1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Post your comments and thoughts about any and all classic sailboats here.

1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby souljour2000 » Tue May 03, 2011 1:16 pm

I am looking at a '66 Columbia 29 MK II...not the flush-deck Defender...but the more traditional cabin.It seems to be pretty solid...the rigging is in good shape from what I can tell..(not able to check swages up on mast head and mid-mast yet) The guy wants $2,000...Seems to be some termite damage in some of the plywood inside which I heard Columbia didnt use marine ply during this period.I think the termites wouldnt care either way though they avoided all the mahogany and teak as far as i can tell. This boat seems built like a tank..the mast ...everythging down to the toe rails seems thick and heavy. Whatcha''ll Think.Penny for your thoughts...Thanks in advance,,the penny is in the mail...
souljour2000
Bottom Paint Application Technician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: SW Florida
Boat Type: 1966 Columbia 29 MKII

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Rachel » Tue May 03, 2011 3:42 pm

I would be happy to give you my thoughts, but I don't feel like I have enough to go on. I mean, I'm somewhat familiar with the boat model, but not "your" boat. I would say that Columbias were average/budget built boats of the day, much like many others we encounter here. Not the worst; not "premium." At this point so much depends on the individual boat and its condition/how it's been maintained or upgraded over the last 45 years.

Also, I don't know you and what you are looking for.

1) Boat ready to go sailing soon? A project to spend a few years and $10k on?

2) How much is your time worth in "unpaid" labor vs. money you make doing something else (and could therefore spend on potentially better boat). What about boat rebuild skills/tools/desire?

2) And then as far as sailing: What are your intended use(s) and expectations for it (i.e. how suitable this design would be for you vs. other ones).

Rachel
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Quetzalsailor » Tue May 03, 2011 10:05 pm

Hard to imagine termites in a fiberglass boat. They need to live in earth and travel to food 'under cover', that is with termite tunnels, etc. Google for amazing pictures of termite tunnels extending up from soil through crawl spaces and into joists. More common going up through porous masonry and into the wood.

Plenty of opportunity for several types of rot in a boat bilge.

That said, when I was 'bottom feeding' for a larger boat, my broker/mentor/friend said to buy the most complete, equipped, boat you could afford because the initial low price of a fixer-upper would quickly be overtaken by the costs of the repair parts and the toys.

Watch for the sad story and the gem-in-the-rough. Avoid the wreck, unless you really fall in love. And have the skills/money/time to bring her back to life.
User avatar
Quetzalsailor
Master of the Arcane
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Boat Name: Quetzal
Boat Type: LeComte North East 38

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Hulukupu » Wed May 04, 2011 12:07 am

Aloha souljour2000,

It sounds like you (or at least the Columbia you are looking at) are in a warmer clime where drywood termites (the worst I think is the W. Indian drywood termite, Cryptotermes brevis) can thrive in old plywood. A friend of mine in Hawaii is getting ready to "tent" his 42' sloop in order to have it fumigated because of this problem. He has a lot of sweat equity already invested in his boat. There are professional fumigators in places like Florida and Hawaii that can do this and, from your description, you'll need to factor in this cost.

Before you commit, you should get a surveyor to inspect the bulkheads. These drywood termites can eat them up, if left unchecked, but at first all you will see are minute (1 mm) kick-out holes and tiny frass (unlike the subterranean termites described in a post above). A screw driver can reveal the underlying damage (if the current owner will put up with you digging away).

Just from the information you've provided, I wouldn't go there. Look for a boat without termites.
Hulukupu
Skilled Systems Installer
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:54 pm
Location: Bristol, Maine
Boat Name: Mahana
Boat Type: Pearson Triton EC#188

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Hirilondë » Wed May 04, 2011 8:19 am

Any boat you find from the 60s, unless previously owned by a lunatic like us here is going to need a lot of work to look great. The questions to determine are concerned with how much serious structural work will it need, and how much expensive stuff you will need to buy to do the work. There are a lot of boats out there in sailing condition, with good sails, equipment, and working systems for such a price that I don't see how they can be over looked for a cheap fixer upper. There will still be plenty to do if you want these boats to look great, but at least you start with something that will save you more than it costs. I guess I am agreeing with most of the previous posts.

I basically redid every surface of everything on my boat. But I started with a structurally sound boat that needed no new bulkheads, no re-coring, or structural fiberglass work. The rig was in great shape, the sails were in good shape, the steering was in great shape, all of the hardware was intact. I put a ton of hours into the boat, but that was my lunacy. I was able to keep the materials expenses, even if I had bought them all, to a very reasonable amount. Boats like this exist, and in the end cost less than the cheap fixer upper.

And don't be afraid you won't have enough to do ;>)
Dave Finnegan
builder of Spindrift 9N #521 'Wingë'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gresham’s Law of information: Bad information drives out good. No matter how long ago a correction for a particular error may have appeared in print or online, it never seems to catch up with the ever-widening distribution of the error.
User avatar
Hirilondë
Master of the Arcane
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:50 am
Location: Charlestown, RI
Boat Name: Hirilondë
Boat Type: 1967 Pearson Renegade

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby souljour2000 » Wed May 04, 2011 9:14 am

Thanks for the replies..you guys raised some good issues that I will try to keep in mind.

.I am going back out to take one last look at her today...I know the owner a little bit and he should allow me to poke around for awhile which I heartily intend to do. The bulkhead having termite damage is a worry..I really don't want to replace that...the compression post is another thing I dont want to deal with really and all the structural plywood...If it's bad...then the boat would have to be fumigated and completely gutted...this is more work than I am up for...maybe it is not as bad...but I won't know until I really spend some time on her today poking and probing...I'll distract the owner with a cold 6-pack I'll bring along....while I gouge and poke...I will not be sharing in a cold one as I need to be completely sober for this operation...I don't need a nightmare boat in my life..I already have one sorta...the boat I have now still needs lots of work but this Columbia at least has 6'2 headroom as opposed to 4'11 on my 24 -foot Seafarer...and I am a liveaboard now recently. But...if there is damage to bulkheads and structural ply...that might be a deal-breaker....there are bigger 27-footers out there than this narrow CCA 29...that are from the 1970's and relatively cheap and dont have termites....(grimaces)..this old gal is such a looker though...well...we'll see guys..I'll try to post some actual pics of her whether I buy or not...I'll bring the camera along...
souljour2000
Bottom Paint Application Technician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: SW Florida
Boat Type: 1966 Columbia 29 MKII

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Rachel » Wed May 04, 2011 10:40 pm

souljour2000 wrote:.well...we'll see guys..I'll try to post some actual pics of her whether I buy or not...I'll bring the camera along...


Sounds like you're going into it with eyes open. An ice pick is your friend (poke, poke... hmm, what have we here?)

And we never get tired of photos around here, so if you can post some I know you will have an appreciative audience.

Rachel
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby souljour2000 » Wed May 04, 2011 10:41 pm

Okay... Well...I decided I am up for another project...after looking at the boat again today....I decided I am up for the challenge. I will post pics soon..forgot the camera this morning but will be back out to her on Friday. Will take alot of pics as I can post.of as much as I can...and try to photo-document her restoration or at least a complete snapshot of her condition 45 years after her original build date in order to get more info about what happens to a boat of this vintage and build quality over the years.

I think the Columbia 29 MK II has been overlooked by some...the Defender 29 had the same hull but the flush-deck left something to be desired aesthetically but was probably a better sailor and bluewater boat...and the Defender is much roomier( with no side decks afterall.) There are other boats who have also slipped through the cracks. I think one reason this and other Columbia's have is due to the problems with some of the later Columbia's and due to the BIG-box/ reputation that Columbia had much like Hunter has endured now since Columbia passed the torch to them in the late 70's/early 80's

.I have heard the similar-constructed Alberg 30's had problems with their laminated compression posts...the similar one on my boat looks good. I also heard that Alberg 30's often had iron keels..that is also not an issue with this boat..It is 4,120 lb lead keel and a overall disp. of 8,400 lbs...almost a 2-1 ratio. I expect to have a major project here that will consume several years to get her right...I will be doing most of the work myself ... I know there is alot of work to do and expenses ahead but I have learned alot in forums like this from folks much more experienced in all phases of sailboats. I hope to learn more and at least improve the condition of this boat alot while I own it and ...like the Hippocratic Oath... at very least..."do no harm"....to a boat that I think Sparkman and Stephen's must have been proud of....Okay..termites be warned.!!!...I am soon heading to the aisle section of Walmart to buy some termite bombs...just to be sure...wish the lovebugs would skedaddle as well..they are simply thick down here in SW FLorida this year...
Last edited by souljour2000 on Fri May 06, 2011 3:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
souljour2000
Bottom Paint Application Technician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: SW Florida
Boat Type: 1966 Columbia 29 MKII

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Hirilondë » Thu May 05, 2011 7:49 am

souljour2000 wrote:.............. and due to the BIG-box reputation that Columbia had much like Hunter has endured now since Columbia passed the torch to them in the late 70's/early 80's


The only Columbia that really bothered me was the 22, although the 26 came close. We used to call these "Shoebox 22s" In an effort to make cruisable boats that were smaller and smaller and hence cheaper they eventually crossed way too far over the line of sacrificing aesthetics for room. Everyone has this line in a different place, but I didn't know anyone who had it far enough over to like the 22.

If you think you are getting enough boat and equipment for your money, and you have your eyes open for what you are getting into, then this may be just what you should do. Have fun with the project. This is just as important in making it worth while as anything else.
Dave Finnegan
builder of Spindrift 9N #521 'Wingë'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gresham’s Law of information: Bad information drives out good. No matter how long ago a correction for a particular error may have appeared in print or online, it never seems to catch up with the ever-widening distribution of the error.
User avatar
Hirilondë
Master of the Arcane
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:50 am
Location: Charlestown, RI
Boat Name: Hirilondë
Boat Type: 1967 Pearson Renegade

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby souljour2000 » Thu May 05, 2011 2:36 pm

Thanks for all the responses from everyone..this is a great forum with some super-knowledgeable people...I am getting there I think as far as

learning about the progressive history of 20th century boatbuilding and some of the regressive...I am patiently awaiting the time when I can board my new boat and begin to really get some ideas of where to start the renovation.Unfortunately...if you have followed this thread...there was a termite problem..(probably long past by the looks of things so far) but nevertheless...the beginning of our journey may end with some deaths of our insect friends though I really hope there isn't anyone in there to eradicate..I just want to make sure I am starting with a clean, dirty slate if you follow. Bombing her good with some termite bombs and assuring some plastic covering over the hatches/cockpit lockers,etc while doing so will have to be the first order of business.

After that business is dealt with...I will be evacuating what I'm fairly sure is a mix of rainwater and condensation seepage that hopefully looks be at least less than 10 gallons or so...that is down in the bilges...hopefully less than that amount. Then I hope to get the boat as watertight as possible and seek out anything that can interfere with that goal.....After a few weeks I should have a better picture of what needs fixed/re-sealed/ etc. or if I have simply made a grave mistake. I am optimistic that from what I have seen any leaks are fairly innocuous and should be fairly easy to isolate and eliminate but it's really too early to tell. until I have delved about in her more private parts I'm afraid...

Once any leaks have been dealt with...it will be safe to proceed....In the meantime.....when I am bored with leak -attenuation duties,,I may start to think about what i would really like the cabin layout to be for my own wants as there is no inboard motor in the "doghouse"...the dog having gone missing permanenetly and a fairly robust outboard motor bracket w/ supported wooden flanking swim platforms installed instead.( and that vacant doghouse space has not been utilised by the former owners other than possibly a misc. storage area). Also...I will assess my galley requirements as this is a good time for mods to the countertop area which is per the norm to starboard where there was a fair bit of termite damage...more than anywhere else it seems evidenced by the most pronounced carpentry response to termite damage.... by the former owner(s)....that I have yet witnessed.

(to be cont.) ......(with photos when I can get aboard...latest owner still has some stuff and sundries aboard that need to be removed)
souljour2000
Bottom Paint Application Technician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: SW Florida
Boat Type: 1966 Columbia 29 MKII

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Rachel » Thu May 05, 2011 3:55 pm

souljour2000 wrote:I am getting there I think as far as learning about the progressive history of 20th century boatbuilding and some of the regressive...


If you haven't read "Heart of Glass: Fiberglass Boats and the Men Who Built Them," by Daniel Spurr, I bet you would really enjoy it.

You might also like "The Elements of Boat Strength: For Builders, Designers, and Owners," by Dave Gerr. There will be a lot of info you don't use, because you are not building a boat from scratch, and because he also covers wood and steel boats; but on the other hand, it explains a lot about fiberglass boat scantlings, how the forces work, etc. This might be one to just take out of the library and peruse vs. buy, since much of it will not be applicable.
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby souljour2000 » Thu May 05, 2011 8:47 pm

Rachel..I have heard of this book before...thanks for mentioning it ....I had forgotten about it and I am even more interested in this subject now. I will check the library system countywide and see what happens....The other book sounds good too..will look for them....I have been trying to find out more about structural grids and scantlings,etc...Someone should write a book about it with the sailboat owner in mind who wants to beef up his/her 25+ year boat...and incorporate grid/scantlings/knees to relieve the already stressed old fiberglass gals and keep 'em sailing into the next century...or at least extend their lives for who knows how long..
souljour2000
Bottom Paint Application Technician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: SW Florida
Boat Type: 1966 Columbia 29 MKII

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Quetzalsailor » Thu May 05, 2011 10:51 pm

Don't fear compression posts. They're just posts, after all, not rocket science (once you've got the base and capital in shape.) Take a much more careful look at bulkheads, tabbing and so on - much harder to fiddle with. Ditto cores and reinforced decks. Ditto carbon steel components buried out of sight and rusting away. (A much tougher problem is the beam that some small boats have to avoid the mast, or a compression post coming through a small space.)

I would suggest that boats from the antediluvian age of fiberglass have all sorts of 'good first guesses' about what was good enough, and then you have the builders who'd figured out where to save a little money as well as a little weight; some of these things don't pass the test of excessive decades.

This list is populated with bright, experienced folks with knowledge - and a certain lapse of sense. Ask, share anything, and learn. The learning is why I keep coming back every day.
User avatar
Quetzalsailor
Master of the Arcane
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Boat Name: Quetzal
Boat Type: LeComte North East 38

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Hulukupu » Fri May 06, 2011 2:19 am

Congratulations on your new boat. If your termite damage is limited to the galley and old, at that, I wouldn't worry too much. Walmart termite bombs won't rid your boat of these critters, but removing infested wood will help. Once you've got your Columbia ship shape and cruising, the best cure would be to sail it to New England or Canada and storing it for a couple of winters where it freezes hard. That will even rid you of cockroaches.
Hulukupu
Skilled Systems Installer
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:54 pm
Location: Bristol, Maine
Boat Name: Mahana
Boat Type: Pearson Triton EC#188

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby souljour2000 » Fri May 06, 2011 3:46 am

Thanks for the replies and advice from all.....I am going out to the mooring field with my Seafarer24 tomorrow and be living there for a week or so and hopefully getting some stuff off the seafarer and onto the Columbia. It will be nice to have some headroom..I have been living on the seafarer 24 off and on for almost 2 months and it wasn't working...great little boat but no headroom in my particular model......4'11")..Um...Yeah.

Might still sleep on it though....has a nice twin settee...and have something to sail while I work on the C 29 MKII

The biggest worry as Hulu I think mentioned is the forward bulkhead and the water damage evident in the wood around the chainplate bolts...not a good thing...very serious....and I will no doubt need the expertise and help of folks here to get through that immense project which may have to be started soon. There are many good things too...though more cosmetic in nature. The thick 3" tubular aluminum motor bracket allows for a heavy outboard..right now..a 9.8 sailmaster will have to do....though some steering extension handle longer than the one I have may be needed. The aluminum motor bracket supports some nice wood-topped squarish swim platforms to either side which allows one to get out of dinghy's very easily as well on either side of stern. The teak toerail is in great shape..and the cockpit coaming boards are too...the hatches appear okay ...but need attention...and the two solid teak cockpit lazarette lids seem even well-varnished as well as in great shape...! Mainsail is new and crispy...jib not so much....

Anyways... I hope to post pics when I get back...no internet except public library for awhile...though this libraries comps allow external flash drive uploading...for now...so we'll see...maybe can post some pics soon...Au revoir...
souljour2000
Bottom Paint Application Technician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: SW Florida
Boat Type: 1966 Columbia 29 MKII

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby EKE » Mon May 16, 2011 8:09 pm

If I'm not mistaken, the Columbia 29 is a Sparkman & Stephens design. It's a pretty boat in my opinion - nice swoopy sheerline and a classic Olin Stephens transom. Congratulations!

Image

I don't think Mr. Stephens ever designed an ugly boat.
Erik Evens
Robin Lee - Yankee Dolphin #118
Los Angeles, CA
User avatar
EKE
Deck Grunge Scrubber
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:20 pm
Boat Name: Robin Lee
Boat Type: Yankee Dolphin #118

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby souljour2000 » Wed May 18, 2011 9:14 pm

Thank you Eke!..I'm fairly excited...And thanks for that pic you posted ..that boat is a dandy..I'm a bit confused though..says it is a Yankee Dolphin...we're the sparkman/Stephens molds for the C-29 MK II sold and re-made by another cmpany?..Hmm...that would be cool. Anyways....I tried to post some pics yesterday...then file was too big...then went to photoshop on this comp but my kid had apparently changed a format size that confused me..and well..I am working on getting him to change it back..then I will post some pics...anyways...things are looking good so far...after closer inspection that is....so far..
souljour2000
Bottom Paint Application Technician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: SW Florida
Boat Type: 1966 Columbia 29 MKII

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby EKE » Thu May 19, 2011 12:36 pm

souljour2000 wrote:Thank you Eke!..I'm fairly excited...And thanks for that pic you posted ..that boat is a dandy..I'm a bit confused though..says it is a Yankee Dolphin...we're the sparkman/Stephens molds for the C-29 MK II sold and re-made by another cmpany?..Hmm...that would be cool. Anyways....I tried to post some pics yesterday...then file was too big...then went to photoshop on this comp but my kid had apparently changed a format size that confused me..and well..I am working on getting him to change it back..then I will post some pics...anyways...things are looking good so far...after closer inspection that is....so far..


You should be excited! I've always thought the 29 was the prettiest of the Columbia line.

I think you mistook my forum signature for a caption to the photo. :) That's a photo of a Columbia 29 I was considering purchasing a few years back. I now own a Yankee Dolphin 24, also a S&S design, but smaller (and a keel/centerboarder). There is certainly a family resemblance, though, especially in the hull form above the waterline and in the sheer. I think a bit of the Dolphin DNA was passed down to the Columbia 29 through the pencil of Mr. Stephens.

Here's a couple of photos of my boat:

Image

Image
Erik Evens
Robin Lee - Yankee Dolphin #118
Los Angeles, CA
User avatar
EKE
Deck Grunge Scrubber
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:20 pm
Boat Name: Robin Lee
Boat Type: Yankee Dolphin #118

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby souljour2000 » Thu May 19, 2011 6:48 pm

Hey..that is a fine-looking boat...it really does resemble the C-29...in fact I thought it WAS a C-29 at first glance...your right they are very similar in their lines...I had heard of the Yankee Dolphin...and I found your YOUTUBE video...I still thought it was a C_29 copy at that point maybe though it somehow looked a little bit smallerl...funny...but the C-29 really isnt that big of a boat either compared to many... so I chalked it up to camera angle and so forth still thinking it was a C-29...The veeberth area of the C-29 is fairly small and not much different than my Seafarer 24...but the headroom in the airy main cabin is still like heaven to me...thanks again for posting these great pics..I dont know what is going on with Photoshop or what I am doing wrong so I have shrunk the file size of the pics my little digital camera takes...and then hopefully I can post some in here this after weekend when I get back out to her.There is alot of work to be done...the termites made a real mess of her cabin...there is even a small piece of mahogany trim that they sampled which was a tad disturbing...there may be more surprises in store..I'm sure but encouraged that the area around the chainplates at least was intact...and the rigging it seems had only some surface rust which wasn't hardened...and deeper.....I thought it looked good though..been "scouting her for awhile".the forestay turnbuckle has a slight bend in the final section where it links to the bow (prow?)hardware thingy ....I have a good 3/8 th turnbuckle made of SS that I picked up somewhere that might be a good replacement here soon..Anyways....I finally got the title today...well..in MY NAME....the guy still hadnt changed it from the name of the owner HE bought it from in February of this year and so I had to take him down there...turns out he knew one of the tax clerks and she got me registered at the Antique vessel rate...$25.00 inially I believe then $10.00/year if it is in the system now...she mighta hid the paper trail a little and did things in aburry...either way...I dont know...just glad I didnt have to pay much after hustling all morning...pawned my 5hp motor and sold an air conditioner that was in the back shed on craigslist just to get the 160.00 I had expected to pay...then got off for alot less...All the hustle was worth it...it's a good feeling....she's a great old boat...she need some TLC though...okay...getting sappy...thats all for now...lol...peace out...
souljour2000
Bottom Paint Application Technician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: SW Florida
Boat Type: 1966 Columbia 29 MKII

Re: 1966 Columbia 29 MK II

Postby Chris Campbell » Thu May 19, 2011 7:49 pm

This won't fix your photoshop problem, but if you check out the thread linked to below, the last entry contains a link to instructions on using Irfanview (free tool readily available for download, Google it) to resize as many images as you'd like in short order.

http://www.plasticclassicforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4644&p=40564&hilit=irfanview#p40564
User avatar
Chris Campbell
Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:18 am
Location: Chester, NS
Boat Name: Luna
Boat Type: Yankee 30


Return to Classic Sailboats



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron