Boat Shop V 2.0

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Boat Shop V 2.0

Post by Tim »

You knew it had to happen.

Tired of an increasing feeling of metropolis and growing traffic, and to fulfill a long-standing desire for a large piece of property with space and quiet, last March Heidi and I bought 50 acres of land (a pleasing mix of wide open hayfields and native pine forest) about an hour from here. Since then, we've been working to prepare the property for our eventual habitation. We expect to move next year.

Much has been happening to satisfy that schedule. A significant amount of work has already been accomplished, including driveway, site work, buried electric service, well, and septic. But that's not of great relevance here.

Number one on the project list, though, is construction of a new boat shop, which is well beyond the planning stages and will actually begin in earnest within a week or two with a new concrete slab. Yes, we "just" built the shop here (2 years ago), but even if our schedule was somewhat accelerated by finding a perfect (for us) piece of property sooner than expected, we have no regrets nor second thoughts. By the time we move, I'll have had three full seasons in the current shop, more than enough to justify its existence, as well as to help fine-tune things for the newer version.

With business taking a new and interesting track, and an ongoing need for personal project space as well, a new and larger shop was, and is, a priority. The new building will be stick built.

Some salient features of version 2.0:

1. With a size of 40x60, plus a 15x15 office space, the actual floor space of the new facility will be more than double the existing shop. The office area will be only a typical 8' in height, and sort of "inserted" into the back corner of the building, projecting 5' out on both sides.

2. Two dedicated and separate boat bays, each 20' wide and 40' long, which open at the rear into a separate woodworking shop, 20' wide and 30' long.

Image

3. Bathroom with slop sink, and utility room for heating needs and storage. This photo shows the office area bumpout and installed drain plumbing.

Image

4. Radiant floor heat in the slab, oil-fired boiler, all chosen after much consideration, price comparison, and ultimate needs.

5. At the back corner of the shop, above the bath and storage areas, will be a second-floor area for paint storage and varnish clean room.

6. Attic trusses will provide a huge storage space above the entire building.

7. Commercial overhead doors, 18' wide by 16' tall, in the boat bays. No more warpy rolling doors, at least for the big openings.

As it stands now, only the basic footprint of the building can be seen, as the formwork for the slab is set and positioned. Concrete is due perhaps next week, or the week after. Slab insulation and rebar still needs to be completed, and the tubing for the radiant floor heating must be installed first.

Image

Is this one big enough? The formwork makes it look small. I don't know, but it's a stretch to build this one for sure. I've hired out the framing, but will do most of the rest myself. (As if I have nothing else to do...)

Much more to come.
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Re: Boat Shop V 2.0

Post by dasein668 »

It's about time you let everyone in on this! hehe
Tim wrote:Is this one big enough?
Well, as we had discussed, at least this design would probably allow for the addition of another bay at one end if you really do outgrow it. Modular design?sort of...
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Post by MikeD »

Awesome Tim! I do, however, think a couple of things are missing from your new boat barn design: what about a shower and kitchenette? I mean, you will be living in there after all!

:)
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Post by george »

Do you ever just drink beer!?

Congratulations on the barn, it will look even better full of boats!
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Post by dasein668 »

george wrote:Do you ever just drink beer!?
Well, I can tell you from experience that he certainly just drinks Mt. Gay during cruising! My liver is still recovering...
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Post by Figment »

That looks like a very very sweet setup. Amazing, really.

The formwork of any building looks small. Don't sweat it.
Then the frame goes up and it feels HUGE.
Then the walls get enclosed and it feels small again.
Then lighting and doors and windows and other details fill in the gaps and it slowly starts to feel normal. Such is the rollercoaster ride of a building coming out of the ground.

Congrats to the Proud Papa!
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Post by Curmudgeon »

Instead of a typical entrance door between the 'upper' boat bay and the woodshop, why not have a sliding door centered in the wall that would give you the flexibility of increasing the bay size should the need (+40 footer) arise?
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Re: Boat Shop V 2.0

Post by Figment »

Tim wrote: With business taking a new and interesting track,
ok, I'll bite. What's this new and interesting track? I can imagine a thousand things that could happen in such an enviable facility.

I'm also really interested in a "lessons learned" discussion regarding V1.0, once your mind has room for a retrospective.
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Post by heartofgold »

Well if there are no other takers....I claim dibbs on V1.0.
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Post by Tim »

heartofgold wrote:Well if there are no other takers....I claim dibbs on V1.0
That'd be quite a hefty commute, wouldn't it?
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Post by Tim »

Curmudgeon wrote:Instead of a typical entrance door between the 'upper' boat bay and the woodshop, why not have a sliding door centered in the wall that would give you the flexibility of increasing the bay size should the need (+40 footer) arise?
The size, shape, and location of the doors that communicate between the wood shop and the boat bays are still up in the air and subject to later change according to whim. Certainly a large door here makes good sense, though I hadn't considered the potential to accept boats longer than the boat bays.

I had been thinking of something like 5' or 6' wide by 10' high rolling doors here, but perhaps something larger makes better sense. Good thought.
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Post by Tim »

Figment wrote:I'm also really interested in a "lessons learned" discussion regarding V1.0, once your mind has room for a retrospective.
OK, here are some thoughts in that general direction, running the gamut from trivial to important, and in no particular order.

1. In V1.0, I installed 3-way switches and wiring for the overhead lights, with switches at the main man door (entry door) and across the shop at the side rolling door. The extra switches and wiring are a waste--I never have used the second set of switches. As installing these required a substantial amount of extra wiring, and for no gain, I do not intend to install such switches in the new shop. Instead, I may install a simple, small wall light near any potential entry door, with a nearby switch--just enough to light the given space if required. No more 3 ways. (Let it go, gutter minds...hehe)

2. The pine doors hung on rolling door hardware were OK for V1.0, but the large ones in the front are sort of a pain, and are really too large for the capacity of the hardware. I would not, and am not, using this hardware again for such large doors. Instead, I'm going with overhead doors (insulated steel sectional) with chain operators.

3. In conceiving the large door opening in V1.0, I ultimately decided upon a width that would allow the doors to open completely without sticking past the sides of the building--hence the three overlapping sections. However, this was more restrictive to truck access to the inside of the building than I had anticipated, what with 4' wide solid walls on each side of the opening. The new shop will have minimal sidewalls surrounding the doors--only 1' on each side, to allow for a maximum opening.

4. The separate wood shop is key to the design of V2.0. While I am not complaining, there's no doubt that having the woodworking operations occurring directly beneath the boats, with resulting dust and mess, is less than ideal. Frankly, my focus changed enough once V1.0 was built that this observation only arose after the fact, though it's doubtful anything would have changed in the construction given our needs at the time, as well as the notion that V1.0 would only be a stepping stone in the process, since a move elsewhere was virtually assured. The only question there was the timing of the move.

5. The high windows in the wall have been outstanding, and are highly recommended. I also very much like the lower windows in the back wall to give me a view out, but the light from the high windows is great, while retaining the use of the sidewalls for storage, shop equipment, or what have you.

6. The 16' wall height is more than adequate unless one anticipates working on boats with 7 or 8' draft, or greater. I don't foresee this ever, partly because boats of this size are too tall for easy over-road travel, so I'm sticking with 16' walls. (However, the new shop will have a 7" curb above the slab, so the walls will actually be closer to 17' inside.)

7. Vinyl siding on the new shop to eliminate the need to paint. It was OK once, but painting the T-111 was a real chore. I hate vinyl, but for a working shop I don't mind.

8. The single Monitor heater worked really well in V1.0, though I still have concerns about the dust. I plan to have it thoroughly cleaned before this heating season, after 2 dusty seasons of use. I chose radiant floor heating for V2.0 because the only time to install it is during initial construction, and it made financial sense here. Because of the divided nature of the new building, a single heat source like a Monitor would work less effectively, so several units would be required. This adds up quickly in cost, and suddenly a "real" heating plant makes sense. If I could get away with a single unit again, I'd do it in a second, as the cost is so much lower.

9. Insulating V1.0 was a miserable, exhausting task. I only did it because I couldn't find a company locally who would even quote the job; they were all so busy with contractors and big jobs that they didn't even care. For V2.0, I have already found a small guy who will do the insulating. They get their materials so cheaply that it hardly costs more at all to hire someone versus buying the materials myself.

10. It's never big enough.

11. One reason for the significant design changes--and resulting significant increase in building cost--of V2.0 is because I found myself moving from hobbyist to professional during the construction of the Daysailor (for which V1.0 was actually built). When the building suddenly becomes a necessary plant for paying work, with the need for professional quality and professional work environment, everything changes. There's no doubt that the first building inspired the initial change in focus for me, but now that that's occurred, I realize that I have more or less outgrown the V1.0, though I could make it work indefinitely if we weren't moving.

12. I considered metal, but stuck with stick framing because I have an excellent, reasonable builder who I trust implicitly, and because the cost was still reasonable for a wood building, once one factors in all the ancillary costs that they don't show you when you quote a metal building (foundation, erection, options, etc.).

13. I missed interior plumbing in V1.0, but it wasn't worth trying to hook into my septic system at that time. But a bathroom and sink was a must for V2.0. I originally planned a shower, but decided for several reasons that it was unnecessary and would be a waste of space in my situation.

14. The attached office will be nice to have, but I mainly decided to put it there so that I wouldn't have to waste space inside our new house with a dedicated office there. This opened up possibilities for the house.

15. This time, I planned ahead and ran a conduit beneath the slab for wiring to a table saw in the shop. In the first version, I ran an external conduit across the floor, which was/is a pain.

16. I'll wire everything with 20 amp cable in the new shop. It doesn't cost much more and gives all outlets a higher capacity.

17. I'm not yet sure what I'm going to do about lighting in the new building. I've been very disappointed in the performance of the midrange fluorescents in the current shop, which have been failing with ridiculous rapidity. Light failure is a major problem given how difficult they are to reach up at the ceiling, especially when boats are in the shop.

That's all I can think of for now, but there's probably more.
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Post by dasein668 »

Tim wrote:17. I'm not yet sure what I'm going to do about lighting in the new building. I've been very disappointed in the performance of the midrange fluorescents in the current shop, which have been failing with ridiculous rapidity. Light failure is a major problem given how difficult they are to reach up at the ceiling, especially when boats are in the shop.
At this point you should just go with big ol' mercury vapor stadium lighting...
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Post by Figment »

You'd save on the heat bill....
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Post by JetStream »

Please don't use mercury vapor lamps or any other lamp with a very high UV output. They will attract insects like crazy and you'll have a dickens of a time painting. I think if I had my druthers, I'd spec fluorescents with high frequency switching ballasts for long lamp life, coupled with wide spectrum lamps for good color rendition.
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Post by dasein668 »

JetStream wrote:Please don't use mercury vapor lamps or any other lamp with a very high UV output.
I was joking!
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Post by bcooke »

I was joking!
Note: Nathan is almost always joking.
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Post by Figment »

Tim wrote: 11. One reason for the significant design changes--and resulting significant increase in building cost--of V2.0 is because I found myself moving from hobbyist to professional during the construction of the Daysailor (for which V1.0 was actually built). When the building suddenly becomes a necessary plant for paying work, with the need for professional quality and professional work environment, everything changes. There's no doubt that the first building inspired the initial change in focus for me, but now that that's occurred, I realize that I have more or less outgrown the V1.0, though I could make it work indefinitely if we weren't moving.
That encapsulates things pretty well, I think. Use the right tool for the job.
Well, one could argue that you were stretching the definition of "hobbyist" even at the conception of v1.0, but that's niether here nor there. ;)

When shopping for light fixtures, look for units that go the extra mile toward keeping dust away from the lamps and contacts. I'm guessing that airborne dust caused much of your premature lamp failure trouble.
In the same vein, don't be afraid of stretching the fixture count a bit thin. You habitually keep a very clean shop. In lighting design terms, this is known as the RSDDF Room Surface Dirt Depreciation Factor. In industrial applications this is a 35% add to compensate for the diminished reflectivity caused by general grime accumulation. I think in your case 20-15% would be more appropriate.
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Post by Tim »

Figment wrote:In lighting design terms, this is known as the RSDDF Room Surface Dirt Depreciation Factor.
I can't believe there's a term for that! hehe

Of course, there's probably a whole magazine that exists for this, right? (There seems to be a magazine to cover every single specialized hobby, interest, or topic!)

As far as lighting goes, I am certainly interested in specific recommendations. I don't want to break the bank, but certainly don't want the junk that I currently have either. Besides, I'm so irritated at Home Depot (see thread on tools) that I will do whatever I can to never give them a dollars' business.
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Post by Robert The Gray »

I did not see any mention of a boom lift or crane or anything to help lift heavy things. Would you in the future have to flip any boats? or install any engines? I can't rember how you did it on the daysailer.

I would also think that as you increase your exposure to toxic fumes would there be any reason to have a dedicated resperator line of some sort? I honestly do not know if there is such a thing but I imagine a sort of full face resparatir with an overhead hose feed, like the old school divers with the lead shoes.

at the other end will there be a system wide waste removal system. vacume jack throughout the shop with a large collector outside. wait, you have snow O'yea.

I would do everything you could to eliminate horizontal surfaces where dust will be created. enclose the loft in plastic that can roll up like a big roller blind.

are skylights out of the question because of the snow, or possible heat gain?

Perhaps your framer can add a clerestory with operable windows.
that's $$$ I suppose.

kick ass stereo? use the supwoffer to knock all the dust down, settle the resins, flatten the drips on the paint? MAybe not you do have neighbors but they will have to get used to the saws.

Another thing that can happen here in CA, is that neighbors can complain if someone is making a lot of noise. They can also shut you down if you run an obvious business out of your home in a residentially zoned part of the city. If you go as far as printing business cards and paying local business taxes you might want to check out the zoning for your area and make sure that you can operate a commercial establishment from your house. This may all be academic in the wilds of Maine where people who make less than $500,00 a year can buy more that an acre.This may also be an obvious part of your thinking but I would hate to see the shop sit there unable to be used for purely legal reasons.

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Post by Tim »

Robert the Gray wrote:Another thing that can happen here in CA, is that neighbors can complain if someone is making a lot of noise. They can also shut you down if you run an obvious business out of your home in a residentially zoned part of the city.
Neighbors??? Zoning??? What are those things anyway? hehe

Rest assured that neither is an issue where I am.
Robert the Gray wrote:are skylights out of the question because of the snow, or possible heat gain?
I think any opening in the roof is an invitation to eventual leaks, so that's one reason. Also, with the trussed roof system and attic area, there would be no benefit to the shop areas if skylights were installed.
Robert the Gray wrote:I did not see any mention of a boom lift or crane or anything to help lift heavy things...
I have a couple ideas in the works, but whatever I end up with will be a portable system, rather than anything fixed inside the building itself. Portable=more versatile. Through some trustworthy local contacts, I am awaiting a quote from a local welder regarding some 10,000 lb. capacity gantry cranes on wheels (i.e. half a travelift). I'll start with one, but will probably have a second built so that I can lift entire boats. We'll see what the cost is first.
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Post by Allen »

Just curious Tim, between all your boats, web activities, and home projects, do you ever have time to sleep? ;)
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Post by Tim »

Believe it or not, yes!
hehe

I'm not much of one to just sit around, I guess.
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Post by chris Mele »

Best of luck with the new shop looks great. How about an insulated closet for the compressor? My hunch is your going to stick that in the mechanical room. Are you going to drywall this one?
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Post by Tim »

The mechanical room will be a perfect place for a compressor.

I don't expect any drywall here either, other than in the office; the white plastic has worked extremely well, is bright and reflective, and far easier to install than drywall. No complaints.
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Post by Tim »

Follow Along with the Shop Construction

Shop construction is now well underway! The walls are framed, and will probably be stood up in a week or so, along with the roof trusses. We hope to have the building more or less weathertight (roofed and fully sheathed) by the end of November.

I've posted, and will continue to post, details and photos at this link: New Shop Construction
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Post by JetStream »

Tim, the shop progress is awesome!! On the radiant floor heating, your site did not mention the plumber putting glycol in the heating loops. I'm assuming he did but thought I should check. If the heat plant broke down in the middle of a big freeze with no glycol in the pipes, that could be a major problem.
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Post by Tim »

Yes, there's glycol in the loops.
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Post by Figment »

Even without the freeze potential, they'd use a glycol solution. It's a longevity thing.
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