Fein Multi-Master

[Tim]

I know these have been discussed before, and I found a few random snippets of information through "search", but I am looking for specific opinions and advice on this tool.

Specifically:

1. I know what it costs. I can handle it...IF it is truly worth buying. Is it? I don't care about all the 1001 things it can do; I've made it 40 years without one. Will it truly be a helpful addition to my arsenal, specifically given the particular uses I detail below?

2. How does the profile sanding kit work--is it effective and useful?

3. Will it cut fiberglass without needing to buy replacement blades in bulk? (not that you even can...)

I've read all sorts of online reviews of these things, and in the end they're entirely unhelpful. Some people complain bitterly about one thing or another, while other reviewers seem completely amazed that this--or any tool--actually has the ability to cut something as inane as Wonder Bread.

I need real advice. I actually have this tool in my shopping cart at one online store, but I remain hesitant. The main thing I want is the profile sander. I am just about done with sanding tight corners by hand. I found little good to be said about the other profile sanders on the market, so it led me back to the Fein Multi-Master.

Will I be happy with this specific aspect of the tool? Will it, for example, get into the typical 3-sided corners of a cockpit and sand effectively? I'm looking for it to be faster, easier, and more efficient than the misery of hand-sanding here. I understand the limitations of any tiny tool, and don't expect it to do the job of an 8" mud hog. If it's effective enough to postpone the onset of crippling arthritis until I'm older than 50, then it'll be worth it.

I also want it to cut fiberglass in tight places. I don't ever want to use my Roto-Zip again in my lifetime, and my Dremel tool is a whiny, useless vibratory appliance. How about this specific function? Are the blades going to break and wear out continuously, at $30 apiece, like I have read?

Make me want to either click the "buy now" on my shopping cart today, or delete the contents at once. Thanks!

[JetStream]

The fiberglass cutting blades wear out much quicker than I'd like. It's hard to justify a $30 blade for one cut. I bought the profile sander attachment and only used it briefly. I don't have enough experience with the attachment to say aye or nay, but I can tell you that it seems like an afterthought with a little bit of Mickey Mouse workout. I really do like the regular sanding attachment for corners though. For real major profile sanding, I can't see a better solution than one I offered quite a while ago http://www.triton381.com/forum/viewtopi ... ile+sander

[Ceasar Choppy]

Will I be happy with this specific aspect of the tool? Will it, for example, get into the typical 3-sided corners of a cockpit and sand effectively? I'm looking for it to be faster, easier, and more efficient than the misery of hand-sanding here. I understand the limitations of any tiny tool, and don't expect it to do the job of an 8" mud hog. If it's effective enough to postpone the onset of crippling arthritis until I'm older than 50, then it'll be worth it.

I rather think it is more powerful than 90% of the crap that is sold for home improvement. That said, it is really just a powerful vibrator. Getting it to do what you want depends on the attachments. I bought mine 5 years ago and still only have the basic attachments. The basic sanding pad is OK. It works GREAT, but unless you have an attachment for that will do corners, you may not be satisfied. I do see they offer A LOT more attachments now than they did 5 years ago.

I also want it to cut fiberglass in tight places. I don't ever want to use my Roto-Zip again in my lifetime, and my Dremel tool is a whiny, useless vibratory appliance. How about this specific function? Are the blades going to break and wear out continuously, at $30 apiece, like I have read?

This is actually what I got mine for. Cuts through the top skin on a deck like butter and won't cut through me. I've only gone through 2 blades in 5 years (although admittedly, I have not done some of the major recore projects I've seen here) and have abandoned the Dremel unless it is in a REALLY tight spot. T

I've used the MultiMaster to cut through 3/8" Electrical grade (really dense) FRP with ease where the teeth on my Skil saw were worn smooth with alot of smoke and no cut. Although recently I was using the MM to cut through 1" of old fiberglass/plywood and I pushed it so hard, I wore the teeth of a small section of the blade.

I've also used the scraper attachment on nasty caulk. Here it can almost be too powerful in that the scraper blade might be a saw in itself! You have to be careful.

I really like the long powercord which eliminates an extension cord.

Overall, it makes my life easier, which is what I think a good tool is all about.

[Figment]

What the heck is a "profile sander"? Must be some attachment that I don't have for mine. I just have the stock triangular sanding thingy. It's fantastic at doing tight little nooks, but not so hot on a radiused surface. No substitute for the human finger for that last 2%.

Cutting fiberglass does eat blades. I'm only on my second blade, but man I'm nursing every last drop out of it. I'm down to using it as an electrically powered utility knife, score-and-snap.

I'm having trouble imagining how it would be a replacement for your roto-zip. They don't seem like interchangeable functions.
Really, it's not a replacement for any other tool. It's just an augmentation of the larger kit. It is unparalleled at small brief detail work, and thoroughly inadequate at everything else. Use it to clean up that last little bit of a cut made by another tool, but don't use it to make the primary cut.

[Tim]

This is the sort of place I need a tool for....



...so that I can more easily make it look like this. Otherwise, it takes more sanding and effort than my subconsciously supressed memory cares to allow me to remember.

[Figment]

hmmmm, I'm not aware of a Time Machine attachment for the multimaster.

(so you can go back and smack the designer across the head to prevent the creation of such a mess in the first place)

[Tim]

What the heck is a "profile sander"? Must be some attachment that I don't have for mine. I just have the stock triangular sanding thingy. It's fantastic at doing tight little nooks, but not so hot on a radiused surface. No substitute for the human finger for that last 2%.

Profile Sander Kit

I'm having trouble imagining how it would be a replacement for your roto-zip. They don't seem like interchangeable functions.

Lacking anything better, I have used the Roto-Zip to cut tight areas of fiberglass decks where a real saw won't reach--usually the last corners of an otherwise vaguely rectangular circular saw cut area. I sort of figured these miracle saw blades on the Multi-Master would take over this chore. The Roto-Zip works, but the bits break every 1.7 seconds (scientifically timed...)

If the Fein won't finish off saw cuts like this, then the discussion can pretty much end here, I guess, since clearly it isn't the tool for me.

[Tim]

hmmmm, I'm not aware of a Time Machine attachment for the multimaster.

(so you can go back and smack the designer across the head to prevent the creation of such a mess in the first place)

Agreed. Normally, I would be in favor of simply removing and filling in these useless deck hatches that Pearson seemed to like for their early boats, but that wasn't really a viable option in this particular case, unfortunately.

[Figment]

Finishing off saw cuts like that is just what the MM is good at. That, and flush-cutting in locations too tight to use a pull-saw.

[Quetzalsailor]

Tim,

I bought a cheepie Ryobi look-alike at the Despot for $25. It was unutterable crap and I brought it back. It would not retain the sandpaper and had no power.

Then I bit the bullet. The Fein is absolutely robust, a real tool. I've used it for detail sanding in inside sharp corners on Teak, epoxy, multiple layers of old paint, old and new varnish, and cutting putty out of windows. I've got both the basic triangular pads and the finger pads for greater reach into tight places. You can do alot of smallish areas with a $40 palm sander; I have two, but I find myself reaching for the Fein.

Some positives: works well, hook and loop actually holds the paper, almost small enough, powerful (you can't overheat it)

Some negatives: you can overheat and melt the hook and loop pad (I always run such things at highest speed so this may be my problem); similarly you readily fill the paper with melted finish - and the paper is expensive; you can't adjust the amplitude of the oscillation so it's possible to 'buzz' it against the adjoining surface; it's heavy and type A personalities will soon tire to the detriment of the work; it's bulky to get into places; the extended finger pads don't retain their paper as well since the amplitude is greater the greater the distance from the shaft; the metal backup plate on the pad can savage adjacent surfaces - they make a pad without the metal backup plate, but I haven't got one; the saws and knives are a bit soft for longevity but the knives are sharpenable; you cannot buy the pads, paper, or other parts locally - internet sales work fine; changing out pads and the other heads is slow and clumsy - itty-bitty little fingers are advantageous

If, by profile sander, you mean the flat triangular pad or the extended finger pad then the tool is unsurpassed. If there is some dandy attachment similar to a profiled moulding plane, then I want one! As I said above, you can buzz the thing against adjacent surfaces so sanding the inside of a small cove moulding, or along small changes in shape is problematical.

I have only used the saw for cutting dowels flush. I doubt it's a serious tool for cutting fiberglass.

Shop around; I got mine on Amazon on some sort of a deal; paid about 20% less than any other offer, including other Amazon offerings. Compare the bags of tricks that each model comes with; you can't get the tricks cheaper any other way and you won't try 'em if you don't have 'em. I don't usually care about extra tricks, either, but the putty cutter was really nice!

[JetStream]

Even with the negatives, I don't think you'd be sorry to have bought the tool. You'd find some uses that haven't been mentioned.

[Noah]

I made a bunch of one-off sanding attachments for mine so that I could do specific areas on my Hinckley. The toe rails in particular were difficult, so I made a alum and wooden pad with velcro to hold the sandpaper. Worked like a charm and saved a ton of time.

As others have mentioned, sandpaper and blades are expensive. I haven't used the blades much, but I have heard they wear out quickly. It will cut very well though.

I got mine from Coastal Tool which was much cheaper at the time.

[MikeD]

This is the sort of place I need a tool for.... Otherwise, it takes more sanding and effort than my subconsciously supressed memory cares to allow me to remember.

Jeeze Tim, maybe it would have been easier to just hack that ice box out of there?

;)

[Tim]

This is the sort of place I need a tool for.... Otherwise, it takes more sanding and effort than my subconsciously supressed memory cares to allow me to remember.

Jeeze Tim, maybe it would have been easier to just hack that ice box out of there?

;)

Oh believe me, that thought crossed my mind more than once!

Too late now.

[MikeD]

Too late now.

Doh! Well, it's gonna be the best looking stock Pearson cockpit icebox access hatch out there! (That was a mouth full!)

[Rachel]

I've used the MultiMaster for cutting off deck skin on inside of the boat, under the side-decks. I loved that it was precise, relatively un-dusty, not-too-heavy, and that it didn't take my hand off the few times I accidentally ran it up on a finger (apparently it doesn't cut on something that is not hard, so when it hits your skin it stops cutting; I heard it was developed from the saws they used to use to cut casts off, but that might be hearsay).

That being said, I'm not enough of a power-tool expert to comment on whether other tools would work just as well.

One thing to know is that Fein is about to change the arbor design (projected for July, I believe). Now it's roundish, which I guess has been an issue for certain types of cutting; they are going to make it a star-shape to eliminate slippage (you can see this by the fact that the new blades already have the star-shaped cut-out, although they still work on the soon-to-be-old arbor). They do sell a relatively in-expensive conversion product to help the "old" arbor to be more like the star-shaped one.

Rachel

[Ric in Richmond]

Tim,

What is your shipping address? I will send you mine, you try it and send it back.

You will be ordering one.

The trick with this thing is using it in unconventional places where no other tool works and you end up saving hours of time.

I have used it to:

Cut ALL the glazing out of my 50 year old windows. out of 48 panes I broke 2 or 3.

I cut the bottom out of the deck of the boat. over the icebox on an alberg 35. No saw would do that in the space available. I then scraped all the balsa off the upper deck, sanded the space, beveled the edges of the panel to tape it back in place....all with the same tool.

Plunge cut square small holes.

Used it to cut pockets for hinges.

Scraped the labels off the back of plates (what do they use to hold that stuff one!!)

Cut the nails off a door threshold that was trapped by the door casing so I could slide it out sideways, instead of having to remove the casing. ( I was trying to get to the tile under the threshold)

Cut grout

Cut casing and trim to slide a piece of tile under them. Lay the tile down. Slap teh blade on top of the tile. plunge cut straight in...done.

Sanding around stair spindles or anywhere small and annoying.

Cutting out caulk

cleaning barncles off a prop then sanding it smooth.

It just goes on and on.

You just have to promise to send it back......


Edited to add.....

Yes the parts are EXTREMELY expensive, and I don't understand why. But as long as you are measuring it against time saved, the tools are actually cheap. Just use regular tools when regulars tools will do the job. Save the Fein for the weird stuff.

[Hirilondë]

The only thing Fein Multimaster does better than anything else in my opinion is thin, precise plunge cuts into wood and fiberglass. But, this is something I do, and need to do well.

I use the "Fein Tool" (what it is called here at work) semi-regularly. Our fiberglass people and painters/varnishers as well use one at times as well. There are situations where it can do exactly what you need, quickly and accurately. One of my prime uses is for cutting holes in bulkheads and cabinets to install electrical and electronics components.

The blades are outrageous expensive. So are the chart chips for GPSs, ink cartridges for printers, and I'm sure you can all name many more examples of "marketing". As ingenious as the tool is I will certainly try the knock-off blades when someone starts making them. It is a simple well designed tool. And Fein is making every dollar off it they can.

I use it when it really is necessary and save blades till they are truly dead.

[Ceasar Choppy]

The blades are outrageous expensive. So are the chart chips for GPSs, ink cartridges for printers, and I'm sure you can all name many more examples of "marketing". As ingenious as the tool is I will certainly try the knock-off blades when someone starts making them. It is a simple well designed tool. And Fein is making every dollar off it they can.

I'm seeing knock off blades on Ebay already. Notice how they say "blade for Fein Multi Master," not Fein MM Blade...

[Ric in Richmond]

[/quote]
Lacking anything better, I have used the Roto-Zip to cut tight areas of fiberglass decks where a real saw won't reach--usually the last corners of an otherwise vaguely rectangular circular saw cut area. I sort of figured these miracle saw blades on the Multi-Master would take over this chore. The Roto-Zip works, but the bits break every 1.7 seconds (scientifically timed...)

If the Fein won't finish off saw cuts like this, then the discussion can pretty much end here, I guess, since clearly it isn't the tool for me.[/quote]

This is absolutely one area that it shines in. You rotate the blade around to either side and (as long as you can physically get the unit IN the area) you can cut.

[Quetzalsailor]

I tried the round saw that mine came with last night. If you're really slow and gentle it's very neat and functional. If you push at all, the mounting bolt vibrates loose and the saw no longer oscillates. That's gotta be worse with the long narrow blade. Why would they make the inside hole on their attachments a star-shape if there's no corresponding star on the driving side of things; seems very silly.

I sawed the two portside frames out of my 1950s Flying Dutchman in preparation for adding stringers and new frames. The frames were a mish-mash of laminated mahogany, ash, pine and the occasional bronze screw. I appreciated the delicate touch on this glue-impaired old boat! At 20' and 280lbs, there's not much wood there.

I disagree with Tynaje; I think it's a fine (no pun...) sander. But, you must learn how much force and time to use to get good fast results and you have to be willing to trash that very expensive paper before you would otherwise.

[Rachel]

Why would they make the inside hole on their attachments a star-shape if there's no corresponding star on the driving side of things; seems very silly.

From what I understand, the tool will come out with a new, improved, star-shaped arbor sometime around July. For now, there is an ($8 if I remember correctly) adapter you can buy to make the old arbor more like the new one.

Rachel

[Capn_Tom]

Can anyone offer advice on the single speed starter model versus the variable speed. I've seen the single speed for as low as $169 but the price climbs rapidly for the variable. It's easier to take the plunge on the single but if I do it and find it of limited use it will be too painful to buy another one.

[Hirilondë]

Can anyone offer advice on the single speed starter model versus the variable speed.

For a couple years I used only a single speed version. I used it for mostly plunge cutting and a little sanding. When the adjustable speed came out I wondered why. It never occurred to me to want to change speed. Now that I have the adjustable I have come across situations where I change speed. If I couldn't I would still succeed in performing the tasks at hand with a little less efficiency at times.

I would base your decision on frequency of use.

[Rachel]

New vs. old Multimaster

Has anyone tried the new Multimaster? It's the one I mentioned earlier (before it came out) that has a star-shaped arbor to fit into the similar cut-out in the blades. In addition, I see it has a new "quick change" type of blade securing system, and they speak of more power.

I've been wanting one of these for a while (since I first borrowed one in 1998, actually).

So.... the old Multimasters are on sale now ($195 for the midline, for example) and I'm wondering if anyone has tried the new one yet, and can comment on how wonderful (or not) they are. I'm in no rush to buy this tool, but, if I wanted an older style one, now would be the time.

Good things I can think of about the old one:

1) Nice price
2) Potential to make one's own blades (there was a thread about this on Woodenboat forum - because the hole in the blade is round, it's reasonably doable). I'm not sure I use the volume to make this a plus, but on the other hand $50 a blade does hurt. The new version, with the star-shaped arbor, would make this totally impractical.

And the new one:
1) Quick change blade system (if it's good)
2) Star shape supposedly makes blades less likely to slip in certain applications.
3) Note that the "Start" bottom-of-the-line new model does not have the quick change blade feature.

So---- anyone tried the new one? Here's what it looks like (this is the top range model with all the accessories, but it's the same as the mid-range otherwise). The fore-and-aft black lever on the top of the tool head flips up to change blades/accessories:

[shep]

I had been considering getting one of these for a while, so when I read this thread recently I used it as a reason to make the purchase. I went to use it for the first time this morning and the tool has the old round mandrel (arbor?) while the attachments have the star shaped holes in them. I went back and looked at all the pictures I could find on the internet, but none of them actually show the mandrel without an attachment. I looked through the literature that came with the tool, but no explanation there either. When I ordered it, I figured that since the attachments shown in all the pictures that the suppliers display have the star shaped holes, that the Multimaster itself would have the same corresponding shape but that's not the case. So, I suppose I could go find and buy the adapter that Rachel has described, but this seems silly since I just forked over 300 bucks for something that ought to be compatible right out of the box. This is a level headed and knowledgeable group, any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Shep

[Rachel]

Hi Shep, and Welcome to the Forum!

It sounds as though you have the "old style" Multimaster. They've just come out with the new one in the last few months, so there are plenty of the others still around for sale.

They are compatible with the new (and only) blades (the blades actually came out before the new tool). i.e. the star-shaped cutout blades will fit on the old, round mandrel. Of course the new star-shaped tool won't be able to use the old blades.

The reason cited to me for the new mandrel (the star-shaped one) was to avoid any slippage when using the type of blade that wants to rotate on the Mandrel. There is an adapter that makes the old tool "grip" the new blades to a certain extent, although it doesn't look anything like as grippy as the actual star-shaped arbor would be (it's less than $10 though). This is also made by Multimaster.

I asked a buddy who has used his old-style Multimaster quite a bit whether the round arbor slipped a lot on him and he said no. He did occasionally have to give it an extra crank to tighten, but he said he wouldn't pay more just to change that.

The new ones (all except the bottom-of-the-line "Start" model) have a quick change blade feature, but this might not be the sort of tool where you're changing blades by the minute.

Not to be nosy, but for your $300 (assuming the old model), did you get the top-of-the-line model with the grey metal case? That sounds about right. If it was the middle one (orange case, I believe), that's high, as they're available for under $200 from a number of places now (and have been for at least a month).

I'd still love to hear from anyone who's actually used the new one, because I'm still considering buying one - and maybe the old model.

Rachel

[Capn_Tom]

I have the old style arbor and all my blades have the "star" shaped cutout. The arbor grips well and the blades don't slip. I would think the star shaped cutout would add a bit of flex which would allow the arbor to grip more tightly.

[petemarkey]

I am not a pro, and hardly an amateur, but I am always impressed with what my little black and decker mouse can accomplish. It comes with profile sanding fingers like the multi master. It takes a tiny screw driver to change the attachments, and I can only find the sandpaper in 5 packs are my only complaints.

Also available are srubbing and polishing pads for it, good for buffing/polishing in tight places.

oh, 1 more complaint, sometimes the "body" of the mouse is too big for where I want the finger attachments to reach.

[Hirilondë]

and I can only find the sandpaper in 5 packs

I sometimes cut my own shaped sandpaper for my Fein Tool out of large discs. Just find something with the same fastening style (sticky, hook and loop, etc). as your profile sander uses. Fein makes some great tools, but they get you on the accessories and replaceables (blades, paper, etc.).

[David]

Here's a short video of me cutting thru an inch-thick fiberglass winch pad using the metal cutting blade on the Multimaster. It too about 5 minutes to slice it off flush with the cabintop. The blade is still just as sharp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eipijz1wgu0

It's a great tool.

David