Deck re-core with a top layer of cloth.

[grampianman]

'More recently, I've had good luck working with the Gougeon Episize 15 oz. biax tape, which is quite smooth, wets out easily, and isn't overly thick since there's no mat on the back'. Tim, Deck Re-core, Dec. 9 2004

I've finished the recore of cabin top and deck and now have been looking at the very poor seams. I say poor because most of them had to be cut into the non skid tread pattern and there is no way to build those seams up without grinding out the non skid pattern. That said, I am planning on sanding/grinding the non skid pattern out and cover both deck and cabin in a layer of cloth to make for a clean seamless top. Tim, I see you have worked with 15 oz tape, but I haven't seen or have missed any specific cloth weight recommendations for covering decks on the forum. All layers are on the boat, ie wood core and top layer, and all I want to do is to make for a nice presentation to the eye. I'll use a paint on non-skid so I am not worried about the tread pattern.

Thanks for any/all suggestions.

As a note, I am not planning to cross the Atlantic in this little boat, so I am not looking for the heaviest of cloth weights.

Cheers, and thanks,
Ian
Wing & a Prayer, G-23

[dasein668]

I used 10oz cloth for my application of sealing up the old chipping gelcoat. This was basically a cosmetic layer, same as what you describe. The 10oz cloth was fine for that application.

You'll still have LOTS of fairing/surfacing to do though.

[Tim]

I covered the new plywood Daysailor deck with a layer of 15 oz. biax and a layer of 10 oz. cloth. This was more of a structural application, though the fiberglass alone isn't intended to provide all the strength.

A single layer of 10 oz. cloth should be good for what you're proposing. As Nathan said, prepare for lots of fairing to fill the weave!

Note that you can also fill the weave with multiple coats of rolled epoxy resin, too. Either way, there's plenty of work agead of you. Good luck!

[bcooke]

Looking at that picture all I can say is WOW!... I bet that dust bunny isn't dead after all and is just lurking in the shadows ready to strike.

I saw a plywood cockpit sole given a "layer" of fiberglass by a very experienced and well thought of boat carpenter recently. I have seen his woodwork, which is pretty good, and he is a genius with a chainsaw of all things. The thing is he chose polyester resin and matting to do the job with. I asked him why he was using matting instead of cloth and he told me that it is stronger because there is more resin in the mix than with cloth. I am not sure why but my instincts say that is all wrong. An epoxy resin and a layer or two of cloth would have been my choice for a floor covering.

Which one of us is crazy?

Either way, there's plenty of work agead of you. Good luck!

The good news is that when it is done and painted you are going to be amazed at how good you can make it look. Perservere, it will be worth it.

[dasein668]

Looking at that picture all I can say is WOW!... I bet that dust bunny isn't dead after all and is just lurking in the shadows ready to strike.

Oh, no. That picture is from January. I'm waaaaay past that. There will be one more nasty visit from the dust bunny when I have to sand the finish primer, but that's it.

Which one of us is crazy?

Hmmm. Well. You do have a Triton, don't you? I think you're both crazy!

No, I don't think more resin=stronger. Remember, we normally strive for a laminate that ISN'T resin-rich, after all. Resin-starved isn't good, of course, either.

[Figment]

eh, a nice thick resin-rich layer of mat might be just the thing for a cockpit floor, where impact resistance (dropped tools, winch handles, etc) is more of a concern than flexural strength.

Or maybe he had a hunk of mat leftover from another project.

[Tim]

Or maybe he had a hunk of mat leftover from another project.

That would be my guess. Mat has no strength or impact resistance, and neither does raw resin. And as a covering for raw plywood, mat and polyester is near criminal in its badness.

Mat and polyester are the hallmarks of a cheap, uncaring job, and his explanation the typical response low-end "professionals" use to wow us unsuspecting and obviously uninformed amateurs.

Steer clear of this "expert". He should stick to the chainsaw.

[dasein668]

An epoxy resin and a layer or two of cloth would have been my choice for a floor covering.

That, by the way, is exactly what I did for my cockpit sole. Two layers of 10oz glass in epoxy. Heavier glass would have been nice, but not necessary, in my opinion.

[bcooke]

I happen to know he had the owner buy the mat and resin just for that job. It is good to hear that my instincts are improving. I will feel better using my own judgement when the "experts" start giving me advice.

That, by the way, is exactly what I did for my cockpit sole

Great minds think alike! Now, you added a plywood core too didn't you? I am too lazy to look back through the threads. Was that because #668 didn't have a cored sole? Or am I confusing the project with something else and you "just" replaced the top skin.

-Britton

[dasein668]

Truth be told, it's becuase I'm lazy... sort of. I have a cored sole, and it is pretty severly rotted. But frankly I didn't really want to deal with cutting the thing out etc etc so I turned the top skin into the new bottom skin and whacked a new core on top. In this particular case (cockpit sole) it didn't seem to matter to me that the old core was still there, and this method had the added benefit of raising the height of the cockpit sole with respect to the waterline, giving just that little bit of extra clearance.

Ask Tim about the "standard" height of the cockpit sole, and what happens when six people are in the cockpit.

[Tim]

I also added core to my cockpit sole during Glissando's renovation, though I used 1/2" balsa wood. My sole was uncored originally, with only the cheesy glassed-in stiffener strips beneath. I'm not sure when Pearson changed to a cored cockpit sole, but it seems to be the later boats with the newer deck mold, like those in the mid and high 600s.

Cockpit Recore on Glissando

All you are doing in this instance is turning the old top skin into the new bottom skin. If the old coring inside the original sole continues to degenerate over the years, it really won't matter or harm anything, so in this particular case there's no real pitfall to leaving it there and coring over the top.

For success, the gelcoat should all be removed from the original sole before the core is applied.

The additional 1/2" or 3/4" does help with preventing some of the nuisance water from entering the cockpit when people are relaxing there, or when heeled over. It can be the difference between having your feet in a puddle or remaining dry, when entertaining. Historically, Glissando tends to end up being the cockpit of choice for impromptu cocktail parties, so we have often tested the scuppers' abilities.

I imagine the gatherings in my cockpit are because people are drawn to my scintillating personality, but there's a disturbing voice in my head that says it must be too coincidental that I also have lots of Mount Gay and munchies on board too. Nah...it's gotta be my charming visage.

[bcooke]

it didn't seem to matter to me that the old core was still there

So you are comfortable knowing there is mushy balsa and rot under your feet.... Hmmm. That wouldn't work for me. I get all itchy when I think of it. Of course you have done a lot more than me and maybe you have a developed a better sense of perspective. I was left with a big hole where a steering column used to be and I could see the stuff oozing out so I never questioned what to do. I also wanted the "practice" and figured it was a good location to screw up on. If I did a really bad job then I could always just add another layer on top like you did.
If I find my feet getting wet I just might do it anyway.

I am not planning to cross the Atlantic in this little boat

Yeah, but a Gulf stream must be quite tempting and I hear it can be rough sometimes. I hear you though. No sense making a boat into what it was never designed for... wait a minute, I need to listen to my own advice!

-Britton

[grampianman]

Thanks for all the good comments. I'll keep you updated. I'm off with my Scout troop tomorrow for four days on an island in the Caloosahatchee, near Ft. Myers, Florida. I hope to give sailing lessons with my Dolphin senior. Nights mid-fifties, days mid-eighties, seven Scouts!

Cheers,
Ian

[dasein668]

So you are comfortable knowing there is mushy balsa and rot under your feet....

In this particular case, yes, absolutely. The mush is completely isolated from the rest of the core on the boat due to its location, and is now sealed up. Would it have been better to cut it out? Yes. Was it necessary? No. Essentially I've just written off the core and bottom-most skin. But it will not do any damage to anything else so...

Frankly, I have no concerns about my ability to recore a boat, so I have NO interest whatsoever in the idea of "practice" just for the sake of saying "I have done it." If I have to recore somewhere at some point, I have no qualms whatsoever about diving right in. But I'm not out looking for any MORE work right now than I already have created for myself!

[dasein668]

I imagine the gatherings in my cockpit are because people are drawn to my scintillating personality, but there's a disturbing voice in my head that says it must be too coincidental that I also have lots of Mount Gay and munchies on board too. Nah...it's gotta be my charming visage.

Yeah, charming visage. Yeah, that's it.

No, Tim, I'm sorry to say that I think it's becuase you actually manage to keep ICE onboard!

[dasein668]

Britton et al.;

That second paragraph up there seems awfully b*tchy now that I reread it. It was actually supposed to be funny, but may not come off that way. Please take it in that light! hehe

Another long day at the boat!

[bcooke]

I don't know how many times I have re-read one of my posts and winced. (one quite recently actually) It always sounds good when you are writing it. That said I didn't interpret anything other than humor in your post. I think your mentor may be driving you too hard.

Speaking of mentors, I was at the Maine boatbuilders show today and saw a canvas shop using a familiar boat to show off their work. Tim and his boat are everywhere it seems these days.

-Britton

[dasein668]

Well, geez, why didn't you stop by the barn and do a little varnish work? We were hard at it today.

[bcooke]

Ian are you trying to make us jealous with the weather report? I will have you know I actually had my jacket off for a few minutes today and was enjoying the direct sunshine. Remember, when teaching, you are supposed to let the students try sailing too.

-Britton

[Tim]

Yeah, charming visage. Yeah, that's it.

No, Tim, I'm sorry to say that I think it's becuase you actually manage to keep ICE onboard!

Rats. I really thought it was all about me. Shoot. Well, you really burst my bubble.

[bcooke]

why didn't you stop by the barn and do a little varnish work [?]

Well, I would have loved to but
1.) I thought you guys would be at the show.
2.) I went with some others and they were anxious to see the show and get home quick.
3.) Seeing your boats all freshly varnished and then looking at my boat still under the tarp would make me cry.

How about in the next week or two? You must be getting close to reinstalling deck hardware. That can take a couple pairs of hands.

-Britton

P.S. Mount Gay without the charming visage and conversation to go with it can be rather dull and pointless.

[dasein668]

Well, actually reinstalling stuff is a bit off still. We are shooting primer next week (week of May 27) then I'll need to position and drill everything, but I won't actually be installing stuff until after the final paint is on.

I'm sure that ONE of us can find SOMETHING for you to do though! hehe The daysailor's bottom still needs some grinding, I think, for example!

[bcooke]

The daysailor's bottom still needs some grinding, I think, for example!

Oh man!... That is exactly what I am doing to feed myself these days - bottom sanding someone else's boat. Just when I thought I would never see another bottom again...

-Britton