over the world deepens...

Far from it, actually, but I would be pleased to help out some hard-working project hounds from time to time, since easing the cost of boatbuilding supplies is a boon to any project--particularly for larger orders.

There's nothing in it for me other than the irritation dealing with suppliers whose prices changed unnoticed and annoy the you-know-what out of me when I go to order. See the thread on boat stands about this.

[dasein668]

P.S. Since it appears that I will not be sailing my boat to the Bahamas for the winter, I might be available to persons in the Maine area for a couple of days of epoxy mixing.

Hmmm. How about fairing and longboarding a couple of hulls? hehe

[Tim]

bcooke wrote:
P.S. Since it appears that I will not be sailing my boat to the Bahamas for the winter, I might be available to persons in the Maine area for a couple of days of epoxy mixing.


Hmmm. How about fairing and longboarding a couple of hulls? hehe

The pay's lousy, but you get all the free coffee you can drink.

[bcooke]

I would love to but I am really not sure if I am qualified. Maybe I should watch first.

The pay's lousy, but you get all the free coffee you can drink.

I know of another boat that will need some beauty work in a year or so. Okay, maybe two or three years. Maybe we can work out a deal? :-)

-B.

[Tim]

I know of another boat that will need some beauty work in a year or so. Okay, maybe two or three years. Maybe we can work out a deal? :-)

I'm all for the barter system.