Ballpark Cost ($ per square foot)

This is the place for information on various types of permanent and temporary boat shops and other project shelters.
Post Reply
Leah

Ballpark Cost ($ per square foot)

Post by Leah »

I know it's rude to ask about cost but just a rough idea would really be helpful to those of us thinking about buildging a boat barn. You really did a nice job & many of your ideas I would incorporate into mine. Thanks, Chuck
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
Posts: 2845
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
Boat Name: Triton
Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
Location: L.I. Sound

Post by Figment »

hey, that is a really useful piece of info!

c'mon Tim! the IRS ain't watching this board!
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

Here is a rough breakdown of costs:

Site work: 200' x 14' driveway excavated to 12" depth and replaced with 3" crushed gravel (bank run), compacted with roller. 34' x 44' pad w/ 15" of sand fill and 12" of 3" crushed gravel, with additional 12' x 40' pad next to building area. 16' culvert and additional fill in one area. Total cost: $7788 (Contractor: Scott Dugas)

Barn Shell Construction: 30x40' barn, 8:12 roof trusses, 30 year roof shingles, full-length ridge and soffit vents, 2x6 wall construction 16"OC, tripled headers, etc. as required, T1-11 siding, 1X pine door, corner, soffet and facia trim. 6" concrete slab with reinforcing steel grid and 2" styrofoam insulation beneath, and labor to construct, sheathe, and roof entire shell. Total cost (including concrete slab): $20,300 (Contractor: Bob Emery)

Transfer of Electrical Power to Barn: Replacement of house electrical panel with new, move old panel to barn, run appropriate supply cable. I contracted this job out, though I wired the subpanel in the barn myself. This was the one real surprise of the whole project, as it cost WAY more than I had anticipated (2 guys for a full day...). In fairness, part of this cost did involve an upgrade to the house panel, so a portion of this cost technically shouldn't be included in the barn total. But I wouldn't have incurred the cost otherwise, so it's included here. Total cost: $1840 (Contractor: Burleigh Electric)

Everything Else: Electrical conduit and ditch witch, electrical wiring, fixtures, insulation, white poly sheeting, additional trim, paint, windows, building permit, four large rolling doors and associated hardware, bench materials, etc. Total Cost: $7500 (Contractor: Yours Truly)

Impressions Now That it's Over: Obviously, it was worth it. Never (with the exception of the Glissando project) have I enjoyed the ultimate resolution of a large money expenditure more than with the new shop. The site work cost more than I had hoped, but at least I know that I got a high quality job and a driveway/slab base that won't turn to mush. I probably could have had marginal site work done for less cost, but why fool around. I stuck with a contractor I know and trust.

The running of cable and redoing the house electrical panel (an upgrade) was a shock (no pun intended) when I received the bill. Most of the cost, of course, was the labor: 2 men for 9 hours at $45/hr each. Yikes. Now, they didn't shirk, and the cost accurately reflected the work performed. It's just that it doesn't take long before a combined hourly cost of $90 really adds up. I'm sure there are less expensive electricians around. I don't price shop--I stick with those who have given me good service and quality in the past, and those whose work I can count on.

Could the identical structure be built for less? Oh, probably--I'm sure there's always someone who can accomplish anything that I do for less money. I'm not much for shopping things around to death--to me, good value is fair, and no need to kill myself to save an additional 5 or 10%. My time's too valuable to waste driving around shopping or messing with the phone. I look for fair prices, decent value, and call it good. It's always possible to buy something for less. I do what I can, but can only take this so far.

I purchased most of the materials for doors, benches, insulation, etc. through Bob Emery, who simply charged me whatever the lumber yard charged him (just gave me the slip from the yard, and I wrote a check. Very fair, and tough to beat.

There you have it. More than you asked for, but why not indeed?
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Dave, 397

Making a good place to work

Post by Dave, 397 »

Although not as high-zoot as Tim's shop, I have to say that I am very pleased to have a good indoor place to work as well.

Whether it is fine woodwork, boat repairs, race car fabrication, auto repairs, etc.--I think that it is really worth while to have a good, well-lit place to work with ample storage and organization. A person can do it in the basement, in the boatyard under tarps, do the car in the driveway, do the racecar in a chicken shack...but it gets done much easier and faster, with less lost time and less wasted materials if it is done in a remotely proper shop.

A shop does not necessarily have to be expensive, either. Certainly, a nice building like Tim's is really the ideal way to go, plus it is a structure--in his case--that is his own, and also very convenient to his house.

We have been able to obtain the use of a building in the boatyard we work with very inexpensively--it was a very nice favor. At the same time, it was really just a big shack---nearly no light, leaky roof, and only 3 walls. Still, there it is.

I got a bunch of flourescent fixtures out of a construction dumpster, tubes and all...I end up with something close to spray-booth lighting...the ones down lower are faced with inexpensive chicken wire that was spray-painted white. Wired with "used" or "scrap" wire. That was free too. To enhance the light in the building, we put white construction plastic on the walls, like what's inside Tim's barn (only not as nicely done!). Used 1-1/2 rolls at 40 bucks a throw. We had some white tarps I got cheap at a fire sale that we stretched across under the rafters. Everything that could be painted white has been, with a couple gallons of old paint that a buddy was throwing out when he cleaned out his garage.

Built a removable, modular wall at the front of the building out of 2x4 and sheathing ply, with a used steel man door donated by a contractor friend.
Installed an old, large handi-billy of wood blocks and huge manila line to hoist things around...it was given to us in a large lot of used marine stuff that was donated by a friend a few months back after he sold his boat.

I constructed a raised work platform (or "dock", in boat plant terms) that comes up to the stern of the boat and wraps upside the cockpit. Made it out of a large machinery skid that showed up in the yard and some scrap ply and 2x4. Sits up on barrels and blocking timbers and is lagged to the building structure. (it can come apart modularly, too, so maybe the next guy can get some use from it.) Put some pallets underneath, covered with a large part of a tarp I pulled out of the trash as a moisture barrier. Cut down the width of some other palllets and put them on the ground under the side catwalks (the building is an old floating boathouse that was put up on a foundation of huge concrete blocks) and covered them with tarpaulin from WalMart (9.95 for two) to provide more storage. Made a lumber rack on the wall from scrap 2x4 and plywood. Built a set of steps that go up to the boat from the dock and can be moved around.

I replaced the broken windows with some cheap 1/8" acrylic, and put security mesh inside made from an old chain link fence section that was out in the back 40 of the yard that we spray-painted white.

We got some old school lockers from the local recycled building material store for 20 bucks, and I made some simple shelves inside from plywood and 1x2.

The compressor draws air in from outside through an intake made from an inexpensive clothes-drier vent, window mesh and furnace filter material.

Bunk and jacks will be painted white shortly...I got a killer deal on the spraypaint at 12 bucks for a case of 12. Not a perfect-coverage job, but it helps.

Biggest challenge was the cruddy old (Steep! Slick!) sheetmetal roof. Leaked like a sieve, especially when the wind blew and sheets of water would come down...I was warned that the roof was leaky, but this was beyond leaky and close to "no roof". The wind had many times funneled in the open front of the shed and pushed up against...most of the nails were standing 1/2" (!) proud of the roof! The trusses were not all exactly perfect around those leaky nails, so besides driving all the up-stickers down I took a coil nailer and re-nailed it all. De-leak-ified it by slopping cold patch over every nail and every seam. Took several attempts befor it was all good...actually, it still drips in a couple of places if the wind blows just right and it is raining like mad, but the drips are fortunately not anywhere they matter. I have buckets to handle that!

The yard manager saw how much time I spent on that roof, and asked how much it had cost to fix it. Put a corresponding credit on our account--these are very nice people.

I got a 100,000 BTU kerosene-fired heater ("jet tube" or "salamander") that did not work from another fellow at the yard for free...the main problem seems to be the plugged air filter and the fuel tank full of mixed waste oil/diesel. I made it run, but not consistently. Need to get rid of the "fuel", clean it out, etc...but haven't gotten there yet.

Overall it has taken about 7 weeks' time that could have been spent on the boat, and somewhere between 800-1000.00 to get it done (and on my budget, that's a lot of money to spend on something I'm only renting!). This includes buying a good-sized vertical compressor(used) that I will sell when we are done.

When it rains hard, water does run under the foundation and across the floor, making a goopy mess to muck up my air hoses. I'll be working on a stone job next month, and perhaps there will be a few sacks of mortar and some sealer left over that can be used to try and fix or minimize the problem.

Thing is, though...now we have a good place to work. I collected my staionary equipment from the people I had had it stashed with here and there, got the roller cabinet out of the bedroom closet, got all the materials out from under the beds and out of the closets and it is all in one place. I don't have to work out of tool bags or out of my car trunk anymore, and I don't have to worry about dust containment or inclement weather. Materials don't get ruined from exposure, rumpling in the car, etc., and I don't have to spend all the time running 100' of extension cord and airhose every time I work and then rolling it up when I'm done. I don't have to go running over to a friend's shop everytime I want to use the tablesaw, and I don't waste time and gas running home for the thing I forgot.

At that rate, the price was cheap (and I'd be halfway there with one paintjob that got rained on, at least!), and the time spent frustratingly working on the shop and not the boat will be easily regained. Like a mentor-type in motorsports told me a long time ago, "you gotta put yourself in the best position to win".

Dave
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

One can certainly make do with less, that's for sure. I was pretty pleased with my lousy 2x4 and plastic work shed inside of which I completed the 2-year restoration on my boat, but it sure was imperfect. But I still got the job done, and was grateful for the shelter that I had, and that I wasn't stuck working under a tarp at the local boatyard.

There are any number of "in between" solutions for work space that fit the bill just fine. For a one-time project, it only makes sense to come up with a relatively temporary structure. A rented building, however derelict, fits this bill...so does a plastic or tarped structure like I originally used, or even one of the "portable" garages that are widely available (though these get so expensive for the size needed for a boat that one has to look long and hard at just building a real building--I did). Any sort of inside work space, however temporary, makes a huge difference in quality and productivity. I can't even imagine undertaking many of the jobs I have without at least some form of structure.

However, once one makes the commitment, through whatever mental instability it takes, to build a "real" structure, there's only one way to do it: the right way. Cutting corners and such will only become an increasing headache later. Cost containment is still required, however--but this is vastly different from cost-cutting. Containment means limiting the costs as much as possible, while still ensuring overall quality and utility. Cost cutting, however, would likely entail elimination of certain features that might diminsh the overall value and usability of the building. Or at least that's how I approach it.

Obviously, the first criterium for any building is the available budget. An honest, realistic look at finances will point the way. It's best not to kid yourself at this stage--one must be at least prepared for the possibility of higher than anticipated costs. We all know that most projects--boat and home related--tend to cost more in time and labor than originally anticipated. Being prepared for this eventuality means that, while you may shake your head afterwards in rueful mockery of your investment, at least you'll be able to see the project through to completion--and will have an end result that is pleasing and value-packed.

I am understandably fortunate to have the property, neighborhood, and wherewithall (barely) to make the new shop come together, but I have to remember that I have not only gained the incredible work space and all the value it brings to me and my projects, but also have increased the overall value of my property, and increased its saleability (at least to anyone who has the remotest interest or need for some form of storage or work space--which, around here, is just about everyone). Even people who don't lift a finger on their own boat repairs would, on some level, be attracted to a place where they could store their boat, ostensibly to "work on it all winter".

I am able to justify what I did not only because of the incredible enhancement to my productivity through current and (assuredly) future projects, but also because of this perceived value enhancement to my property. A future buyer need not even be a boater--contractors, business owners, people with too much stuff, yuppies who like to dabble in the hands-on world, RV owners, etc...all these types of people would be attracted to a property that already contained a barn, even if (or perhaps all the more so because) they would never build the structure for themselves.

I went for usable work space and overall utility, but still wanted a building that would be attractive--both to me, to my neighbors, and to some future potential buyer of my property. I made my choices based on these criteria. Anyone undertaking a similar project must do the same, and proceed accordingly.

If you have the inclination and space to build a permanent structure, I can guarantee you won't be sorry afterwards. I love my shop...and am emminently grateful every single day.
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
User avatar
Tim
Shipwright Extraordinaire
Posts: 5708
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
Contact:

Post by Tim »

By the way, Dave: It would be helpful and of interest to all, I'm sure, if you could snap some pictures of your workspace. I've seen the few photos you have on Yahoo, but would be interested in some more...if you're so inclined. You can send 'em to me and I'll be happy to post them.

Shop and project hounds everywhere want to see!
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Leah

Post by Leah »

Thanks for the great info. The way I see it you got a well-built barn for a pretty fair price. Adding the contractor's names was a nice touch. In the past I have used some of the services I have seen on your website and have never been disappointed. Steve at Morse Overland Marine hauled my boat to my house this season and did a great job. This was the first time I have hauled the boat home and was somewhat nervous but Steve answered all my questions and put my mind at ease. He even recommended a guy to shrink wrap my boat, Tom Mcgrath ,who did a excellent job. Thanks again Chuck
Dave, 397

Post by Dave, 397 »

Will Do!

The pics that are out there are pretty much "Befores", we just had the tarps across above and a half-baked plastic job on one wall.

I shall forward as soon as I dig myself out of my shipping nightmare (I live off E-bay) and get the sign on the front wall painted in...Jess would not forgive me anytime soon if any pictures got sent that didn't include the painted faux-neon sign that she thought up (lower case here represent the "burned-out" letters):

'MOrgaNSTERn BOAT WORKS'

Inside on the wall, of course, we have written the immortal words of "Big Paul" from 'American Chopper', too...

"What was, was--and what is is is! And this what is, is what's happening right now!"

Since she doesn't go to public school, I have to make sure she doesn't miss out on the wonders of Sharpie Pen on School Locker---"This week on an all-new Monster Boat Works...can Jessie and her crew of manic mechanics turn this tired coastal cruiser in to a fast engineless passagemaker?"

And, of course, the obligatory theme song...which I am now sorry to have helped make up to the tune of the 'Monster House' theme...she sings this thing daily:
Our Boat /Was Plain and Simple
She was Pure and Normal
She Was Nice and Sweet
But we all Agreed/She could use a Change
And then Something Happened that was very Strange
All these Tarps Went Up/and the Dust Went Flyin'
And I felt like Cryin'/Till the Job was Done
Now she's a Monster Boat/She's a Monster Boat
She's a Monster Boat/And we All Just Love Her
She's a Monster Boat
(...paintfumesinn the Braiiiinnn)
Post Reply