Triton480 Deck Recore

This is the place to post your ideas, thoughts, questions and comments as relates to general boatbuilding and reconstruction techniques and procedures (i.e. recoring, epoxy, fiberglass, wood, etc.)
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Steve480

Triton480 Deck Recore

Post by Steve480 »

I've been a frequent visitor to Tim's boat-building and restoration sites, but this is my first post. Hi to everyone. For me, it's been a long time of taking and not giving, so I'm glad that I can finally bring something to the table to share. This is the account of our Triton's deck recore project that is still in progress. The professional-grade builders and restorers here might cringe at some of my boat repair inexperience and mistakes, but I offer it up to the collective experience that is growing here. Hopefully, there will be some value in that for others.
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This was our first glimpse of the Triton #480 before we owned it. It wasn't yet for sale, but it caught our attention.

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Her ?maiden voyage? as a member of our family.

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I used a Dremel tool to cut the small nooks and crannies of the deck topskin that the circular saw couldn't reach.

I thought that making the first big cut in the deck would be difficult mentally, but actually it was a bit of a relief. I had nearly memorized Tim's account of Glissando's deck recore. I read and reread about Atom's new deck, Don Casey's recommendations in 'This Old Boat', the Triton website newsgroup, and West System's repair manual. The feeling was a little like the pain you feel when you have to dig for a sliver or splinter that is buried in your finger. It hurts but it feels good to be finally doing something about the problem.

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This is what we were greeted to when we lifted the topskin panels.

What we found beneath the deck panels was disintegrated wet balsa mush from bow to stern. The previous owner had done a nice job of redoing the forward cabin roof around the mast and the moisture reader determined this area to be dry so we didn't touch this area. The big cabin roof was dry on the port side but saturated on the starbd side so we removed most of the SB topside as well. I accidentally cut a portion of the cabin roof panel that was still dry and discovered how tenacious and strong the balsa-cored fiberglass bond is when it is dry. We divided the side decks into three somewhat equal pieces and the foredeck into two big triangular pieces. The topskin panels were not in perfect shape and were slightly deformed in some places from an apparent earlier recoring project where epoxy had been injected under the skin in large amounts. In the end, however, we decided that the skins were in good enough shape to reuse rather than creating new skins from scratch. We also thought this would save us a little time and money. We left the plywood spine in the foredeck as it was still in good shape and had completely dried after being exposed.

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Cleanup of the bottom skin wasn't too difficult because the core had separated so completely from it. Only a few small areas resisted when we lifted the panels, one of which caused us to actually tear the bottom skin. Note the tear at the starbd bow.

After a fair amount of research, and then tossing a coin, we had decided to go with balsa instead of some of the other available core materials. 1/4" end-grain contour-cut was used instead of the original 3/8" with the idea that we would put down 2 layers of well-saturated CSM (chopped strand mat) on both sides of the balsa. CSM was used because of its reputed ability to create a very watertight bond while being very resistant to delamination. Its lack of tensile strength didn?t seem to be as much of an issue in this application. We cut all the balsa and mat, set them aside, and then began applying the epoxy. The constant stream of fresh air helped while doing the epoxy work and none of us seemed to be bothered while working with it. Mixing the colloidal silica was another story. The slightest movement from the mixing stick would send it flying into the air. Keeping it out of our lungs was a concern and a challenge.

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We precut all the balsa and mat, I.D.'d them with a pencil and set them aside. (Note to self: Remember to cut out hardware attachment areas in the balsa that will receive cloth and epoxy.)

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We tried our best to make sure that all surfaces were thoroughly wetted out before adding any thickened epoxy. (Note to self: Remember to cut out hardware attachment areas in the balsa that will receive cloth and epoxy.)

The cored-out narrow tab running along the toe rail was wetted and then filled with thickened structural epoxy. The same was done to the inner tab. We then began laying down mat and balsa, panel by panel. We screwed the balsa down into the bottom skin with drywall screws and then finished saturating the topside of the balsa. Small washers were used to gain hold of the balsa, otherwise the screw head went right through the soft wood. Stanchion areas, etc, received cloth and epoxy instead of balsa. (Actually, some of these spots received both. The cured epoxy, mat and balsa had to be chiseled out.) Once the epoxy had cured, a small wood chisel was used to pop off the washers after removing the screws. The idea of using bags of water-softener salt for weighting down panels came from a sailing friend and it seemed to work well on the cabin roof panel where I didn't want to drill any holes because of the cabin liner. A small piece of plywood and some 2x4?s were used underneath for bracing. All of this work was being done outside with only the protection of a couple of plastic tarps, so we kept a close eye to the weather and then made sure that things were well sealed up on the boat before we left for home on Sunday evenings.

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The last step for this phase of the project was to remove the drywall screws and seal the holes up with epoxy.

When the epoxy had cured we removed the amine blush and sanded the surface in preparation for the next two layers of mat and topskin. Panel by panel, we layed down more mat and the topskin. Drywall screws were drilled through the topskin to anchor it firmly into the bed of thickened epoxy and mat. The port bow triangle panel was the last piece to go down. It would be such a relief to finally have the boat sealed up again. With the bed of mat and epoxy waiting and soon to be setting up I took hold of the big wet panel being handed up to me by my wife and carefully placed it down into the epoxy. In my excitement and haste to be finished with this phase of the project I forgot to double check that the panel would fit while things were still dry. If I had checked I would have discovered that the previous panels had worked their way up toward the bow so that this last piece would not fit. It was only about 1/16-1/8" but it was still enough to prevent the panel from completely dropping in. With the epoxy nearly kicking and a friend stopping by to chat and to see how things were going, I scanned the area for the Dremel tool. While carrying on a semi-coherent conversation I dremeled off a thin sliver of panel along one edge. The panel dropped in place and was screwed down. We were almost done!
...Well, with this portion of the project anyway. We were getting into the season where snow would soon be coming. The following weekend we removed the screws, sealed up the screw holes and took care of a few other projects. The weekend after that we double checked everything and tied down the tarps for the last time. The rest of this project would have to wait until spring. Next on the list would be grinding and taping of the panel seams, fairing the decks, applying non-skid and painting. Also on the growing list: new chain plates and rigging, rebuilt or replaced mast beam, seacocks, lexan ports, new rudder to replace the soggy fiberglass-wrapped old one, new stern rail... the list goes on.

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Our Halsey Herreshoff '78 Chrysler22 was our weekend home away from home while we worked on the Triton. After a long day of recoring it was a small bit of heaven for us to shower up at the marina facilities and then sit in the Chrysler's cockpit with a beverage while watching the summer sunsets and enjoying each other's company. An occasional daysail or weekend out with it reminded us why we were slaving away on the Triton. I'm not too proud to say that the Chrysler22 has been a much-loved member of our family almost as long as we've been a family, and once again she was doing what she could to help out. Here it is seen anchored in one of the bays of western Lake Superior.


Some notes and a few other thoughts...

1. I originally hoped to find a place to work on the boat that was very close to where we live and then to have the boat hauled to its new location. There seemed to be one obstacle after another to this approach in terms of additional costs and scheduling so we finally decided to drive the two hours every weekend to where the boat was currently standing. Although we've made it work so far, a sheltered worksite closer to home would be ideal and is something that needs pursuing.

2. A moisture reading device is a nifty tool. We were able to determine quickly and early-on the extent of the core damage on this boat without doing exploratory drilling. Before we cut, however, I did do some core drilling just to confirm things. I suppose I should emphasize that the moisture reader didn't detect core damage or disintegrated balsa. It only detected moisture.

3. On-going lists (supply, scheduling, to-do, purchasing) were extremely helpful. My memory alone was definitely not up to the demands of this project. With our home and boat being two hours apart the logistics were difficult to say the least. If I forget a tool while working on a project around the house I just go down to the basement workshop or garage to get it. If I forgot a tool or material at home it could bring the boat work to a screeching halt. The threat of back-ordered supplies was another reason I tried to be organized and somewhat ahead of the work at hand.

4. Somewhere along the way while applying the upper mat layers and topskin I discovered that the recommendation to use CSM and epoxy for recoring, as described in Don Casey's 'This Old Boat', had been rescinded in a later book he wrote on hull and deck repairs. Apparently there could be adhesion problems. I contacted West Systems about my recoring situation and was directed to an article they had published on the subject.
http://www.epoxyworks.com/21/index21.html
Their willingness to help was most encouraging and appreciated. Fortunately, we had done what seemed to be the most important aspect of using CSM with epoxy: making sure that the mat was completely saturated. That seemed to be the crux of the matter more than the soluble styrene binder issue. CSM isn't an easy material to work with and epoxy-starved bonds are common. At the time, I sometimes wondered if we were overdoing it with the amount of epoxy being used because I knew that excessively epoxy-rich laminates weren?t desirable. But now I felt relieved and more hopeful that we had found the ?sweet spot? with the amount of epoxy being used. While I probably wouldn?t use the CSM/epoxy combination for a deck recore project again, I feel fairly confident that the deck will hold up well for us. When all is said and done there is probably more than one way to do most jobs well, or at least satisfactorily, and each technique will have its advantages and disadvantages. Time will tell.
By the way, I think ?This Old Boat? is a wonderful book and I?ve learned much from Don Casey and his other books as well. I mention this CSM/epoxy experience as an example that the science of repairing old fiberglass boats is still evolving.

5. Having a marathon runner's attitude is helpful. I'm not a marathon runner, but I'm quite certain they have a different attitude than a sprinter has. The excitement of that first big cut on the deck quickly disappeared and the project became more of a teeth gritting, nose to the grindstone kind of thing. A sequence of small attainable goals became the mindset for me.

6. Materials and approx. quantities used so far:
8.5 gal West System epoxy w/ 206 slow hardener
20 oz West 406 colloidal silica filler
5 oz West 404 high-density filler

7. First cut: end of July, '04
Last screw hole filled: October, '04

8. Although the deck is still unfinished and not much to look at, it is a very beautiful thing to walk on now. I'm really looking forward to the completion of this project. It's going to be one thing for the deck to look good while the boat is sitting in its cradle. It's going to be something else for it to look good after sailing hard on the water for a few years. I especially look forward to that time to see how we've fared.

9. I want to thank Tim for the incredible boat-building and restoration sites that he's so generously put on the internet for all to enjoy and learn from. For me, they've also been a place to come for inspiration when, frankly, I needed some. Thanks go to the others here who've shared their experiences and websites. There is no way we would have tackled the Triton project without this help.
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Rachel
Master of the Arcane
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Thanks!

Post by Rachel »

Steve,

Thanks for such an informative post. I guess you didn't have to second-guess your project after seeing that old balsa!

Since I'm Triton shopping, I just may be getting into such a project, and it was great to see your progress photos and read the notes.

Nice photo of your Chrysler 22 - I'm going to take a guess and say Devil's Island, Lake Superior :-)

I'll bet you can't wait to finish up this summer.

--- Rachel
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Tim
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Boat Name: Glissando
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Whitefield, ME
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Post by Tim »

Steve,

Nice job, and great writeup of your experiences. I appreciate the time you took to put this essay together, and it will surely help others in the future!
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Steve480

Post by Steve480 »

Thanks for the kind words. I'll post the rest of this project later this coming summer. Hopefully there won't be any photos that show where the grinder got away from me and took out part of the toerail.
Rachel, that last pic could easily have been Devil's Island, but it was a bay near Cornucopia. Good luck with your boat search.
Figment
Damned Because It's All Connected
Posts: 2846
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
Boat Name: Triton
Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
Location: L.I. Sound

Post by Figment »

Allow me to add my thanks for the writeup.

I'm still in the middle of it all, and it felt really good to read that.
Steve480

Post by Steve480 »

Likewise, Figment. I've enjoyed reading about your work. Hope all is going well. Your shelter experience blew me away. Pardon the pun. Whoa.
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