Debond Marine Formula to loosen 5200

[kristian]

Was removing the jib tracks from Shields 88 today, and found to my chagrin that some malevolent bastard had 5200'd them onto the deck.

Seemed like a good opportunity to try out the can of Debond I picked up a while back. I used it once on a hydraulic panel, but there was barely any 5200 there. Our jib tracks were positively floating on the stuff.

I sprayed the perimeter of the tracks, and managed to get an old chisel wedged under the end of one. Decided to leave it be for a few minutes, and came back to find that the chisel, which I had previously stopped fussing with for fear of bending the track, had loosened up quite a bit. I was able to work a couple screwdrivers under the track, alternating my way up the track until it was out. Tried doing another track without, and it was possible, but was taking more time than I had, so sprayed and removed.

Really great stuff, it loosened up the 5200 quickly, and made it removable while leaving the deck behind. Conditions were humid and 50 deg. Glad I kept this stuff with me and will definitely replenish when it runs out.

[Tim]

That stuff does work well. It can be be tough sometimes to apply it where it's needed, but once you get it on the 5200 it works remarkably well, and makes removal less damaging and more feasible.

[kristian]

I also had an old tube of 5200 lying around, so I glued up a couple test samples for more testing. More on that later.

You can get the stuff at Hamilton, among other places.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse. ... 5.659.html

[Rachel]

I also had an old tube of 5200 lying around, so I glued up a couple test samples for more testing. More on that later.

Oh goodie; I love follow-up.

R.

[Hirilondë]

It does work, but it isn't always possible to get it to the 5200. If you can get a razor knife into the edge of the goo to help the Debond penetrate it helps a lot.

[kristian]

Discovered today it also softens interlux brightside which has been applied in a single coat over unsanded gelcoat (long story on how that got there)

I had a little overspray yesterday and today it softened and wrinkled the paint.

This is a good reminder to always test a product on a hidden location before using on finished material! I'm taking the paint off soon anyway, so this only helps.

[Hirilondë]

5200 is a polyurethane, I believe Brightside is as well.............

[PGplastic]

I, too, can confirm that DeBond works well. As mentioned, apply it where the 5200 meets the surface. Cut into the 5200 if possible.

Used this method to remove a poorly bedded motor mount. 5200 was 0.5" thick at it's thickest. Simply waited a few minutes after application and removed with a putty knife. Temps were in the 60's as I recall.

Seems like I remember alcohol neutralizes it.

[cat25me]

greetings from the gulf of maine;
on the subject of 5200:
i have a catalina 25 with a crack on the bottom of my keel. i was planning to inject 5200 into the crack and then seal it over with marine filler. i guess it would take perhaps 3-4 tubes for both sides. any thoughts from 5200 fans?
thanks; pete f.

[Hirilondë]

greetings from the gulf of maine;
on the subject of 5200:
i have a catalina 25 with a crack on the bottom of my keel. i was planning to inject 5200 into the crack and then seal it over with marine filler. i guess it would take perhaps 3-4 tubes for both sides. any thoughts from 5200 fans?
thanks; pete f.

5200 is an adhesive, not a void filler. If your crack is non-structural you can fill it with thickened epoxy, seal it, and paint. If it is a structural issue or even one that may flex under stress, then you need to address it a lot better than just injecting 5200 or any other substance as a filler. Without pictures, neither I nor likely anyone else can even begin to guess what you need to do. But what ever the problem is it likely requires grinding, maybe filling, and most likely some glass work.

I suggest you take a few photos and start a new thread. You will find several to many people here willing to comment and offer encouragement on your project.

Oh, and welcome to The Plastic Classic Forum.

[Tim]

Clearly some more information is needed, but as Dave said, 5200 is not intended for that sort of usage. And 3-4 tubes is a serious amount, so that must be some crack.

Please feel free to post more detailed information and contextual photos of the issue you're contending with so that I and others can perhaps be of some help.

[cat25me]

Clearly some more information is needed, but as Dave said, 5200 is not intended for that sort of usage. And 3-4 tubes is a serious amount, so that must be some crack.

Please feel free to post more detailed information and contextual photos of the issue you're contending with so that I and others can perhaps be of some help.

many thanks tim ;
here is a pic of the crack. i am a first time keel boat owner; bought the boat at a good price [famous last words] with the idea this crack is not a show stopper. i will get more details in a new topic. [why is the pic so small?]

[bcooke]

[why is the pic so small?]

The image is only 100 bits by 100 bits. (the name of the image has 'thumbnail' in the title which is a clue!) That is pretty small. I use a max of 800 on this site as a general rule. Any bigger and you have to move the screen around to see it all.

From the small image it looks like you need to buy a grinder, some heavy fiberglass and a small bottle of epoxy...

Fiberglass repairs are easy though, once you have done it a time or two.

-Britton

[cat25me]

2nd pic set of my keel of my catalina 25
need keel doctors input on a fix.
thanks

[Tim]

Is that a cast iron keel? Do I see rust peeking out through that crack, or is it just rust-colored discoloration from something else? What is that concrete-looking material just below the blue patch of bottom paint? Is that chewed-up lead?

Regardless of anything else, your first step here, and in any such repair, is to remove and grind away any and all loose material in and around that void, until you reach sound, solid material. Remove all the nearby paint as well. Given the paint condition on that keel, you might as well remove all of it from the whole thing. You're going to need to assess the areas adjacent to the crack to fully determine the extent of any related damage.

I can't tell enough detail about the keel's actual construction to say much more. Is the ballast, whether lead or iron, fully encapsulated in fiberglass, or external? Does any of this mess look like previous patchwork, or original construction? Is this evidence only on one side of the keel, or does it extend to the bottom and/or other side at all?

It's certainly not pretty, but anything is repairable. At a bare minimum, you're looking at a fair bit of grinding, filling (epoxy, please), and fiberglass patching. It's a pretty good place to learn since cosmetics aren't so important there, but you still want to be sure to do the job right if you proceed.

More to come pending further information from you.

[Maine Sail]

Catalina's generally used lead keels and they are always external not encapsulated, unless a PO did it. That looks to me like a poor patch job by a PO but I also see rust which does not make much sense?

Perhaps Catalina used iron on the 25's? Either way what Tim said still stands remove all of the loose stuff and then asses the situation..

[cat25me]

good folks;
i have moved this keel discussion to >>>
The Plastic Classic Forum Forum Index -> Questions and Answers
"calling all keel doctors'"
thanks for the inputs;
kaptain pete
psk

[cat25me]

Greetings from South Portland ME;
Many thanks for all the replies from the membership.
It is so great to have a resource like this for a first time Catalina owner like me.

Just back from the boat yard 23:27 EDT. I have knocked into the keel gaps to find what appears to be marine cement inside a steel / cast iron shell. Pics to be posted Tuesday [worth a million words]. I feel like a dentist who went in for a cavity and drilled enough way for a dental bridge. In the first posted pic, the line in the keel [frown] was knocked off with a tire iron to expose what appears to be cement? I lost about 15 pounds [worth 200 pounds of righting lever??].

The question is: Was the 1978 Catalina 25 fixed keel cement filled steel shell?? I thought the keel was solid cast iron? Did I run into an owner fix / patch job? [?]

My forward plan to get the boat into the water before Halloween is to knock away loose material and coat area with Tiger Hair bondo product. I do not need a 12 meter fin keel to a thousandths of an inch but rather a patch to stand off salt water penetration.

Please advise any Keel Doctors;
thanks;
pete f.